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Post by anonthemouse on Jun 27, 2019 10:00:06 GMT -6
Welcome to Part 2 of what is now my "How they could be better" series. This time around, I want to take a look at weapon techniques. I feel like this is going to a bit more of a divisive topic than my Blue Chests topic was. Some people like the weapon techniques as they are. That's perfectly fine. However, I personally feel that this system wasn't all that it could be, and many besides myself have expressed frustration or disappointment with the system. So let's start by breaking down the three main issues... #1, Integration; To put it simply (or perhaps bluntly) weapon techniques feel a bit like they were tacked on, added to the game solely for the sake of being there. They don't seem to have been given the same attention that other systems were, and while every other aspect of the game is used in some way - you'll have to use different weapons and shards to progress, while cooking and alchemy are tied to side quests - weapon techniques exist in a vacuum. You never need them, and the rewards for using them are tied only to their own mechanics - you master a technique to use it with more weapons. Techniques exist in the game, but don't really feel like an essential part of the game. #2, Mastery; The second issue ties into the first, but has some added problems of its own. Mastering techniques just feels unsatisfying. For one thing, it's almost painfully slow. Maybe there's a trick to it, but I personally found that it took both the books that speed up mastery just to get the rate to something I thought felt reasonable for a base level. Even then, enemies will tend to be very uncooperative for practising techniques on, either dying too quickly or hitting the player while they try to pull off the technique they don't have down yet. I personally had to wait until I had every shard, so that I had access to a certain item and the ability to hold enemies in place indefinitely for use as a punching bag, before I could really start mastering techniques. Even then, the rewards for the work put in aren't much. As far as I can tell, mastery doesn't make a technique stronger, it just opens up what weapons you can use it with - which by extension means that if you want to master a certain technique, you're locked into using specific weapons until you do. #3, Reward; This is probably the broadest category, covering in general how it feels to use techniques. The first thing I noticed about techniques is that the inputs feel very precise. I, along with others, have trouble pulling off these moves reliably, even with practice. This further frustrates mastery, and makes techniques feel inconvenient compared to shards. As well, many techniques have a significant wind-up, and they are easily interrupted, especially compared to the instant-cast of shards. These two factors alone can produce a frustrating sense of "all that work for nothing" when trying to use a difficult technique, only to have it interrupted. However, on top of that, many techniques feel low powered when compared to shards. As an example from my own play, on the Minerva, I found myself using the Dominus (a sword obtained from a special name selection), and compared using the weapon blast sword technique to my Cerulean Splash. It quickly became apparent that the shard was always the better option. If I was going to spend MP either way, it might as well be on the one that was faster, easier, and more damaging. Beyond that, though, as I said in my previous point, techniques don't improve unless your weapon does. Just fighting my way through Seemas on the galleon increased the Grade and therefore damage of Cerulean Splash, but to improve the sword blast I would have had to not only find a better sword, but also to stick with the sword I had until I had mastered the technique to ensure I could use it with whatever sword I got. So, what can be done? What follows are my ideas for improving techniques. Some may not work together, they're in no particular order, and some or all might need to wait for a sequel to happen. However, I feel that improving even a few of these areas would make for a better experience overall. - Tie techniques into gameplay more. Maybe have a quest where an NPC looking to become a warrior or defend their town wants you to show them different skills. Maybe have enemies or objects with special interactions when a particular technique is used on them. I think that there's a chance that Zangetsu Mode or the mysterious third character could also fill this gap by relying on techniques without the ability to use shards. In general, though, I just think the game needs to use techniques more to make them feel like a core part of the game.
- An area to train. The need to connect with techniques to really master them can be a problem, so give players an invincible training dummy they can beat up instead. Could also be useful for comparing the damage output of shards and weapons.
- Faster mastery. If the rewards aren't great, why is the effort required for them?
- More rewards for mastery. Rather than just making techniques usable with all weapons of a type, have them improve as mastred. This could come with multiple levels of mastery, the same as shards have Rank and Grade. Instead of just getting a gold star, techniques could progress through one, two, and three stars, as well as through bronze, silver, and then gold stars, for nine levels total.
- "Technique scrolls". These would equip in the ammo slot with a melee weapon, and allow a certain technique to be used with it. Specific weapons would still have their own "built-in" techniques, but scrolls would open up the ability to learn a certain technique with your weapon of choice, as well as being another way to hint what techniques exist, and how to perform them.
- More forgiving inputs. I understand the desire not to make the inputs too simple, as it would make them easy to put in by accident. However, when a large number of people have trouble with the inputs, that's also a problem. Aside from just increasing the margin for error, I think a good way to handle this would be with some unused buttons. Playstation and Xbox controllers have buttons in the thumbsticks. Bloodstained doesn't currently use these, so one or both could go to a "stance" button that can be used with simpler button combinations.
