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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 13, 2016 5:02:08 GMT -6
purifyweirdshard i'm not against "Why X game can't be as hard as Dark Souls" argument. I just think it is a little overused for no real purpose, rather than praise the game. Igavanias and Dark souls hare completely different games, with absurdly different conceptions and target players. But well, that's my humble opinion, from someone that barely played Dark Souls anyway.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 12, 2016 11:46:19 GMT -6
I also don't like this notion of "Why X game can't be dificult like Dark Souls" mantra everyone is talking about these days.
Even so, IGA said many times in the past that the main reason most of his games weren't dificult, is because he wanted people to be able to pick-and-play easily. But he agreed on fans demands and made Order of Ecclesia harder.
By the way, want a hard Igavania game? Play Order of Ecclesia on clean Hard mode (with no New game+). Hard as hell!
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 12, 2016 11:41:09 GMT -6
If indicatros can pollute the game, there is something easy that can be done too. Let the numbers as they are now, and just add a special effect on the attack, when it lands, if the enemy is weak against it: Neutral damage: no effect. Enemy is strong against that damage: no effect. Enemy is weak against that damage: a special effect shows up where the attack landed (a small fire, a bigger slash, some cracking ice and such). This is a great idea. Simple, clear and uncomplicated. Love it! It's an elegant solution, gives clear feedback so we can tell whats effecting the enemy. Still leaves room in the bestiary for icons etc. where they should be, and it leaves room for experimentation too as an effect would only show if an enemy is weak vs something. It's the perfect solution in my view. Thank you =) Weren't weak attacks always marked by having the monsters flash blue upon an attack instead of red or am I just dreaming that up? The only game that had that, as far as i remember, was Portrait of Ruin.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 12, 2016 1:25:26 GMT -6
If indicatros can pollute the game, there is something easy that can be done too. Let the numbers as they are now, and just add a special effect on the attack, when it lands, if the enemy is weak against it: Neutral damage: no effect. Enemy is strong against that damage: no effect. Enemy is weak against that damage: a special effect shows up where the attack landed (a small fire, a bigger slash, some cracking ice and such).
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 11, 2016 1:05:34 GMT -6
Your idea of a separate bar just for familiars is a really good idea @nyahahaha .
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 10, 2016 1:45:44 GMT -6
I agree with you. Portrait of Ruin was the only Igavania game, as far as i remember, that had this kind of system. When you attacked an enemy, it could flash Blue (strong to that element) or Red (normal damage OR weak to that element). I think this was a nice little thing that really should be turned into default thingy for all other games.
I just think that the color coded damage could be simpler than what you said. Some weapons have more than one attribute, that is truth, but even so, it is the damage itself that matters, right? We still dont know what happens if you Slash an enemy with a Fire Sword and the enemy is strong against Slash and weak against Fire, for instance. On the Demo, we could saw that the enemies doesn't flash when attacked like some Igavania games in the past (not all flashed, i know), so, the idea to put the colors on the numbers is a really good idea. But even so, i think that visual indicators for the player must be as simple as possible. So, let me take the liberty to rearrange your suggestion to something, for me, a little more simple:
Red damage numbers - Enemy is weak against that attack damage / element. White damage Numbers - Enemy is neutral against that attack damage / element. Blue damage numbers - Enemy is strong against that attack damage / element. Green damage numbers - Healing effect (enemy absorbs that damage / element, or you (or the enemy) used an item). Big, flashing numbers (that can be red, white or blue) - Critical hit.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 10, 2016 1:31:36 GMT -6
Back to the topic, talking about backgrounds now. Iga said that Procedural Generation are being used on backdrops / backgrounds. We also know that Procedural Generation was used on other Igavanias, but even so, most of them, as Iga himself said, was also handcrafted. Let's take a look at some backgrounds from some of Igavanias, as a comparison. SYMPHONY OF THE NIGHT BACKGROUNDS
For me, this is one of the best examples of what a beautiful background can look. This is a particularly small room, with nothing really important on it, besides some itens. Even so, they decided to overly detail it, by creating a 3d effect with stained glasses, an altar and all those impressive and beautifully crafted lightning. By far, for me, one of the best backgrounds of the whole game. One of the most interesting things for backgrounds on Igavania, for me, is their abiluty to make you imagine what would look to play on the other side of the screen. Take this, for instance. You can see huge windows, that open and close, with trees and castle walls, with a purple dark outside. There are Dracula's minions out there? What would be to play on that side, killing demons around the trees and walking closer to the castle walls? I even thought that, making the player plays on the background, could be a good idea for a Second Castle...who knows... HARMONY OF DISSONANCE BACKGROUNDS
