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Post by Question on Mar 2, 2020 15:13:41 GMT -6
Hey, everyone! As you may have noticed, we are no longer doing an update on the last Thursday of each month. Now that the game has launched, we are going to shift to smaller KS updates that occur when info is ready rather than waiting for a specific day. The monthly schedule worked well pre-launch, but it isn’t suitable for a live product. Going forward you may get an update from just Fangamer or ArtPlay or 505, or a combo of the three. The goal is to provide info to backers when it is relevant and ready, and not just because it is time. There need to be fewer “Updates about updates” and more updates that are interesting and informative along with announcements that have concrete info. For those who want to only follow KS updates and not any of the social channels, we will collect important live info and repost here in digest form when needed. With that said, here are some updates! Game Mode Changes
One of the promised stretch goals for the game was Roguelike. Unfortunately, the code that was created early in the game’s development is not currently compatible with this type of gameplay (especially a procedurally generated castle). Due to this, we regret to announce that we will not be developing Roguelike as part of the project's planned stretch goals. We know this is a mode that many of you were eagerly anticipating and we apologize that we will not be able to make it happen as planned. We don’t want to leave a hole in the roster, so we have developed a new game mode called “Randomizer” to take its place. Randomizer will launch with Zangetsu and be available for free. Details on Randomizer are laid out below. Boss Revenge Mode
On Discord, “Boss Revenge” mode had previously been mentioned as launching at the same time as Zangetsu. This statement was made in error. Boss Revenge is scheduled for the content update that follows Zangetsu and Randomizer. Switch News
Switch players may have already noticed the 1.04 update that went live in January. While this was the last Switch update focused primarily on performance, we are not done working to improve the platform. Switch has come a long way since launch and we are happy with the progress it has made, but there is still more to do (especially in large rooms/dragon towers). We will continually roll out enhancements along with content updates to make the experience as smooth as possible. Content Cadence
Switch 1.04 brought all the platforms (PC, PS4, Xbox and Switch) into ‘Content Parity’, which is a fancy way to say that they all have the same stuff. This was a big milestone for the game. When all the platforms are at the same place, it makes future updates easier to manage. The production teams can all work on the same content and release updates on a schedule with shorter gaps between them. Randomizer Mode Details
Randomizer is the story campaign you’re used to, but with a twist. Before starting a game, players can choose up to eight different game parameters to be randomized during the playthrough. As an example, “Items - Retain Method” means that items will be found in the same spawn method (chest, mob drop, etc.) as normal. Items found in chests will still be found in chests, they will just get mixed around. “Total random” means anything can drop anywhere. The mode will ensure safeguards to ensure that items needed to complete the game will be obtainable, so you can’t softlock your progress. Once you make your selections, you can generate a seed that you can use for reference or to share with someone else. In addition, a timer will track your progress through the game and display your completion time at the end of a run. We hope that everyone will enjoy the new mode and work to get the shortest clear time possible for your permutations! More details to come! As always, we appreciate the patience that everyone has shown as we improve the game on all platforms and work on new content! Jason ”Question” Ryan Sr Community Manager - 505 Games |
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Post by Seta on Mar 2, 2020 15:54:11 GMT -6
One of the promised stretch goals for the game was Roguelike. Unfortunately, the code that was created early in the game’s development is not currently compatible with this type of gameplay Makes me worry about 2 player mode, not only is it my most desired stretch goal but i know many people bought the game because it said Co Op on the box/description |
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Post by zero on Mar 2, 2020 17:33:57 GMT -6
Not going to lie this update killed all my interest in future content. Still a good game and all but it's time for me to move on, thanks for the good times everyone.
