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Post by crocodile on Jun 30, 2016 17:10:36 GMT -6
The latest (June) Update is Live!Highlights
- Another set of demo keys are being sent out today. If you were eligible for the demo but didn't get it in your e-mail, check again.
- If you missed the previous June 13th deadline you going to be given another shot. Back (or upgrade to) a $60+ tier and fill out your survey by 12pm PDT on July 8th and you be eligible for the next/last set of demo keys.
- Iga recounts his E3 experience
- Iga will be at Anime Expo. Autograph signings will happen @ July 1 at 2 PM, July 2 at 3 PM, and July 3 at 2:30 PM in Kentia Hall. He's also got a panel discussion planned for July 3 at 12:15 PM. Again all times are PDT.
- Iga will be at Bitsummit. IGA will be speaking in the 10:20-10:50 AM JST slot and doing a live playthrough on July 10.
- Play the demo, have fun and leave feedback or point out any bugs. Be constructive
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Post by crocodile on Jun 29, 2016 23:35:23 GMT -6
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Post by crocodile on Jun 29, 2016 19:50:17 GMT -6
That's not really true at all. No ones saying they need to ditch tutorials. Is that maybe some of our preference? Sure but I'm sure you have preferences too. We've already stated there's ways to do tutorials where it's not intrusive for those who hate them and for those who need them. I wouldn't say that's being against newcomers at all. I'd say that's finding common ground and being fair to everyone. Having prompts or having an option to turn tutorials off is GOOD game design 101 if anything. It makes everyone happy. Cutscenes that are tutorial based isn't imo Considering I've even said it would be keen if tutorials were optional/skippable it makes make me question a bit if you read some of the things I've written in here? However multiple posts in here have both denigrated tutorials in general and extolled the virtues of the complete absence of tutorials (including some of yours) so I felt it was important to speak out against. Regarding the type of tutorial used, effectiveness is a big concern. If the tutorial isn't good enough at conveying information that is a concern and that seemed to be the feedback Iga was getting at E3. There is a reason he was standing there watching people play his game - he wasn't there just for kicks. If the command prompts weren't doing the job well enough (that at they are often harder to segregated entirely from the gameplay that cutscenes and overdosing on text can be an issue) then that may mean a change up is in order. Tutorials that are interactive and fun tend to be the most successful as well as ones that avoid front-loading information. Sometimes cutscenes can botch those elements so that is a concern of mine - I'm just not sure what would be a comparable game/example to what they want to do. Again, is OoE something they are looking towards (which had interactive and directed elements that even had you engage in a mock battle)?
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Post by crocodile on Jun 29, 2016 18:50:14 GMT -6
Speaking of paintings, something I'm curious about is how they'll handle the Ancestral Bloodline tier rewards in the game - the one where you get a digital portrait of yourself in the game. How stylized will the portraits be? Will they be spread across the castle or all gathered into a gallery room(s) similar to how Shovel Knight did them? It's not something anyone has to think about for a long while but since this topic came up it was something I became curious about.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 29, 2016 17:40:19 GMT -6
I dunno, it seems much simpler to just use the 3D render? Like if the 3D render was something ugly I'd get behind replacing ti with 2D portraits but it seems fine here. My hope is that said render updates to reflect your gear, condition, the Customize system as well as become a bit more lively (have her breath or blink or go into her idle stance or something). If its going to be 3D, make use of that 3D!