- Technique shards. This is one area I really feel the base game was lacking. There should be shards that tie into technique use. A shard that automatically performs a technique (there are several basic inputs, so there could be shards for multiple of these). Shards to speed mastery. Shards to boost power. Shards to reduce vulnerability or speed up cast time. There are just so many things that could be done here. It's a real shame that there wasn't any interaction between these systems.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jun 27, 2019 8:36:51 GMT -6
Even if these ideas didn't come into play with Ritual of the Night, there's always the hope for seeing them in a future Bloodstained game.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jun 25, 2019 14:40:22 GMT -6
I'm not really a fan of speedrunning. It just runs counter to the way I play games, which is to take my time with them and try to squeeze every moment of satisfaction I can out of them
That said? This is great! It's wonderful to see Bloodstained getting such mainstream acknowledgement as to be featured at a GDQ event. Especially with it being such a recent title. I don't know exactly how they do things at GDQ, but I know I generally don't hear about such new games being popular for speedrunning, yet it seems that Curse of the Moon was from the moment it launched.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jun 24, 2019 8:53:42 GMT -6
PC user here. There are a few techniques that are decent for mobility. In general, though?
They cost too much MP, aren't much better than regular attacks for damage, the inputs are too precise, and they can be interrupted. So no, I don't use techniques. Not sure if I'll ever get the achievement for mastering one, except by accident after years of playing this game.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jun 23, 2019 12:26:22 GMT -6
I don't know if I'll ever get around to reviewing every single aspect of this game. I'm far too busy enjoying it. However, I did want to talk about one aspect that I and others have griped about, but I don't think that anyone is really giving feedback on. Like it says in the title, Blue Chests could use some work. The concept is something I liked. At least at first. Boxes with some random bits of minor loot that you can come back and get from time to time. It makes sure there's always something to do in earlier areas. It eliminates the need to farm an enemy for every little thing. The problem is, it's just a bit too inconvenient. You have to go back to the boxes. This is helped by map prompts, but they only show up on the map screen, not the minimap. They also don't always show up. So you have to do a lot of wandering around to find what you're looking for. There's also no way to see what area a particular item is in. If it's on a monster, you can see that, but there's no way to look up box loot for a particular area, and the item list doesn't say where items appear as chest loot. Now, I kind of get it. If you had a list of areas, you'd know what they are, or at least how many there are. However, it makes it pretty tough to get what you're looking for to not know where it shows up. Especially when a chest isn't guaranteed to have the item you need in it, even if you are in the right area. Here's some things I think would improve the system. - List areas where something appears in a blue chest on the item pages. These can be shown as "? ? ? ?" when you haven't found the item in a chest in that area yet.
- Allow items to be tagged for searching. While tagged, rooms where that item can be found or farmed will be marked, like quest monster spawns are.
- Make blue chests respawn sooner. Currently it seems to be only when you fully load into another area, which can be quite tedious for some kinds of loot.
- Have chest-only loot appear for sale in the shop after a certain point, be that an amount of progress past the area it first appears, collecting a certain number, or finding a new item that adds it to the shop.
- Alternatively, have the shop sell "order forms". Key items that have a large up-front cost, but cause the shop to stock that item from then on.
- For any of the vegetable items, have a chance to find seeds. There aren't enough crops to farm anyway, and the ones that exist don't get used often enough unless you're stockpiling food to heal with.
- Give the mimic types a drop for random chest loot.
I suppose the last option is to just get rid of chest-exclusive loot altogether, and give all of these items to enemies so they can be farmed, but I think that would take away something from the game.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jun 18, 2019 5:33:40 GMT -6
Already having an issue. Steam promised pre-load. I cannot pre-load the game. No one can pre-load the game. Edit:
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Post by anonthemouse on May 21, 2019 2:38:20 GMT -6
Whatstained: Confusion of the Night
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Post by anonthemouse on Feb 16, 2019 1:23:30 GMT -6
All right, let's take a crack at this. Answers will be in this colour.
1) Would you agree and/or contribute to a new Kickstarter for a Bloodstained sequel?
- Provided I had the money at the time? Absolutely. Nothing about Bloodstained thus far has given me any reason to doubt.
2) How much would you consider to be "fair" as a goal if Bloodstained sequel required a Kickstarter?
- Hard to say. I think that they should keep their asking conservative, though. If RotN does well, they will have other sources of funding to call on. If not, they won't have as much trust to ask for a big budget.