This is more akin to what we were discussing before. Take a look, specially, at the spears on the back of that room down below. They are obviously displayed as if they were put there on a random way, but they aren't random at all. After each statue, the spears are all placed exactly on the same way. Wall cracks are also all on the same disposition. That is a good example of simply copy/paste environment without much human touch on it. This repetition can be find on all games, yes, but it is bad when you can spot that on a place that it LOOKS LIKE it had the intention to be random. ARIA OF SORROW BACKGROUNDS
I really love Inner Quarters. It's music is awesome and it's backgrounds are fine and detailed. Each piece of it has a different look, with even small details, like the curtains, the mirrors and all the windows, alongside that area on the stairs at the left, on the background, showing, again, one fot he thigns i like more: how the background area looks like, making me want to go there to play. ORDER OF ECCLESIA BACKGROUNDS
Ecclesia's Backgrounds are beautiful. They really look like a church and each particular room is well detailed and really well made. Those assets are awesome and it all combines perfectly with the whole scenario. It's a shame that not the whole game had this kind of detail. A WORD ABOUT BACKGROUNDS
I think backgrounds are really important o Igavania games. They show us how the place looks like, make us imagine how it would be to play on the other side, and make everything feels more alive and realistic, specially if there are things happening on the background or the background itself interacts with the area you are playing with. I have faith on IGA and his team, that they will be able to make high-quality backgrounds for the game. The first screens we saw are already proving that, on my opinion.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 9, 2016 3:12:47 GMT -6
Back in april, i did a thread like this before, before we had any info about Shard System and didn't knew much of how the game would be yet. Nowthat we have much more info about the game, it's the time to return to this discussion! Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night will have familiars. Traditionally, familiars are magical beings that follows and helps mages on most of RPGs, cultures and myths. Castlevanias of the past used them and on Bloodstained, with all it's Alchemy setting, familiars will fit even better. Now, with the Shard System revealed, we know that Familiars will be a specific type of Shard. Considering that we don't know everything about the Shard System yet or the much of the game itself yet, the Familiars can work on many different ways. Let's discuss on how Familiars should be, and take a look on how Familiars were used on Igavanias in the past. FAMILIARS ON SYMPHONY OF THE NIGHT
Symphony of the Night was the first game to feature familiars. They were obtained as Relics, magical itens that can be turned ON and OFF, and they had a separate level system, with EXP going from 0 to 100 on each level. They also gained more abilities with more leves, not just getting generally stronger, with new spells for Demon and more Bats for Bat, for instance. And even some secrets, like the Sword Brothers spell, or the fact that if you reach LV 50 with Sword, it turns into a optional weapon that can also be upgraded by leveling up the Familiar itself. FAMILIARS ON ARIA OF SORROW AND DAWN OF SORROW
Familiars on the Sorrow series where little more than soul powers. They changed a little when you increased the number of souls you had (on Dawn of sorrow) but nothing more than that. Most of then just used the same power over and over again and they were allocated on Guardian Soul. FAMILIARS ON CURSE OF DARKNESS
For me, the MOST FUN type of familiar on the whole series, since the whole game is based on that. Although Curse of Darkness is a questionable game, the game's familiars (called Innocent Devils) could change to a variety of forms, depending on crystals you harnessed by killing monsters with specific weapons and those familiars could give you new, unleveled ones so you could level more familiars on different paths. Of course, Curse of Darkness relies on their familiars as the game's main magic system, that's why it's so elaborate. FAMILIARS ON ORDER OF ECCLESIA
Order of Ecclesia had familiars as Glyphs, they leveled up on power and usage by absorbing the same Glyph over and over again, from LV1 to LV3. CLOSING COMMENTS
How you want the familiars to work on Bloodstained? Shards that you simply summon? They need a separate level system based on EXP, Shard acumulation, Alchemy work on those Shards to make them more powerful, different forms? Also, how diverse you want familiars to be? Mostly attackers? Some healers? Any unusual idea? That's all folks!