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Post by crocodile on Jun 29, 2016 17:30:19 GMT -6
A) "Lots of people said something is the best, ergo it must be true, said product must be flawless, everything it did was the right way to do thing and there is no way to improve upon it." This seems to be an argument a few people are making? This is TERRIBLE logic. Extend this type of thinking to any other field of life and it would spell the end of human advancement. “Chamber pots are good, why bother with indoor plumbing?”, “The monarchy is great, why try other forms of government?”, “Leeches seem pretty cool, why bother with medical research?”. You can like/love something without deifying it. Acknowledge its flaws and use that as an avenue for iteration and improvement. Game design has evolved and the industry is much larger than it has ever been. Lots of the things that were done in the past were done that way because they couldn’t do better or didn’t know how to do better yet. This is an ideal time for Iga to use everything he has learned as a game designer so far to make the best Igavania he can. Bloodstained will not be the best game it can be by copying all design elements wholesale from a 20 year old game. B) The inability of some to think outside their bubble and appreciate the needs of those unlike them is a little depressing This is Game Design Theory 101. You obviously want to design the sort of game you and those who think like you want to play but if you want an audience beyond that, you have to think of the needs of others too. There are going to be more people who play this game than just backers – I have no idea where some have some fairy tale dream that backers will be the only/majority players of this game over the years it will exist. If this was a retail game with a standard publisher arrangement and only sold 65k (approx. number of backers) copies lifetime that would be a disaster. I assume Iga wants/expects more out of this game than that. We should too. In game tutorials have existed in games and been done in ways that both acknowledged the needs of neophytes while not impeding on the fun of the more experienced. There are ways to make everybody happy here – experienced players don’t have to be screwed at all if this is done well. No creative elements or vision has to be sacrificed here either. The goal is to offer feedback to ensure that any tutorials done in this game are done right. Not to debate the merit of the concept of a tutorial.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 29, 2016 13:30:11 GMT -6
purifyweirdshard : I feel the OP of a thread usually sets the tone and concept so having it buried in the middle of the topic (even with an note) is kind of awkward and makes for funky reading. I think I'd prefer the OP at the top with a post that archives those first 4 posts so others can see them (like say "these are the posts that prompted this thread"). I'll leave that up to you what you think is best but that would be my preference. CastleDan : You really need to think more like a game designer. Yes, some people will always be dumb you can't lead the ignorant to water so to speak. However, the onus is on the game designer to make sure the game mechanics are explained in such a way as to be understanding and accommodating to as much of the intended audience as possible. If Iga is watching people play his game and seeing they are having trouble, it means he needs to do a better job conveying this information. Our "job" here is to discuss ways in which we think are the best way to do that and maybe pass those suggestions on to the dev team. It's still early so stuff like that can matter.Tutorials that hold your hand too much, break immersion badly, are unskippable, etc. are actively bad - there are ways to mess up tutorials. But having nothing or insufficient tutorials is not the answer either. I will also saying tying your game mechanics into your narrative actually makes things less "gamey" as they are better justified and explained - they arent just random things you can do just 'cause. If you're a game has a narrative, this is important. The Soul system of the Sorrow games was integral to the entire plot and why Soma was who he was and why he was where he was. You can't not address that. Same thing with Miriam's shard system. The fact that you had moves and techniques that were never introduced to you in SOTN (I always thought it was hilarious you had access to the spells from the start of the game but you never knew it and they were easy as hell to completely miss if you didn't scan the Librarian's menu carefully) is a bug not a feature. That's not exploration, that randomly stumbling upon something by per accident because otherwise you never have any clue to look for stuff. SOTN is a great game but its also almost 20 years old. We should never forget get the successes that classic games have had and the lessons they have thought us but just because a game is a classic doesn't mean that everything it did is correct or that nothing can be improved upon.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 29, 2016 2:50:08 GMT -6
It is important that players have at least a conceptual understanding on how to play your game. In modern times, with the death of the instruction manual, in-game tutorials are the way to go. However, tutorials, like all aspects of a production, can be done well or poorly. The E3 demo had text prompts that would pause the action and briefly tell you how to preform certain actions. Basically functional and not too intrusive though not that extensive and somewhat immersion breaking. However, given some of the comments of the staff (Iga in interviews, Mana in the E3 demo feedback thread, the most recent Kickstarter update thread) it's clear they want to do more and I can't blame them - even if most of us who backed the game are Metroidvania/Igavania fanatics, we aren't the only ones who will play the game and I do expect there to be new systems in play that even we may need a moment or two to get up to speed on. However, as I alluded to, there are many different ways to do a tutorial. The best, though maybe hardest to pull off, is teaching entirely through level design. It circumvents the overly "video-gamey" feel of having a disembodied voice or text prompts telling you what to do and maintains pacing in an excellent fashion. I've mention it before, and I'll mention it again and again because man does the following example nail it, but Shovel Knight is perhaps the ur-example of this within the past few years: From what the dev team have said, though I'd still love if they were able to do more level design focused tutorials, they want to do cut-scene tutorials. If not done carefully, these tend to be some of the more pacing and immersion detrimental types of tutorials. This has been done well and poorly in the industry but its really hard to know which kind you are going to get before hand. To that end, the purpose of this topic is multifaced: - What are some examples of cutscene tutorials done well in gaming? What games did tutorials really well in general? What did you like about them? Do you think there are any lessons the Bloodstained dev team could take from them?