3) Would you like if Bloodstained followed a consistent timeline (with each game happening after the other one) a convoluted timeline (like Castlevania, where games was released at different centuries and years) or a meta-like timeline (where each game happens at it's own universe, sharing common elements, like most Final Fantasy games) or some other way?
- I definitely prefer that games have a connected timeline. It allows for events to be referenced and to build up and expand a body of lore. Beyond that, my preference isn't strong, but I don't mind a convoluted one. It's more flexible, and lets the creative team focus on where they can tell the best story at the time.
4) Would you like to see any character from Ritual of the Night, in the direct sequel of Bloodstained? Who? Why?
- It's a little too soon to say. However, I'd say that there is certainly some interesting potential for repeat characters, descendants, or ancestors.
5) Would you prefer if Bloodstained Sequel followed 2.5D like Ritual of the Night, or something else? (Such as 2D sprite graphics, or a complete 3D gameplay)?
- To me, a lot of modern 2.5D graphics look pretty jank, so I do have a preference for sprites, but having enjoyed Lament of Innocence back in the day, and having been won over by Ritual of the Night's demo, I have confidence that any style they decide on will work.
6) Along the years, Igavania games tried to update or change the usual formula. While Symphony of the Night and Harmony of Dissonance, Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow had mostly the same overall idea (Metroidvania gameplay inside a huge castle / fortress-look-a-like) some other games tried something new (Portrait of Ruin had portraits that teleported you to other scenarios, Order of Ecclesia had regions separated from the main castle). Ritual of the Night seems to have followed mostly the classic SOTN formula, with (as of now). Would you like if Bloodstained sequel followed the same formula, or tried something new like PoR and OoE tried? (or something else).
- It seems pretty inevitable to me that any new game in the series will play with the formula a bit. As long as they don't stray too far from their roots, I think it should be fine. That said, my favourite Igavania games have been the ones closer to the "core" design.
7) Main character. Male or female? A single character or multiple characters (like Portrait of Ruin)?
- It's sounded like Ritual of the Night will have multiple playable characters. Curse of the Moon did, and it was really fun. That's something I'd like to see continue, as a more varied experience makes for a more engaging game.
8) IGA has stated before that Soul Dominance was the best magic system his team ever created and he wanted to use it again, or variations of it (that's one reason of why Dawn of Sorrow and Order of Ecclesia exists). Bloodstained has the Shardbinder, that is a updated version of Soul Dominance. For a Bloodstained Sequel, would you like if the main character had a magic system following the same premise? (stealing something from enemies and using that as powers) or something completely different? What?
- I think that, in some way, gaining power from defeated enemies should continue. It makes it more meaningful to find and defeat a lot of different kinds of enemies. I think this is one of those areas where I can see them playing with the systems a lot. I can't think of anything specific I'd want to see, other than maybe some Monster Hunter-esque more heavily crafting focused system, but I definitely think there's a lot of room to experiment with this aspect of the game.
9) Standard EXP and level, like most Igavanias, or some other kind of leveling system? (Like Lamment of Innocence, that ddn't had level nor EXP, but itens to upgrade Leon Health and Hearts)
- Another aspect that would be good for experimentation, but I wouldn't want to see EXP and levels totally gone. Maybe some hybrid system, though.
10) Anything else you would like to add for a Bloodstained Sequel?
- I think that advancing from character customization to outright creation would be a fun aspect, but also difficult to work into a story-based game like this. I think that some more flexibility in weapons would be nice. Both a larger variety, and maybe giving them multiple styles/modes.
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Post by anonthemouse on Feb 16, 2019 0:13:25 GMT -6
Sounds like a very interesting prospect.
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Post by anonthemouse on Feb 15, 2019 23:42:11 GMT -6
So, regarding the wings...I was honestly in the camp of wanting to see her create a temporary platform under her feet that shatters as she jumps off of it. I think that would have been cool, and played well off of the properties of stained glass. When it comes to the invert mechanic, I'm a big fan. This takes something of nigh-iconic familiarity and uses it in a new way. As we saw in one of the trailers, where it's used to ascend a long vertical shaft, it also creates a powerful new traversal mechanic, and there's sure to be some tricky VVVVVV style puzzles around it. For my own question - Now that the game is so close to finished, I'd love to get a changelog of just what was done in response to demo feedback. EDIT: ...and I'm sure we'll see Goofball in one form or another. He's basically become like a mascot.
