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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 19:25:45 GMT -6
While it is isn't the Clock Tower theme, there is a version of Bloody Tears used in Dawn of Sorrow. If we're talking about Bloody Tears outside of the "clock tower" context, then although I champion the music from Super Castlevania IV, my personal favorite incarnation is in Rondo of Blood; that beginning pipe organ midi just sounds too perfect.
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 19:09:00 GMT -6
As far as the intricate details of the landscapes are concerned, they are really helping to get me pumped about the settings; especially the beautiful portrait of the castle. As far as incarnations of Miriam thus far, I am quite partial to this one:
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 18:58:47 GMT -6
Even without the sword or the tattoos, it looks rather well crafted!
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 18:55:16 GMT -6
These sprites are actually quite excellent. Keep up this kind of work; you say that you are, at present, an amateur, but that can be polished over time. I'd love to play a game of yours!
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 18:50:34 GMT -6
Bravo! I can't tell you how hard that gif made me laugh. Kudos!
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 17:39:49 GMT -6
Out of the IGAvania games, Tragic Prince is the best arranged with the best midi sounds, and that is the only reason why it wins for me. Were it not for that, the rest do have some great potential if they were to be rearranged for a console that supported a better range of sounds.
Were it not for this vote to be restricted to IGAvania games, I would have picked Bloody Tears from Super Castlevania IV.
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 17:17:26 GMT -6
That's awesome! I remember how excited I was the first time I played Castlevania: Chronicles and saw the IGA interview featured in it!
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 16:59:55 GMT -6
Kudos for taking the time to research this! How fascinating!
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 16:57:10 GMT -6
So far, I actually love all of the concept art that's been provided.
At first, I was a bit averse to accept the idea of historically inaccurate clothing, which seemed to be a continuing theme for every Castlevania game with the exception of Symphony of the Night (I'm a history buff), but I very quickly changed my mind when I realized: 1. This is a fantasy game that is not set in our perception of the real world. 2. They look flippin' awesome.
I can't wait to see the rest!
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 16:50:20 GMT -6
Excellent job!
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 16:48:52 GMT -6
Is it known if the t-shirt featured in the kickstarter is the final design or not? Is is still up for discussion?
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 16:29:37 GMT -6
Thank you for your time, effort, and creativity! We are grateful, IGA-san!
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 15:49:25 GMT -6
This idea actually makes me feel very excited! I hope Igarashi reads this!
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Post by aindriu on Sept 1, 2015 1:56:29 GMT -6
Interesting question, aindriu Due to the nature of the game, though (Gebel being a villain) I think most conversations will turn to him eventually. I could see a female shopkeep passing the Bechdel Test, though, chatting with Miriam about spells and weapons and stuff. Just one bit of dialogue would do the trick; not an all-encompassing theme looming and dictating the direction of the game itself, of course. Sounds like something that wouldn't be needed at all. If characters are going to be around to talk be made and/or talk to each other it should be something that happens naturally, not something that happens because the need to fill a quota. I'm really hating the current trend of people trying to shoehorn stuff like this into video games. This doesn't mean that im opposed to more female characters, what I'm opposed to is people trying shove stuff specifically like this everywhere nowadays. All this would do is limit what characters could and couldn't talk about as there are plot important male characters and it would make sense for them to be brought up in conversations due to whatever reason. That is unless im completely misunderstanding what this is about. Then by all means feel free to correct me. The point of being able to pass the Bechdel test wouldn't be to hinder the narrative and change the entire direction of the game. The only thing it needs to have in order to pass the Bechdel Test is one conversation. The new Mad Max, for example, passes the Bechdel Test with flying colors. The reason why this is important thing to include for many people is that women often aren't depicted in narratives as having any internal drives beyond that of a male character. Though "getting the girl" is often the motive for many a male's role, in narratives, men often concentrate on other things, have other friends of the same gender, and don't exclusively talk about women. True female representation in entertainment is thin. At present, it appears as though Miriam is the only female character. The fact that the game revolves around a female protagonist is pretty damn progressive and awesome in and of itself, so that's cool. Also, I am not saying that the game will automatically be a piece of garbage for not passing the Bechdel Test; I'm sure the game will be excellent regardless, but it would just be cool is all. I mean, this game, already, has broken ground in many different ways, so why not tick one more bit of progressive