- Do you think there is another way to do the tutorials that is both better than cutscenes but easier than through level design (still the best)?
- What do you like to see in a tutorial to maximize effectiveness but minimize intrusiveness?
- What do you think are things that should be avoided to maximize effectiveness but minimize intrusiveness?
- What can be done to make them feel more world/narratively fitting and less immersion breaking (something teaching through level design excels at)
Previous Castlevanias haven't been much for tutorials. One exception that comes to mind, and I believe another poster had also mentioned, is Order of Ecclesia (see below starting about 6:30 minutes in):
Is this what Iga et al. have in mind for Bloodstained? I appreciate that they at least created a narrative context for why this tutorial makes sense in OoE - you are actually being taught by a teacher how to do things. With this in mind I had suggested in the E3 demo thread the following:
The narrative of Bloodstained basically goes Miriam starts the game after having woken up from a deep sleep right? Is it inconceivable that she wakes up, meets up with Johannes and then he offers her the option to do an OPTIONAL crash course of moves and techniques? "Hey Miriam you've just been asleep for a while and you may be both mentally and physically rusty. What to do some exercises before you head out?" Say yes and you do some tutorials; say no and you move on to Galleon Minerva. Simple, easy, people who need the tutorials get them and those who don't get to skip them wholesale. Win-win scenario no? A lot better than forced cutscenes or whatever. Even if the OoE example is what the dev team has in mind (which is only an assumption) there's no question even that can be improved upon (for example as I suggested above, the option to entirely skip the tutorial rather than having to mash through button presses if you are familiar already with the systems or if this isn't the first time you've played the game). This conversation was kind of ongoing in the E3 demo feedback thread but I thought it was important to split into its own topic to highlight the discussion and get a few more voices in. Even if you are not one to really use tutorials, they still have value (so plz no "I don't think there should be or I wish there weren't any tutorials at all"). What we can do is think of suggestions and ways to make them better. Bad tutorials, either because they don't tell you enough or they really get in the way of gameplay or whatever, are negative strikes against a game. Let's help to avoid that for this game (hopefully some of these concerns are already on their minds).
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Post by crocodile on Jun 28, 2016 23:25:22 GMT -6
Not everybody who is going to play Bloodstained has played a Metroidvania/Igavania before. This game will also have its own unique systems separate from previous Igavanias that could need, if not a thorough explanation, at least an introduction. The important thing is to not make sure such tutorials are not obnoxious or intrusive. Delivering it in a way that logically ties into the game narrative is also preferred (so it doesn't feel too "gamey"). The best way of course is to just do it through level design (see the Mega Man X and Shovel Knight examples I posted before). If you can't do that, then using Order of Ecclesia is a good example of it done decently well. The narrative of the story basically goes Miriam starts the game after having woken up from a deep sleep right? Is it inconceivable that she wakes up, meets up with Johannes and then he offers her the option to do an OPTIONAL crash course of moves and techniques? "Hey Miriam you've just been asleep for a while and you may be both mentally and physically rusty. What to do some exercises before you head out?" Say yes and you do some tutorials; say no and you move on to Galleon Minerva. Simple, easy, people who need the tutorials get them and those who don't get to skip them wholesale. Win-win scenario no? A lot better than forced cutscenes or whatever.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 28, 2016 9:50:21 GMT -6
Huh. I obviously didn't count but I can't say those are the issues I expected to rise to the top (or at least not in that order). I dunno if that is a priority list either 'cause like purifyweirdshard I would think the first issue would probably be the least important in the grand scheme of things I also wonder if mentions is "All mentions" or "All mentions to take action on Topic A in direction B" or what happens when a topic doesn't have a consensus opinion on it (which I assume must be true for some topics on this list since it looks to be true of a few points on the Top 5). Anyway, I'm sure the data must have been a pain to assemble but its important to collect and interpret. Thanks for the hard work and sorry we are all so chatty and made your job harder.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 28, 2016 1:20:22 GMT -6