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 9, 2016 2:34:18 GMT -6
I think i'm fully getting what you mean CastleDan . Let me see if my vision matches yours. I want to talk about the architecture of a Igavania that, for me, is a little underrated. Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance. CASTLEVANIA: HARMONY OF DISSONANCE
Few people know, but Harmony of Dissonance was the first true Igavania where IGA was the series director. The game obviously tried to be as close to Symphony of the Night as possible, borrowing sprites, enemies and even the protagonist's look to be close to Alucard, even through he is a Belmont. The castle also has a lot of resemblance to Symphony of the Night's Castle, although it's more simple and less detailed, due to the Game Boy Advance limitations. MARBLE CORRIDOR
Marble Corridor, for instance, has a uniform look on most of it's scenario, but it is a pretty broken path. You can see that on almost all castle, almost anywhere you go, you need to go up or down, with lots of plataforms and broken ground to walk. It's not a series of linear and blocky rooms. CASTLE TREASURE
Castle Treasure has three noticable areas inside it. A gray closed doors path, a beautiful redish lava/inferno path and a crystalized area (i wonder if Bloodstained will have a crystalized area on it's Castle, i guess this is a must-have, right?). Again, lots of broken paths and variations over scenarios. AQUEDUCT
The Aqueduct is a great example of what some people was saying. It's a really bland and boring scenario. Overly linear, it's background is mostly the same all the way, being nothing more then a series of paths and rooms. Even so, considering how Harmony of Dissonance's Castle is, a single scenario like this is not a bad thing. CLOSING COMMENTS
I think that procedural generation, that was used in some games, yes, can give really good results, but the overall Castle's architecture must be really variable and interesting, and not just a series of paths and blocky rooms. And that kinda happened to some of the last Igavanias. I DON'T KNOW if this is Procedural generation's fault or not.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 8, 2016 1:55:22 GMT -6
Talking specifically about repetition and bland design choices, something that can happen both by Prodecural Generation and by human creation, i think all Igavanias had their share on this. Symphony of the Night and Harmony of Dissonance had two castles and the second castle was a modified copy of the first one. That idea was obviously made to extend the game's length on a lazy way. Good idea, creative idea, but we all know the main purpose was to make the game bigger with the less amount of resources. From there on, each game had it's share or this, but just to give two examples here, i think two of the biggest offenders are Portrait of Ruin and Order of Ecclesia. REPETITION ON PORTRAT OF RUIN
City of Haze 13th Street For those who not played, in Portrait of Ruin the Castle has paintings. Magical portraits that when you enter, throws you on another dimension, at a separate map. The whole idea was neat, because they could create scenarios that wouldn't fit a castle (like a Pyramid on a desert), but what they did to make the game bigger? Create four main portraits scatered around the castle AND THEN create four MORE portraits that are just alternative versions of the first four, all in the same place, for you to beat and then reach the final bosses. REPETITION ON ORDER OF ECCLESIA
Mistery Manor Giant's Dwelling Order of Ecclesia had a bunch of scenarios outside the castle, and then the castle. The idea was also to make something different and diverse in look. They did it, but it also had copy and paste scenarios all over the place. You beat a bunch of scenarios and then you have more scenarios and some of them are copies one from the other. CLOSING COMMENTS
Those copies were made due to Procedural Generation? Overall Lazynes? Lack of resourcers and time? All those things at the same time? Hard to tell. But those games ended up being great games noneless.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 7, 2016 10:03:45 GMT -6
Well, i opened this discussion, i should as well say clearly what i think of it. I'm not an expert over these matters. I know procedural generation is quite old and i know many games of the past and nowadays use it. I didn't knew that Igavanias used it, maybe just for some symetry and small things. What raised up a concern over some people is the big focus IGA gave on how badly they needed a team to better work on procedural generation. What i think of all of this, is that i trust on IGA and i know they will do a good job. Procedural generation, as some enlightened us, was already used before and most games had excelent results. Of course, there were ups and downs, and many castles had copy and paste enviroments but i think that tools are much better nowadays and they will be able to fine tune everything on a good note. After all, i think all the places we saw on the video and at the pictures, was already made with the help of procedural generation. And things look not bland at all and really promising.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 6, 2016 12:25:40 GMT -6