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Post by gradius on Mar 2, 2020 18:42:51 GMT -6
Not going to lie this update killed all my interest in future content. Still a good game and all but it's time for me to move on, thanks for the good times everyone. Likewise. Besides, things aren't looking hot, to be honest... Even the Co-op tag had been silently offed from Steam, some time ago. |
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Post by gradius on Mar 2, 2020 18:49:49 GMT -6
One of the promised stretch goals for the game was Roguelike. Unfortunately, the code that was created early in the game’s development is not currently compatible with this type of gameplay Makes me worry about 2 player mode, not only is it my most desired stretch goal but i know many people bought the game because it said Co Op on the box/description Sometime ago, the Co Op tag was silently deleted from Steam. No comment on the matter, ever appeared. Following recent turn of events, it shouldn't be hard to imagine how the rest of the story goes, henceforth. The things we are going to get are in most probability to be small/simple, content-wise, as far as hypothesis goes (ex Zangetsu being like a Richter run, boss revenge which already was said to contain only four bosses, etc). And other(s) removed. Silence is never a good sign. Or failing to meet a steady information meeting, without having to report stuff; not even approximately. Many people's fears had been true, alas. This is no Hollow or Shover Knight level job done, alas. |
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Post by Yän on Mar 2, 2020 19:19:43 GMT -6
Well that's a shame, was really looking forward to what they may come up with regarding this mode. Wish they could do level layout or at least enemy spawn randomization for this one to make things more interesting and actually different for each playthrough. This is something that has been achieved by fan modders with the NDS Vanias so I'm not sure why it can't be done here by the actual team that made this game. Especially area layout randomization is what makes those randomizer runs of the DS games truly interesting and a new unique experience.
Just goes to show that you should never announce something for which you don't have a precise plan on how to or if you will include it in your game. As others have stated, with a well managed project, this should have been apparent way earlier. As such, communication of this at an earlier date would have been nice. At least then the community could still have had the time to pitch ideas on how to make the randomizer mode as cool and interesting as possible.
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Post by ovenkitty on Mar 2, 2020 20:58:01 GMT -6
Disappointed, but not surprised. I had already decided not to back again if the sequel was crowd-funded. If they drop anymore modes I'm not even going to bother buying the sequel, if it comes out.
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Post by Cale on Mar 2, 2020 22:37:30 GMT -6
I am surprised people even consider buying a non-funded game by Igarashi again.
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Post by mourningxsun on Mar 2, 2020 23:07:58 GMT -6
Man, the publisher is working overtime to get me to not like this game.
Boss Rush: Somehow mangled beyond all belief.
Boss Revenge: From the tidbit we got from the discord, it looks like an afterthought that I'll maybe play once for ten minutes and never touch again.
Rougelite: Shitcanned
Randomizer: Can't even randomize enemies
Zangetsu: Month ... uh ... nine since announcement. Still don't even have a date. This isn't even like Shovel Knight where the new characters have their own campaign. It's just a new character in the same castle. This genuinely baffles me.
I really hope that 505 doesn't have the audacity to still come out with paid DLC in the future like was originally hinted at.
Honestly, my goodwill for this game is gone at this point and it's just not coming back.
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Post by caer on Mar 3, 2020 0:34:54 GMT -6
Sad for Rougelike, but hype for randomizer! I was thinking a rougelike would probably not be out for another 2 years realistically and it was already a tall order to make it something really good. I'm very happy that they added a randomizer instead of just dropping the idea altogether, and even more pleased that it will be the first thing to drop. I assume something like this would have popped up on PC at some point anyway, but it's great that I'll get to use one as well, since I only have the game on PS4.
Random enemy spawns would be a very cool option to have by the way. I doubt that I'd use it very much, because it seems like it would be incredibly oppressive in a lot of seeds, but the option would be cool.