Yeah but I already told you the appeal of it compared to things like the shard or soul system. You don't have to un-equip and equip something to use it. It's always there at your disposal. That's what makes them cool. I never liked that I had to keep switching things when I liked something. Always having Dark Metamorphosis to use whenever I needed it was a cool feeling. Now, I'm not saying i'd be hugely disappointed if it wasn't there as there's a lot of features I do love but there's a quality to not having to equip something. I could see like special curse spells that were with miriam to begin with, core special spells having input commands. If it's not there then it's not a big deal I just think it'd be cool. I also enjoy the challenge of doing a combination to make it happen because it makes me feel like I'm actually trying to perform a spell rather then just click a button and it happens. Alucard's spells (ability to drain blood, steal souls, shoot fire, summon apparitions, etc.) were all based on the fact he was a vampire (and of course the soul system wasn't invented yet). They had a narrative justification and I think you would need one for Miriam too - convenience isn't enough. Since her powers are derived from her curse, it seems hard (though not impossible of course) to justify magical abilities divorced from the shard system. BloodyTears92 and Crocy, yeah, that's a good point, but what we've already seen doesn't exclude the possibility of this for spells/abilities, either. I guess I haven't brought these up yet here, but they're some of the things I was thinking about in the context of Miriam having command special moves... The example I'm talking about is...do you remember the special moves update from around this time last year? All of those actions seemed more linked to Miriam herself, not demonic abilities, but more native to her as a character and available as a baseline. Recalling some of them: "Winestained" throw: Perhaps the one most everyone would remember. It's not really something that strikes you as a monster ability as it is, and was said to increase the effectiveness of other things. Sounds kind of like a Metamorphosis type spell/mode buff. Voltic Chain: A Gunvolt throwback more than anything I suppose, but part of its description specifically says "not a demonic ability". Magical Throne: This was noted as a method for -speeding up- the rate of MP recharging, so it having an MP consumption like a shard ability doesn't seem to make sense. These things seem like options separate from monster drops that she would have just after discovering them or even from the start. There could be more of them, too. That said, I would be completely fine with them just using special inputs only for weapons, or perhaps for specific shards. My main point though is that they seem to have accounted for moves that were independent of demon shards. Yeah those moves are a bit of an X-factor and we haven't heard or seen anything about them since the KS campaign. Voltic Chain is a bit hard to figure out - is it intended to be a screen-covering attack ala Gunvolt? As for "Winestained" and "Magical Throne", its very easy to imagine both as derived from like a shard dropped from some evil aristocrat or something. I recall Miriam being shown with a move to summon ghosts from her back but given the Amy shard in the demo, that's also something easy to assign to a shard. Since even special attacks from inputs would use MP, I'm not sure why that would disqualify the "Magical Throne" as a shard move - either way I'd imagine its a move that costs like 5-10 MP to use, you sit on it, and then recover 20 MP a second or something. To be frank though, I expect it to not be a very helpful because the game would have to put you in a situation where you have to use a lot of Magic but don't have much access to Ethers. That doesn't seem likely to happen? Maybe in Hard/Nightmare mode? But yeah, I'm still unsure what to make of that Voltic Chain. Special move attached to an electric whip? Move derived from a shard? Straight up special move? Hard to tell right now.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 27, 2016 18:55:16 GMT -6
I've heard really good things about Shantae. Never played it myself. I love Castlevania, but I dunno if I'd wanna get Shantae...? Is it worth my time to play? I've only played Shantae and the Pirate's Curse (which is the most recent game in the series that is out and the best one from what people say) and I really enjoyed it. Just has a lot of really solid action platforming with a strong Metroidvania base and lots of cool weapons that double as traversal abilities. I think the strongest aspect of the game is the characters and world. It's not afraid to occasionally break the fourth wall and even when things "get serious" in the narrative, the game isn't above having fun and being cheeky. I always thought the characters and world were appealing before I ever go to play a Shantae game, which is part of the reason I backed 1/2 Genie Hero without having played a game in the series, but playing Pirate's Curse reaffirmed that I had made the right choice. The fact that I became enamored with the world/characters is part of the reason I'd be hyped to see Shantae content in Bloodstained which I think is more likely than not given Inticreates relationship with the Shantae series - they are helping with 1/2 Genie Hero and helped on Pirate's Curse too - and the precedent set forth by the Shovel Armor.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 27, 2016 18:15:19 GMT -6