You know all those assets that you see repeating over and over again in games? Y'know, things like wall textures, various patterns, objects, paintings, windows and statues? Well, what procedural generation will do is take all those shapes and arrange them differently and/or give them specific details (cracks in different places, various colors, etc.). This is nothing to be afraid of, as it will enrich the castle and make every room feel more unique. That's what i think too. I really don't understand a lot of it, but i made up this thread because some people wanted to talk about it. I know Procedural Generation is used all the time in many games, at many aspects of it. It seems that on Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, the usage will be more extensive then normal. But i believe that will make the game looks more unique and interesting, and we can already tell that by the pictures.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 6, 2016 9:29:26 GMT -6
I'm not worried at all. Procedural generation was used in the development of many other games, ultimately to ease the process. I'm especially not worried because this was also used in Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. IGA and his development teams can just add, edit, and fine-tune the details for most (if not all) of the generated content. We all know that they will. Besides, I would also presume that the only mode of gameplay in Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night where the procedural-generation will really go crazy is in the Rogue-like Mode. Most games use some form of procedural generation. When i said that almost all Igavanias were made 100% handcrafted, what i meant that most assets and backgrounds was finelly tuned by hand and the games had a lot of hand-made content. Of course, some degree of procedural generation is needed on almost any game nowadays... But, as CastleDan said, the focus on Procedural generation could shake some people. And i didn't knew that Symphony of the Night used that, to be honest. Also, i'm not against it at all. I have faith on IGA team.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 6, 2016 7:48:03 GMT -6
After IGA's last interview on IGN (that you can see here bloodstainedfanforums.com/thread/1383/ign-article-10-delay-publisher ) he revelaed that the game is showing to be so big that they needed more people o the team that could work with Procedure Generation. That sparkled on me an idea for a deep discussion about it. I want to say, right from the start, that i'm not a programmer, so, most of the info i'm presenting here is based on my own research over internet. WHAT IS PROCEDURAL GENERATION
In computing, procedural generation is a method of creating data algorithmically as opposed to manually. In computer graphics, it is also called random generation and is commonly used to create textures and 3D models. In video games it is used to automatically create large amounts of content in a game. (Wikipedia)
Procedural Generation can be used for lots of things, but it is most commonly used to create games with random aspects, like roguelike dungeon games and games that require the constant usage of random generated content (such as Spore or No Man's Sky). It is also used to create games, where you generate backgrounds, scenarios and assets and, fix things here and there, saving it like that to fix the look, and you have a whole scenario made up much faster than if you would try to do it by hand. HOW PROCEDURAL GENERATION WILL BE USED IN BLOODSTAINED: RITUAL OF THE NIGHT
IGA explained that without Procedural Generation, the game would take a lot of time to be made, due to how large it is. He said that they needed to bring in another team with procedural know-how on how to take something, copy it, use random generation on computer-driven way and create it, because considering how big the game is, they would never be able to finish it on time if everything would be done by hand. He said that the backdrops are being made with Procedural Generation and he, again, said that the sheer size of the game requires this. He even acknowledges that doing everything by hand would be beautiful, but it would create huge amounts of delays and problems and that they are focusing on balancing the usage of Procedure Generation and the art side of the game. This team wasn't selected yet. Iga told IGN a new development partner hadn't been selected at the time of this interview. He and the team had limited the decision to a few options and were very close. Of course, not all the game will be made that way, but quite large part of it will. THE BENEFITS OF PROCEDURAL GENERATION CONSIDERING BLOODSTAINED: RITUAL OF THE NIGHT
- Smaller file sizes for programming reasons.
- Faster creation.
- Much larger amount of content due to how easy it is to create.
- Randomness create a more life-like looks.
THE PROBLEMS OF PROCEDURAL GENERATION CONSIDERING BLOODSTAINED: RITUAL OF THE NIGHT
- The game can be rendered bland, with lack of unique scenarios.
- There is a chance of repetitive and overuse of copy/paste backgrounds and assets.