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Post by gradius on Mar 3, 2020 2:58:00 GMT -6
If they drop anymore modes I'm not even going to bother buying the sequel, if it comes out. If they drop anymore modes I'm not even going to bother pirating the sequel, if it comes out. |
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Post by NightmareGamma on Mar 3, 2020 3:37:36 GMT -6
Not going to lie this update killed all my interest in future content. Still a good game and all but it's time for me to move on, thanks for the good times everyone. Likewise. Besides, things aren't looking hot, to be honest... Even the Co-op tag had been silently offed from Steam, some time ago. Well the reason why that could have made is not because it won't be coming at all, but that it won't be coming as soon as they hoped for, making this more or less false advertising adding the co-op label on something that doesn't have a co-op mode for nearly over a year! They expected to release both co-op and Zangetsu in the first couple months after release, but thanks to the busted Switch version everything got delayed to a point where it is not certain when something gets released, if even. So it might be that they removed the Co-op Tag because Co-op not coming out as soon as expected and thus they didn't wanted to (false) advertise the game. Does not have to mean that it was canned though... |
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Post by ovenkitty on Mar 3, 2020 3:43:50 GMT -6
NightmareGamma That could very well be the case, but this is a pattern we've seen before.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Mar 3, 2020 3:58:49 GMT -6
One of the promised stretch goals for the game was Roguelike. Unfortunately, the code that was created early in the game’s development is not currently compatible with this type of gameplay Makes me worry about 2 player mode, not only is it my most desired stretch goal but i know many people bought the game because it said Co Op on the box/description Roguelike was mine. This sucks.I try to avoid getting overly critical of this game and the team behind it. I genuinely felt like they often got way too much flak for things that didn't matter too much, or for honest mistakes. And the base game is pretty fun. But this is seriously damaging to our trust. This wasn't just any stretch goal. This was the penultimate one, the last one they had stored up before they had to come up with Boss Revenge very suddenly. This was the bottom of the basement, the big FIVE MILLION DOLLAR goal. This was the big shebang! And it's not like other goals we've lost where it just was silly and/or unfeasible to continue to pursue, like the Wii U and Vita ports (and after the Switch's launch we probably dodged a bullet there really.) This is something that should have been here. It should be here. These goals were being busted so fast they could barely catch up. The game won the record for the most successful video game Kickstarter campagin at the time. And development on the game had barely even begun yet, to the point that it took four more years before we finally got it in our hands. There was plenty of time to prepare for this function. Especially since a staggered release of the goals supposedly wasn't the plan from the beginning. I am very disappointed, because this was going to be the biggest update for providing replay value to the game. This was the biggest update to look forward to. It was the biggest thing that was going to set it apart from the previous Vanias. It was the biggest thing to continue the life of the game. Instead we got a loot randomizer. That ain't it fam. I'm very disappointed, so maybe I'm being overly critical than I should be. But I'm looking at this thread and it seems like a lot of folks who were like me, strong supporters of this game and trying to give it the benefit of the doubt, have been really let down today. I've got very little to look forward to now. What was a mode that I could see myself playing again and again and again and getting really absorbed into just got replaced with a little gadget that honestly looks a lot more frustrating than fun. Oh boy it's the same exact game except now all the items are no longer in logical places and I gotta trial and error my way to victory! Zangetsu might be fun. Third character might be fun. I have zero faith in Boss Revenge or the multiplayer modes. Seems like the Bloodstained train is just about over for me. Not out with a bang, but a whimper. I'm sorry, I know that's harsh but... what can I say? The biggest most exciting part of the future of this game for me just got trashed. |
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Post by NightmareGamma on Mar 3, 2020 5:10:14 GMT -6
lovelydumpling I understand how you feel. This is the reason why I usually have no faith in Kickstarter Games, more often than not turn they out to be turds. Don't get me wrong, The base Game is actually pretty damn good, which was a surprise, and I did not regret my buy. However, I also bought it without looking up the Stretchgoals. simply put, I didn't even knew about the Roguelike mode until today, so it did not hit me that hard. However, I see why backers or people that bought the game especially for the promised stretch goals are disappointed and/or pissed off. I really wish developers would not promise things without thinking first and see if they are possible to even implement...