I agree that having them was fun in and of themselves and fleshed out Alucard's skillset, and I agree that stuff like that was just another layer of depth that IGA and his team put into SOTN, but honestly now that we have the demo and can see that Miriam has: -Weapons -Trigger spells -Directional spells -Passive buffs -Familiars -Whatever the "Effective" shard slot does I am now of a mind that having even MORE spells that are activated via commands is very unnecessary. Think about it this way: compared to characters like Soma or Shanoa, Alucard has a much more limited "box of toys". He has his two weapon slots, a subweapon, his familiars, his transformations and a handful of spells. The directional spells added a lot to that kit and gave Alucard a lot of flash and character, but Miriam? Its looking like she might have the biggest "box of toys" to date. Now obviously this is a very natural progression that IGA and crew have experiment with over the years, but I feel like the mechanic was good when it happened but is no longer needed. I could still get behind, say, each weapon class having a "special attack"; like the "Weapon Arts" from Dark Souls 3, (or the "critical attacks" from Dawn of Sorrow to list an in-series reference point) just for an example, but in light of what we've seen, pressing up/down/up/down/A+B to throw out yet more spells just doesn't seem needed considering the huge list of skills Miriam is looking to have. I'm inclined to agree that feature-bloat is a real concern. Special inputs tied to specific weapons such as the game's equivalent to the Shield Rod (if there is one); legendary weapons like the "Masamune" or "Hermes' Shoes" (I'm just making up examples here); Backer-created Weapons; the Katana that was voted for during the campaign (the Crissaegrim of the game), a "Lightning Legs" special when you have a specific set of shoes equipped, etc. are easy to justify. However, stuff like "Dark Metamorphosis" or "Hellfire" are things that the Shard system already covers that, as you pointed out, was not available in SOTN. @ Everyone: I think the likelihood of something like special inputs being implemented raises sharply if the focus is made more narrow (weapons and maybe interactions with familiars?) rather than broad because it then starts to become redundant with other systems.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 27, 2016 17:25:07 GMT -6
I don't think we have enough information at all to be "predicting" who the second and third playable character will be and I think its a bit dangerous to word the the topic title as such - it can easily lead to the spread of misinformation. We don't even have the full cast of the game (or very likely do not based on some of Iga's previous comments). Also you gotta work on the readability of your posts LeoLeWolferoux . Use more paragraphs or even bullet points. It's very hard to read your opening post as is
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Post by crocodile on Jun 27, 2016 13:31:48 GMT -6
Thanks for the translation. Not a ton of new info but some good tidbits in there nonetheless <3 I'm curious about the 1600 room count. SOTN's first castle was around 900+. So if Bloodstained is a one castle deal it's much bigger. Now if the 1600 is including a second castle than it's actually smaller. Now if there's a second castle and this is just the first castle count than this game will be tremendous. "IGA's Largest Castle" and "1600 rooms divided in two castles" are mutually exclusive statements. If you believe IGA when he says this is his biggest castle yet, and I think most of us do, then it can't be 1600 rooms divided in two but rather one large castle of 1600 rooms or a large castle of like 1400 rooms (whatever is bigger than his current biggest castle) and a small subsection like the Chaos Realm. Even then, those small subsections have always been considered part of the castle in the past so I don't know why that would change now. So I'm going with one large castle of about 1600 rooms.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 27, 2016 13:09:18 GMT -6
crocodile I'm sorry I can't type much at the moment. As my last short message here implies, we don't know how that poll information was used, if at all. Let's not pursue the efforts of giving suggestions in the manner of design requests and polls until we can be sure they are effective. I hate saying that. On an up note, we are absolutely certain the design team is paying attention to the feedback and suggestions on these boards. IGA himself has read things here. Most importantly the two current threads in the general Bloodstained section is being closely monitored. I'm assisting with compiling the feedback, but I'm only half way through the thread with my documentation. That's only my efforts that I'm spending time on just to help Mana, but she is doing her own due diligence on communicating directly with IGA. Typing on a phone all the time during the weekdays is tough. I'm sorry when I seem sort! Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as pushy with my questions. My bad. I guess sometimes I can be curious + impatient Well, like I said a few posts ago, I was thinking I would draft some bullet points soon. Crocodile and myself could collaborate on it. I feel like this is my baby and I've had a lot of input on it.