CLOSING COMMENTS
What do you think? We don't have much info, but it is probably that almost all Igavanias were 100% handcrafted, with each small piece of the castle being created alone, which gave to most of the games, a beautiful unique look to almost any place you could go. On the other hand, almost all Igavanias HAD a lot of copy and paste content. Sprites and graphics were overused since Symphony of the Night (that ALSO reused graphics from Rondo of Blood, by the way. Procedural Generation being used to create large parts of the game's backdrops and scenarios, fixing it and then using what was generated. What do you think of that? That's all folks! Additional info: i'm not a programmer, i just researched some articles and info about it and decided to post it. If anyone has a better understanding of it than me, please, be welcome to share.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 6, 2016 2:34:21 GMT -6
Now, i'm doing a double-post. I know. I don't care. I must post this SOMEWHERE! here are, BRAND NEW PICTURES OF BLOODSTAINED: RITUAL OF THE NIGHT straight from IGN for people that didn't saw it yet! (Like me!)
(CONCEPT ART)
I just posted this because i didn't saw it before and i thought it was something new. But XombieMike already posted it on a thread at the forum. Even so, i decided to not delete this so more people can see this stunning pictures.
Here's XombieMike Topic about it on the forum: bloodstainedfanforums.com/thread/1383/ign-article-10-delay-publisherSorry for double-posting your content XombieMike I was TOO ABSURDLY HYPED for those pictures when i saw them.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 6, 2016 2:22:48 GMT -6
Wow, lots of comments, answers and topics to discuss! Thanks JoJo , i always try to summarize info. thrashinuva thanks for agreeing =) About the whole portraits discussion, i must agree that i don't see any problem with them being at the entrance, if they manage to make them cool looking and not just a picture pasted there with no work on it. It would be fun to have a small plot behind it, as someone said, by being portraits of the Alchemist Guild members or something, but anyway, Igavania games had some of cool-looking portraits in the past. I can give a very good example that i just remembered, the Dracula Room from Julius Mode on Dawn Of Sorrow: This room was already well-detailed and beautiful on itself, and had a big ass portrait on it, from a unknown character. Wikia says it's possibly a more life-like rendition of Mathias Cronqvist, but anyway, that portrait was there, there was absolutely no explanation for it, and it looked damn good and blended perfectly with the whole scenario, in my honest opinion. If they take the pictures of the backers and work on them like that, adding classy clothing and a whole reinassance look, it will work greatly at the Entrance.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 5, 2016 12:25:22 GMT -6
Okay, there is A LOT TO BE SAID about this update. Much more than it meets the eye. Here goes: ABOUT 505 GAMES AS PUBLISHER
The work of a video game publisher is, as the name implies, to publish a game. They are responsible for the manufacturing, marketing and advertising. Some publishers also help with the budget and also distribute the games they publish, if they are large enough for that, while smaller ones hire a distribution company. How much execute meddling a publisher has on the production of a game varies greatly. Some has a vast power, deciding many things, while others simply manufacture, and advertise it. I never heard of 505 games, but as far as i researched, they have a vast selection of games published and they even have a prize for Indie Games, so, they are apparently very competent and safe. Considering what IGA said, apparently they were looking for a publisher because they wouldn't be able to do it by themselves or they considered that the project is too big to be handled without a publisher backing up. ABOUT THE CASTLE ENTRANCE
This looks really great in general, and i don't think i have anything bad to say about it. I want to break this into smaller parts: THE HUD
the hud seems to be the same, with some addictions. We can see a gun with a 0/999 number on it, showing that we will have real-time control of ammo for guns, which is a nice little detail. We can also see a big window on the far right, for the real-time mini map, another good thing that many Igavanias would benefit greatly to have. I think the window is a little too big for my tastes, but it is nothing really bad or anything. THE GRAPHICS
Dear Darwin! Look at this! This graphics are gorgeous! And they aren't even fully polished yet, considering what they are talking about the statue wings and such. Look at how asburdly detailed that is, from the blueish/purpleish carpet on the ground to the statues, going to the great gothic walls on the back, to the huge red flags with golden symbols, going far away into the stairs and reaching the windows with purple curtains. It's so overly detailed and the layers move nicely when Miriam walks. The corridor is also nicely detailed. We already know where the backer's portraits will be, but look at those lights on the background and how cool they look. There are chairs, candles and something is at the window, i can't really say what it is. And that's great. Nice little details for us to enjoy calmly. CLOSING COMMENTS
I don't know much about 505 games as a publisher, but it seems to be a safe option. The graphics are looking nice and overly detailed and that didn't finished yet. Also, it is interesting to see how absurdly perfectionist IGA is. He knows he is being recorded for a new update, and even so, he make comments and questions about the entrance (i doubt he is commenting just to show himself off on the video). Great soundtrack, solid gameplay, beautiful graphics. And the game still has a long way into development. Things really looks promising.That's all folks!