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Post by anonthemouse on Aug 10, 2018 3:53:53 GMT -6
I actually agree with you. I thought Dominique's outfit and look was much blander compared to the other characters. I also did not like the fact that her dialogue talks about how she is an expert exorcist and what she does is just sell items. I expected more from a character that seems like she is supposed to be awesome. This is another facet to my theory that we'll be seeing Dominique turn out to be playable in the future. Or, at the least, I suspect that the story will be revealing her to be more than just a simple shopkeeper. My guess is that she's supposed to come off as a bit bland, and that we'll be seeing the real Dominique in one way or another later on.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 31, 2018 15:38:23 GMT -6
An idea that popped into my head on seeing this thread is going into the past. Actually get to see the events that happened when the alchemists unleashed their demons. Fight your way through the epicentre of that calamity to the central stronghold and try to undo the events that led up to everything. Maybe the final boss could even be Alfred.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 31, 2018 15:26:06 GMT -6
- Regardless of people complaining about lighting, I think the art direction is great.
- The soundtrack is also on point.
- The layout of the levels/world feels comfortable, while also giving a great sense of scale.
- Enemy placements are pretty darn smart.
- Gameplay just feels right. I don't know how to properly express that. Even the weapons that don't fit my play style handle well, and I always feel like it's my lack of mastery that's holding me back, not the game.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 31, 2018 15:09:35 GMT -6
Free DLC exists, but I agree with the principle.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 31, 2018 15:01:51 GMT -6
I'm for a Crate Boss reference showing up in any form. Lots of later players won't get it, but it'd be a nice way to acknowledge the community with something that's already reached semi-legendary status.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 31, 2018 13:35:54 GMT -6
I'm just going off of what we've seen so far. In the demo, all boots have a three-hit combo, and all katanas have both a three-hit combo and a dash. Both three-hit combos use a Quarter-circle + Attack input, and require you to repeat that input for each attack in the chain. Based on that, these are my thoughts on what I'd like to see things move more towards in the future.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 30, 2018 21:12:56 GMT -6
...or rather, I already have, a bit. In case the image doesn't load, the problem I have can basically be boiled down to two things. - I find the quarter-circle input used by the boots and katana pretty tricky to pull off, and even harder to chain.
- It's a bit dull that the boots and katana both use the same input for their combo move.
I don't really have much to say on the issue. I'd like to see a wider variety of inputs for one thing. For another, I'd like to see chained attacks a bit easier to pull off. It takes a special input just to get the first move in the chain. If that move is tricky to pull off, then some people may not be able to perform the full combo at all. I think that once you've got the fist input in, it should really just be a matter of do you want to do the full combo or not. Rather than requiring the full input again, why can't the three hit combo be executed by simply timing the attack button? Or, at the very least, attack plus a direction (the direction the attack "swings" in shouldn't be too difficult to remember). Since these moves already have a per-swing MP cost, they're already gated. Making them easier to pull off might see them get more use, which is more fun.
I guess on a related note, I'm not sure how I feel about moves being assigned to an entire class of weapon, either. It's good for learning the inputs, but it seems like it would make weapons less creative. All boots ballet kick, all katanas do a dash and a three-swing combo, all rapiers make you regret that such an elegant weapon is functionally identical to a spear (that one might just be me). It's easy to learn, but it feels a bit hollow. Saving special moves for special weapons could have been a way to make them more varied. For instance...
- A fancy weapon with sub-par damage and no element, but with the right combo it can release a burst of gold coins, damaging enemies and guaranteeing those killed with the move drop money.
- Two poison weapons that are similar, but one can create a lingering cloud that deals damage in a wide area, while the other can do a move that deals a little extra damage and poisons normally immune enemies.
- Boots that let Miriam leave trails of fire on the ground.
- A whip that lets you dance on air while your mana holds out.
- A sniper gun that can shoot through walls.
The point is, there are abilities that would be great for making certain weapons special, or for making two similar weapons useful in different situations. You wouldn't want them to be on every weapon of their type.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 26, 2018 14:39:26 GMT -6
I'm a little disappointed by the lack of Steampunk on the poll. That would definitely be my preference. I'm a big fan of the general aesthetic, and it would definitely fit the setting.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 23, 2018 3:38:52 GMT -6
I would love for petrified enemies to stick around, but I also think that you should be able to use them as temporary platforms. Basically, think of the use of the ice beam in Metroid. You petrify an enemy and it turns to stone. It's stuck in place but you can stand on it and jump off. After some time, it will break out of petrification. If the player is touching it at the time, it hits them. Simple.
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Post by anonthemouse on Jul 23, 2018 3:27:57 GMT -6
It would be pretty fun if summon type souls joined in when Miriam uses her "Jojo pose" action. Similar to how the fairy would perch on you when you stand still in SotN.
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