As far as usefulness to the team and what they can/can't do with the feedback, in the design review thread itself, Mana did say that it was useful to her when the topics do arise within the team. If and when this topic comes up, she has something easier to find that they can reference for our thoughts.
edit: This is that post of hers specifically, for those that may not have seen it/don't want to go hunting for it, bloodstainedfanforums.com/post/25396/thread Of course, I never would and never have done anything of the sorts without collaboration or running it through everyone here, especially parties that have put in a lot of investment into a topic such as yourself in this topic.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 27, 2016 12:35:14 GMT -6
Well, apparently we want this in the game (I know not everyone but many) so XombieMike submit this already (or not I'm not pushy lol). Anyway what kind of weapon specific actions are you guys looking forward to of Iga agrees to include this game mechanic in the bloodstained? I personally really want the multiple Rapier thrusts back (I really don't know what to call that). Has this had a design review request in the thread for that purpose? The first and last real request involved a large poll that we never got confirmation on if submitting it like that was communicated. The current threads being reviewed by official staff are the two feedback threads for bugs and suggestions. They include multiple posts with this suggestion for button sequence attacks. I double checked the Design Review Request thread because I assumed something of the sorts got written up (probably by me LOL) but no there actually isn't something of the sort written in there. I think there was a summary post written on Weapons but according to that thread it was written by you but never shared publicly - I and others have never seen it. If you want, I can write up this thread sometime later today into a formal request and tag Mana. As an aside, that poll we did for the Castle was super cool and a good community building exercise though I have no idea how much of that feedback actually made it back to the team and how much of that they thought were good ideas and are on track to be implemented. Since I know you arranged that with Mana/FanGamer I guess the question to you is if something similar to that is going to happen again soon? I know there were other topics we wanted to cover and the earlier this feedback is assembled, the more likely and easier it is to implement in the game (assuming the dev team thinks they are good ideas - they are free to and should reject anything they think is dumb or not feasible). Or, as you kind of said, they are too busy with the E3 demo feedback?
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Post by crocodile on Jun 26, 2016 19:10:10 GMT -6
Nice work on the color modifications! I assume what you are doing now will strongly replicate what the official "Customize" system will do when its implemented in the game proper: As for Vepar color changes, I frankly don't think dulling her colors as has been done here has made the boss more "fitting" or whatever else people were complaining about. Default color Vepar is still the best.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 26, 2016 16:35:08 GMT -6
More thoughts on the demo +Background Elements: I know we mentioned it on the forums so I dunno how much of that was accepting feedback and thinking it was actually a good idea and how much of it was something you were already going to do anyway (I figure its the latter though) but stuff like the boss bursting through part of the ship to spit Seamas at you or when it hits the ship to drop part of the mast to make a platform are just amazing touches. It's stuff like that which helps make the world feel more alive and I hope to see a lot more of those things in future parts of the game. +Miriam Poses: I'm sure there are things that can be touched up (I'm not sure I saw it but I think a few mentioned some weird shaking on her rigging) but I'm really liking the personality a lot of these poses exude. The "sassy" idle, the "combat ready" stances, etc. I'm sure I mentioned this before but seeing it more in person and in context of the game reaffirmed my opinion. Animation can add a lot to the personality of a character or enemy (see below) so I think its good these aspects seem to be in a good place. +Enemy Design and Hitboxes: I thought the concept designs were neat but seeming them actually realized within the 3D engine was something else entirely. I think you guys did a great job with the models and most of their animations. The Dullahammer with its Sea Urchin motif is my favorite one. I also think you did a great job on the boss too. I think there might be a worthwhile debate on if you've chosen the best color scheme or not or if the textures sell the "goopey water monster" thing or not - I don't think I have a strong enough opinion on either side to really sell them or push for them. From what I can tell from the intention of the bosses design (referencing the demon Vepar, taking inspiration from a variety of "beautiful" and "grotesque" sea legends of ill-repute such as Mermaids, Sirens and Krakens, a "mother" of the sea who spawns evil such as the Seama, etc.) I think you guys nailed it. I know certain aspects of the design aren't appealing to a small few and I absolutely respect those opinions but I disagree with them for the reasons I just outlined and I think you should "stay the course" so to speak in that regard for this enemy or other similar enemies in the future. Something I also noticed - mostly on the boss but also on at least the Dullahammer enemy - is that if you strike different parts of the enemy that you deal different amounts