awesomeness to the list? I think it'd be a good idea and I'd like to see more women in the Bloodstained, especially since Miriam is the only woman revealed at this point. But I also don't want the Bechdel test to be mistaken as a seal of quality. It's a good thing to keep in mind, but there also needs to be a good story/script/translation/localization to go with it as well, happen naturally as part of the story and the characters need to be well-rounded and developed in their own right. Otherwise, the Bechdel test seems like a step on a checklist and feels like something to brag about ("look at how significant we are!"). I'd like there to be a female shopkeeper who's similar to Zoidberg from Futurama. Some sort of monster or creature that's down on their luck, poor, overjoyed when anything is being bought, gives quips/comments on what's being purchased, and feels sad if the player talks to them without buying anything. Oh, yes of course. A thing still has the potential to be rubbish even if it passes the Bechdel Test; it's no official seal of quality. I mean, the 50 Shades of Grey movie technically passes the Bechdel test, but that doesn't make it good. I think IGA said he wanted to have at least six major characters over the course of the narrative. With Miriam, Gebel, Johannes and Zangetsu, we still have at least two slots left. Being set in England/Europe, I'm thinking a Witch character (Harry Potter, Little Witch Academia vibes) might be super cool. Or perhaps a true scientist to contrast Johannes and his alchemy. I recall IGA saying Zangetsu was originally a knight instead of a samurai so if he still wanted a knight character that could be a direction to go. There are a lot of ways to go about it. Sounds like something that wouldn't be needed at all. If characters are going to be around to talk be made and/or talk to each other it should be something that happens naturally, not something that happens because the need to fill a quota. I'm really hating the current trend of people trying to shoehorn stuff like this into video games. This doesn't mean that im opposed to more female characters, what I'm opposed to is people trying shove stuff specifically like this everywhere nowadays. All this would do is limit what characters could and couldn't talk about as there are plot important male characters and it would make sense for them to be brought up in conversations due to whatever reason. That is unless im completely misunderstanding what this is about. Then by all means feel free to correct me. The Bechdel Test doesn't say that two women can't ever talk about a man, just that they have to be able to do something, anything else. It's just a demonstration that the women are actual characters in themselves with their own goals and aren't just reflections of or satellites that orbit the male characters in question. It's not really a limitation because, honestly, if your narrative can't even pass the Bechdel Test, then you are barely even trying. Like it takes no effort at all to pass. So little effort in fact that many pieces of work that do pass the test, still have big problems with overt or subconscious sexism. Works that pass the Bechdel Test can still paint women in a bad light. At the end of the day, all the OP is asking for is for more prominent female characters in the Bloodstained narrative. An academic witch character would be fantastic!! And yes, thank you for elaborating on the general purpose of the Bechdel Test. It's just a demonstration that the women are actual characters in themselves with their own goals and aren't just reflections of or satellites that orbit the male characters in question. See I disagree with this because its natural for characters to talk about other characters, regardless of gender. It shouldn't matter if a character is male or female, black or white. People give too much focus to stuff like this. Developers shouldn't have to include things like this in video games unless it something they did naturally without the intent to fill some quota. Regardless of how good your intent is you can ALWAYS tell if it was done just for the sake of having it in. Personally it feels disingenuous to me. My problem here is that you feel like they HAVE to pass some test. If they're going to do it they should do it without having to be told to do so. It is totally natural for characters to talk about characters regardless of gender, but there TONS of narratives that, as simple as it may seem to include, don't pass the Bechdel Test; there aren't two female characters, both with names, whom talk about a subject that isn't a man. I've never had a real hard time with finding ways to empathize or identify with any given character in any video game, but women, although considerably statistically active in gaming, still feel polarized in an industry where, mainly, men get to make up stories without the courtesy of giving much though to the character development of the female characters. Sure, things are changing A LOT, and sure, even if Miriam ends up being the only girl, the game is sure to be completely awesome. It would just be nice is all. Like, literally all it would take is a female merchant and Miriam talking about business for a line or two. That wouldn't be too obvious or pushy, I feel. I don't think folks are saying the game HAS to pass the Bechdel test, Dvv The OP said it might be cool, and other folks are saying it might be nice. Nobody's saying its a requirement or a dealbreaker. I agree that having characters to fill a quota wouldn't be good, but if they can add a couple more interesting female characters in an organic way, I think that's something to shoot towards. Like they mentioned in the PAX panel, everybody loves demon-butt-kicking heroines Hear, hear.