Small tip: try seeing the video, at the footage of the entrance, while hearing Luxurious Overture, the music that Miss Michiru confirmed to be of the Castle Entrance. I did it. It's awesome. Someone must get that video, cut it, edit it, and put that music on it.
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Pure Miriam
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[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
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[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 4, 2016 10:03:59 GMT -6
(...)(It's been a good while since I last played the Demo, so I don't remember if the traditional "subweapon" UP+Attack command is required for using a certain type of Shard. Is it?) Not yet. Trigger Shard is used by pressing Y (triangle on PS), Direction Shard is used by aiming with the right analog stick and pressing RB (R1 on PS). Enchant Shard has no command. Both Effective Shard and Familiar Shard wasn't showed on Demo, so, we don't know what their inputs are. But UP+ATTACK could surely be the Effective Shard (i doubt it would be for Familiar). I didn't thought on that. Good guess!
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Pure Miriam
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[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
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[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 4, 2016 1:46:42 GMT -6
I tend to agree with BloodyTears92 . I'm going to give my particular opinion about Special Attacks and Inputs to make everything clear. BLOODSTAINED: RITUAL OF THE NIGHT WILL SURELY HAVE MORE THAN A HUNDRED SPELLS
Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night will have the Shard System. Most enemies of the game will give you a Shard containing a spell and we already have insights of Shards outside enemies. Aria of Sorrow, a 2003 game had over 100 different spells. Bloodstained will be a huge game, most probably with a bigger bestiary. We can sure assume that it will have much more than 100 Shards to collect. Bloodstained will also feature some kind of Sets, where you can create Sets of equipment and Shards to change in real time, so you can have acess to a lot of Shards at the same time. Considering they added Inputs, i'm sure the game will also have basic specials for weapons too. All that combined makes a huge and robust magic and attack system, where you will have countless ways of playing, attacking and killing your foes. Considering that scenario, special inputs sounds useless and overwhelming. What can you possibly add on top of all that i just said, that can make those special inputs in anyway useful and not redundant?BLOODSTAINED: RITUAL OF THE NIGHT WILL HAVE A FORGING SYSTEM AND A ROBUST WEAPON SELECTION
Considering the game will have a forging system and a big weapon roster, we can safely assume that they are aiming for more or less the same weapon diversity of Symphony of the Night. Iga said that the game will not be as equipment dependant as Symphony of the Night was, but it will have a big weapon selection. That, and special inputs for weapons adds already another layer of attacks and skills into the game, combined with the Shard System. BLOODSTAINED: RITUAL OF THE NIGHT WILL HAVE A TACTICAL SPELL TYPE: THE DIRECTIONAL SHARD
Iga focused on his last interview, on how important the Directional Shard is. It is a tactical spell type, and the game will have puzzles and gimmicks where the player will need to direct his powers around. The ability to control the direction of your spell is something new for 2d Igavania games and that, alone, already gives a new layer of skillfull gameplay and variety. SPECIAL ATTACKS AND INPUTS ON SYMPHONY OF THE NIGHT WAS ALMOST ALL USELESS
The only game that used this as the main character's attack system was Symphony of the Night. All Alucard spells were useless, save for maybe one or two. You can beat the game without ever using any of them. After Symphony, absolutely no other Igavania ever used that, and instead created a bunch of other creative magic and spell systems. I fail to see how, in a game that will surely have more than a hundred different spells, any kind of input system will work without ALSO being rendered useless. CLOSING COMMENTS
Considering all i said, i don't think Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night needs a Input system at all. I think that basic specials for weapons is a really good idea, but that's it. I'm not against it, i just think it will be rendered useless and will be put aside by most players, unless they force that out by creating somehow mandatory places where you need to use inputs to survive or keep going, wich will be a design flaw, or they come out with something entirely new that none of us was able to think yet, wich would be a pleasant surprise.