of damage. Where the weakest/strongest parts of an enemy also made complete sense logically. You've had a few bosses in the past where they only had a specific weakpoint and the rest of them were invulnerable but for most bosses, and I want to say all enemies, it didn't matter overall where you hit them. I think finding ways to make the combat more dynamic and cerebral in this game without inducing potentially pacing-breaking and often poor feeling combo systems has been a challenge but this seems to be a good way to encourage players to change their approach to a confrontation without adding such clunky new systems. I approve and I hope we see more of this, especially in the normal enemies. +Treasure Chests: I like both how they are color coded (Green for Equipment, Red for Health Items) and how quickly it is to retrieve items from them. In and out, speedy and easy <3 +-Tutorials: I wasn't the biggest fan of how prompts would forcibly pause the action but I understand the reasoning - to make sure people actually read the text. Overall, its not a particularly intrusive tutorial, I can't complain much. However I saw in the update that you were interested in doing cutscenes for the tutorials? That makes me a bit apprehensive. The best tutorial levels (for focusing on basic stuff) are the ones where the level design teach you want you need to know more so than prompts (see Mega Man X or Shovel Knight for a more recent examples). If you absolutely have to do cutscene tutorials, please make them totally skippable and non-obnoxious at least. Still I'd try to follow the Shovel Knight model mentioned above if that is at all possible/feasible. It might not be but at least it something worth considering - its so amazing when done well. -Move Effects: The splash effect from the Cerulean Splash move and the fire effect from the Fire Cannon move both look rather anemic. As did the "water laser" attack from the boss. I don't have the vocabulary to article how I think they could/should be improved but if you have the time and resources to take a second look at them I'd suggest y'all do so. -Backdash Momentum: When you jump out of a backdash, you seem to lose all your momentum? I'm not a big fan of that and I feel is a negative change from previous games. Kind of reminds me of the jump momentum change from Smash Bros Melee to Smash Bros Brawl and that was kind of met with mostly negative reaction. Is there a real gameplay reason for this change or just something you guys didn't think about? -Enemy AI: I know many people have already said this but I feel I should add my voice to the choir. The enemy AI was rather poor. I can understand why (unfinished demo, lots of new & unskilled players at an event like E3, no save points, etc.) but the enemies and boss were hardly what I'd call aggressive or even mildly challenging. Even among SOTN diehards they recognize that one of the biggest flaws of that game was how super easy it was. I'd try to avoid making that mistake again. To talk a bit more specifically, is there a reason the fire shot on the Demon Cannon has such short range? Their "ancestors", the Bone Pillars, would fire shots that moved across the entire screen. Also the way the Dullahammer swings its head - I dunno if that is more realistic and so that's the reason why you did that but otherwise it leaves huge gaps in its attack that kind of hurts its effectiveness. -Miriam's Model: I think all the good aspects of her model have already been mentioned so I'll touch upon a few negatives. Her hair seems to lack any sorts of physics. Was that your intention (maybe makes it easier for the "Customize" system) or is that something you're going to add in later? Her expressions also mostly static. I guess it wasn't so bad during normal gameplay, but probably could be more expressive, but I think the bigger concern may be the cutscene where it was unusually static. I could imagine that being a problem in future cutscenes. Finally, there is a decent amount of clipping in spots - especially the ribbons/scarf and how they interacted with the rest of Miriam or the environment. I recall a few spots where Miriam clipped through walls too. Maybe that's a weakness of the 3D engine that can't be overcome but clipping was pretty bad in SFV and it would be nice to try to avoid that here (if its possible). -Screen Transitions: The transitions between screens look more jarring than I can recall from previous games. Maybe its that brief flash where the screen goes all black? Is it a loading issue? Moving back and forth between screens quickly feels like it messes with my eyes in a way screen transitions haven't done in previous Igavanias. Is there any way to make these transitions smoother? I know looking through all this feedback from all these people, parsing out what is and isn't helpful, etc. must be a huge pain in the ass. I just want to say thank you Mana for all your work. We all appreciate it <3
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Post by crocodile on Jun 26, 2016 6:10:12 GMT -6
First off I reject the notion that just because not every enemy might have a shard that there will be a dearth of shards and special abilities. It matters less that 100% of monsters have shards (and you even mentioned examples of past games where not every enemy had a soul drop) and more that there is a good number of shard and abilities at all and that they play well. IGA gave a very clear, narrative-driven reason for Morte to not have a shard. I mean of course you don't have to like it or agree but this was something with thought put into it not just a random design decision or one with potentially serious flaws. So while you can be disappointed, respect the creator's decision?
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