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Post by aindriu on Aug 31, 2015 13:38:15 GMT -6
Although having a female protagonist is pretty cool in and of itself, it would also be cool if the game could also pass the Bechdel Test; Two women, both with names, who have a conversation with one another that isn't about a male character. It wouldn't be hard to do, it wouldn't have to be polarizing and all-consuming, and I think it would help to push the demographic even further.
The other female character could be a villain or rival. Maybe even an alternate universe version of Miriam. A relative, perhaps? A goddess trapped within a bound shine inside the demon castle, whom acts as a helper? Fairy Godmother? Her combat trainer in flashbacks?
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Post by aindriu on Aug 27, 2015 23:26:13 GMT -6
*snugles Aindriu contentedly* It's what I do Thank you for being nice as well! But anyways, to make sure I understand your position: You contend that being gothic specifically (as opposed to just general horror) means you have to combine the romanticism present in 18th to 19th century literature *along with* dread, supernatural stuff, ominous happenings, etc. present in horror fiction. As you say, the best way to do this would be to use 18th and 19th century style music as well (specifically Baroque, Classical, and maybe Opera), but then you also say that a more contemporary for that's also suitable for this purpose is Metal. You also say that Jazz is less relatable to the 18th/19th century time periods we're looking at, which is understandable, since Bloodstained also takes place in the 19th century (I think--Industrial Revolution-era Europe, right?). However, I still question whether that makes it less appropriate than Metal for use in Bloodstained. You say "one genre that is inherently ominous is metal," but I'm not sure I agree. I can think of several metal songs which are inspiring, uplifting, or even romantic (in terms of love, not Romanticism) rather than ominous. For instance, Judas Priests's "Another Thing Comin'," which seems like the sort of thing to pump you up and excite you rather than scare you. You also say Metal is considered the "devil's music," but IIRC one of the reasons for that is that it uses the tritone, which (according to Wikipedia) was referred to as "diabolis in musica" or something similar, according to Wikipedia at least. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on either point, but why wouldn't one be able to make a Jazz tune with the 'diabolic' tritone or an ominous minor chord? You're right to say that Metal owes a lot compositionally to Classical, but so does Jazz--IIRC, Ken Burns went so far as to call Duke Ellington "America's Mozart" in his documentary on the artform! So I'm not sure Jazz is much less Classical than Metal is. Anyways, have a good sleep, we'll all be here when you wake up After all this, I must give my concession. I got drunk earlier tonight and played (and beat) Super Castlevania IV. There are more than one jazzier tunes, and even so, there isn't a single song I had a problem with. I guess it just depends on the composition.
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Post by aindriu on Aug 27, 2015 10:38:42 GMT -6
Hello! I am Aindriú, and I've funded $250 to this project. I've generally come to feel rather averse to online forums, but considering that this one is in direct relation to something that I have put not only a financial, but a personal investment into, I decided to make an exception. So far, this has been an exceptionally pleasant experience! I've engaged in a debate with one or two other members, but in a respectful and pleasant way that did not convey anything but sincere intellectual respect. As for my experience with the Castlevania series...: • I have played and beaten every game made for a purchasable format. • When I was 4, I remember distinctly playing the first Castlevania game for the NES (I'm old), though my concept of linear progression was still developing. • Having bought and played Super Castlevania IV for the SNES when it was first released, I never beat it until I was 13, immediately after my girlfriend at the time broke up with me. Best and quickest emotional transcendence ever. • My top 5 favorite Castlevania games are... 1. Super Castlevania IV2. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night3. Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (I know a lot of people didn't like it) 4. Castlevania: Bloodlines 5. Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow • My top 5 least favorite Castlevania games are... 1. Castlevania:Judgement (What the HELL was that?!) 2. Castlevania: Dracula X (The SNES version of Rondo of Blood) 3. Castlevania (N64) 4. Castlevania: Lament of Innocence 5. Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin (Was this story necessary?)