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[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 3, 2016 2:31:45 GMT -6
Pure Miriam Thank you for the insight. Basically I am saying I would hate to have to take Double Jump and lose access to say Slide, or High Jump, or another movement ability. Even if I could just switch abilities on the fly it seems it would be a hassle. SotN you could Double Jump and High Jump without having to go into a menu screen, or Transform into Wolf and use Wolf Charge, or Bat and Wing Smash for faster movement. No, i'm sure that is not going to happen at all. Let me explain why: HOW ARIA OF SORROW AND DAWN OF SORROW WORKED REGARDING PROGRESSION ABILITIES
Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow, the core from where Shard System is based, had a type called "Ability" for that (grey in collor). And the Ability type was nothing more than Relics with another name. The three main types you needed to equip like the Shards we saw on Demo. But the Ability Type had a separate menu where you could turn them ON or OFF, using the same system as the Relics, you didn't need to equip them, since each one had a special input and you could use all fot them at the same time, like relics. They just made a glorified Relic System by adding the Ability Type Soul, to make all powers of the protagonist bound to the same system, for consinstency and plot reasons. There is also another info that must be added here. Dawn of Sorrow, that used the same system with some adds, and Order of Ecclesia, that used a system based on the same idea, also added a very useful thing: the ability to create Sets. Dawn of Sororw had a Ability soul whose power gave Soma two Sets. So, you could choose Soma's equipment and Souls on two different Sets and change them on real time with a simple command. Order of Ecclesia had a Relic (the game has relics) whose ability was the same thing, adding three sets and Shanoa could change her powers over three sets on real time. BLOODSTAINED: RITUAL OF THE NIGHT WILL HAVE SETS
If you pay attention, you can see that, on the Demo, there is a reference to Sets:
You can see, inside that red circle that i did with my impressive Paint abilities, that you havve a "Equipment Set 1". So, we are probably going to have Set 2, Set 3...and those sets will be able to be changed real-time, with sets for equipment and Shards. HOW ABILITY SOULS ON ARIA OF SORROW AND DAWN OF SORROW WERE COLLECTED
On Aria of Sorrow, most ability souls where on a specific item called "Soul Holder". A kind of a lamp post with a Soul locked on it, that you needed to break to get the Soul, as if the Demo from that Soul wasn't summoned on Castle, but his Soul was locked on a object for some unknown reason. You actually need to search those Soul Holders to get these Souls and some of them are protected by bosses. Yeah, they just made Relics being Souls to link all Soma's powers to Souls for plot reasons. On Dawn of Sorrow, they changed things around. Most ability souls now are on Bosses, so you actually need to kill bosses to get progression abilites. WHAT I THINK THEY WILL DO ON BLOODSTAINED: RITUAL OF THE NIGHT
Sets are already on the Demo, so, we can assume that will exist on the game. But i'm sure they will add a sixth Shard Type, a " Ability Type" of sorts, where you collect Shards and they go to a separate Menu where you can turn them ON and OFF like the good old relics, like what Aria and Dawn of Sorrow did. There was some teasing that some Shards would be collected on other things and not only from enemies (someone said Chests or something) so, maybe the will pull out something like the Soul Holder from Aria of Sorrow. Maybe, there will be a Ability Shard Type, and some of those Ability Shards will be hidden at Crystalized pillars or chests or anything like that, that you need to break to collect. A ADD ON INFORMATION: ARIA OF SORROW ABILITY SOULS
Just as an additional information, here's what all Ability Souls where on Aria of Sorrow (i didn't add those from Dawn of Sorrow because the game that created this system was Aria). Gravekeeper: Backdash by pressing Left Shoulder Button Skeleton Blaze: Slide by pressiong DOWN + Jump Button Malphas: Jump again on mid-jump (Double Jump). Kicker Skeleton: Kick during a Double Jump by pressiing DOWN + Jump Button. (The only one you get from a enemy). Hippogryph: perform a high-jump by pressing Left Shoulder Button in jump. Galamoth: recognize places in wich time has been stopped. (No input). (Basically, you can walk over a single part of the game where there is a enemy that teleports you back all the time you try to enter, because that enemy stops time and rewinds you back to the beginning of the corridor). I hope i was able to explain all that good enough!
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