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Post by gradius on Mar 3, 2020 10:23:39 GMT -6
lovelydumpling I understand how you feel. This is the reason why I usually have no faith in Kickstarter Games, more often than not turn they out to be turds. Don't get me wrong, The base Game is actually pretty damn good, which was a surprise, and I did not regret my buy. However, I also bought it without looking up the Stretchgoals. simply put, I didn't even knew about the Roguelike mode until today, so it did not hit me that hard. However, I see why backers or people that bought the game especially for the promised stretch goals are disappointed and/or pissed off. I really wish developers would not promise things without thinking first and see if they are possible to even implement... To be fair, it was Master Iga's first project (as a creator?) and he wasn't backed up by a giant like Konami. Still though, the resources had been outstanding. This game had potential. I believe if somebody else developed this game, like say Team Cherry or something... We would have lost count of the extra content added excessively or for free (call me second playable character receiving an entire game of its own, main game being updated by piles of extra content without charging you extras, etc). And i almost regret backing. Normal buyers got access to it SOONER, a bit CHEAPER and didn't receive their things scattered across 3 different services (Steam-GOG-Fangamer). I own Curse of the Moon on Steam (what sh_tshow that one was, pulling a last minute stunt to take a dump on DRM-Free version -which had been PROMISED- and backers!), ROTN on GOG, soundtrack and artwork/guide (which isn't even a guide, but a manual!) on Fangamer!!! I don't mind extra time and money, but this was actually a poor investment. Game IS good, but not hitting the spot of the initial vision/design (by a long mile). It had the best foundations to be raised into THE masterpiece, No1 in the genre. This feels more of a waste actually, instead of a rip-off, really. |
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Post by browren on Mar 3, 2020 12:47:03 GMT -6
One of the promised stretch goals for the game was Roguelike. Unfortunately, the code that was created early in the game’s development is not currently compatible with this type of gameplay (especially a procedurally generated castle). Due to this, we regret to announce that we will not be developing Roguelike as part of the project's planned stretch goals. Oooooh look, more "technical reasons." Your business manager is a real one-trick, huh? LOL.
So, pray tell, WHY is it "not currently compatible" with a feature that we paid extra to get and that had been promised since day one? And why if it's not *currently* compatible, you aren't working on making it compatible, seeing how you asked for extra money to get that feature added??
Here, let me save you the time responding too. Question is just going to say "We're not at liberty to discuss technical details." Because there really aren't any valid ones, just more pointy-haired manager excuses for why spending 505's money to meet Kickstarter obligations is "impossible". What a joke.
Tell you what though, pick a programming language and I'll write you up a map generator in two weeks, for free. Or maybe have your devs go read the NetHack source. It's not hard.
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Post by dahvoo on Mar 3, 2020 13:08:24 GMT -6
Tell you what though, pick a programming language and I'll write you up a map generator in two weeks, for free. Or maybe have your devs go read the NetHack source. It's not hard.
It would be funny if steam/PC community adds a roguelike mod to the game just to show the devs are skimping on content. I wasn't looking forward to roguelike as much as others, but sucks for those that really wanted it. At least devs are offering something new with randomizer so that's something I guess. I'm more interested in Zangetsu, 3rd playable character, and local 2 player co-op. We know we are getting Zangetsu, but who knows if/when we get the rest. |
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Post by Sindra on Mar 3, 2020 14:27:31 GMT -6
Oooooh look, more "technical reasons." Your business manager is a real one-trick, huh? LOL.
Imagine that; a game that broke records on Kickstarter for how huge a campaign it was that had to come up with all of this extra content in a span of literally a month....has technical problems.
Look, I'm disappointed in their canning Roguelike Mode too, and it does shake my desire to continue to give them benefit of the doubt. However, the fact remains, that so many of these extra modes were likely never thought up when they launched the original crowdfunding campaign, and likely the devs got together quickly and put their heads together and said "Okay, this is something we should be able to do and we have time to figure out the details" and they released it in order to incentivize the campaign. (Because let's face it; why the hell wouldn't they want to keep pushing incentive ideas if it kept money coming in?)
I have zero doubt in my mind that the devs had good reason to believe they could do a lot of the things they set out to do in the campaign. And sometimes in gaming, a roadblock is hit that no matter what they try, they can't get past. If they thought they could get past it with time, I'm sure they would have shuffled it to release at a later update rather than have to admit defeat and have to back out of something they were sure they could do. I know no team that wants the people who championed their product to hate them because they have no good answers and can only apologize.
But hey, if you have the ability to throw together a solid map generator that they could actually use with their engine to make this mode a reality, and do it for free as you say, I'm sure they'd love to have your help. Or you can be the cool asshole who makes the mod for Steam.
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Post by RichterB on Mar 3, 2020 15:13:29 GMT -6
Never been a huge fan of roguelikes, so not a big loss for me and I think the Randomizer is a nice consolation. The Classic Mode is something I'll be more upset about if it gets lost in the mix.
Glad to hear there'll still be some tweaks done for Switch. A lot's been going on in my life, and I still haven't gotten to play the game at all yet (beyond the betas). So when I do get to play it, it'll be nice to know it'll be the best experience possible on the hardware.
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