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Post by aindriu on Aug 27, 2015 10:32:51 GMT -6
*snugles Aindriu contentedly* It's what I do Thank you for being nice as well! But anyways, to make sure I understand your position: You contend that being gothic specifically (as opposed to just general horror) means you have to combine the romanticism present in 18th to 19th century literature *along with* dread, supernatural stuff, ominous happenings, etc. present in horror fiction. As you say, the best way to do this would be to use 18th and 19th century style music as well (specifically Baroque, Classical, and maybe Opera), but then you also say that a more contemporary for that's also suitable for this purpose is Metal. You also say that Jazz is less relatable to the 18th/19th century time periods we're looking at, which is understandable, since Bloodstained also takes place in the 19th century (I think--Industrial Revolution-era Europe, right?). However, I still question whether that makes it less appropriate than Metal for use in Bloodstained. You say "one genre that is inherently ominous is metal," but I'm not sure I agree. I can think of several metal songs which are inspiring, uplifting, or even romantic (in terms of love, not Romanticism) rather than ominous. For instance, Judas Priests's "Another Thing Comin'," which seems like the sort of thing to pump you up and excite you rather than scare you. You also say Metal is considered the "devil's music," but IIRC one of the reasons for that is that it uses the tritone, which (according to Wikipedia) was referred to as "diabolis in musica" or something similar, according to Wikipedia at least. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on either point, but why wouldn't one be able to make a Jazz tune with the 'diabolic' tritone or an ominous minor chord? You're right to say that Metal owes a lot compositionally to Classical, but so does Jazz--IIRC, Ken Burns went so far as to call Duke Ellington "America's Mozart" in his documentary on the artform! So I'm not sure Jazz is much less Classical than Metal is. Anyways, have a good sleep, we'll all be here when you wake up Daww, you! Yes, that is a good summary of my perspective on the matter. And, very true; not all metal in and of itself is a good candidate for "gothic" themes. There are many different subgeneres of metal that do not coincide with the gothic context; hairband metal, redneck metal, nu metal, or death metal (death metal being akin to the difference between horror and "gothic", more or less) aren't really ways to convey a gothic theme. However, the one thing that all metal has in common is that it is generally considered a darker music genre from its inception (Black Sabbath), so that is how it differs from jazz and makes it easier to apply gothic themes; by association, metal is already amenable to the themes if the individual band or musician is wanting to take things to a gothic direction. This is something that I don't see with jazz. Although it is an exceptionally expressive and diverse music genre, it isn't a genre that, like metal, is easily accommodating to gothic themes. If one were to take the Bela Lugosi Dracula, The Innocents, or even Nosferatu, and if one had to impose a modern score upon them, jazz could potentially work, but I feel it would be more like an avant grade approach rather than a comfortable fit. On the other hand, I feel that jazz would be a perfect fit if imposed on, say, Fritz Lang's Metropolis. It's an old silent movie that has lots of German Experssionist techniques used to convey gothic narratives, but the story is set in a 1927's view of a not-to-distant future in which jazz was still the newest form of musical expression; It's totally perfect.
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Post by aindriu on Aug 27, 2015 10:02:44 GMT -6
Do you mean this? If yes, thanks for explaining until I could understand your point of view. This is one of my less favorite songs, while I don't dislike it I've never felt like it should be a entrance theme, since you would need to hear it a lot of times because of backtracking and it just feels boring after a long play. This one always felt like Final Fantasy Tactics to me: But even so, there is a lot of music from Portrait of ruin that I like a lot, Jail of Jewels for example. Yes, it is to Invitation of a Crazed Moon that I am specifically referring to. It was my first impression and the only lasting one. Agreed, Operation "VK" does sound similar to something from FF Tactics, but I feel that FF Tactics had a bit more to offer as far as atmosphere and complexity. Operation "VK" feels underwhelming, especially for a boss battle theme. Jail of Jewels is admittedly excellent, and I think part of that is due to the fact that it feels like a conventional Castlevania leitmotif. I suppose I overlooked this one due to, as I stated, the first impression of Invitation of a Crazed Moon.
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Post by aindriu on Aug 27, 2015 1:03:26 GMT -6
Fair enough, though I think it may be a little early to worry about that just yet...there's no guarantee any jazz (or pop, swing, etc.) will show up in Bloodstained I wouldn't be surprised if one or two jazzy tracks showed up, but I think it's a fair bet the OST, when released, won't be full of nothing but jazz. I agree, that would be inappropriate, since diversity is a good thing in music I can totally abide with one or two jazzier songs in the same way that I did with Symphony of the Night, so that's no worry. I just hope it doesn't go the way of Portrait of Ruin is all.
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