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Post by saberwolf94 on May 23, 2019 18:17:34 GMT -6
Saw this among the angry comments on Kickstarter: "Slipcase is inferior to Steel books."
Someone tell Mana she's got a fan who says her art is superior to Ayami Kojima's! If I remember well, there is a backer slipcase at 60 USD and Ayami Kojima slipcase at 100 USD reward. I think they are referring to the first one. In my opinion backer in-game content should have stayed exclusive as a special bonus, wink, thank you..Even without that the game is complete, this was supposed to be just this special thing for backers that not everyone would care about in order to get full experience of the game. There will be so many bonus modes anyway. I guess it all comes to money in the end and it will discourage many people from backing future kickstarter projects. You're correct. To take someone's word, whether as a business transaction (which this kind of is) or from person to person and they go back on that, it's an attack on your pride and dignity to trust them again. I love IGA to death and I bet at this point many things are out of his control, but I won't back a future project if it happens as this isn't something you give second chances to, I have some pride and dignity. I'll just wait at the end and avoid the stress.
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Post by saberwolf94 on May 23, 2019 18:52:15 GMT -6
Overlord Some things to remember is that 505 did not make the decision to make the content exclusive and that plans change, by your logic since they "promised" a Wii U version there should be no Switch version and they should be selling a Wii U game in 2019. At the very least your not actually losing anything. Also there are plenty of backers that wanted the content to be available to all, it wasn't solely none backers. While it's silly to think that 505/Artplay won't be happy about the extra money, it's equally silly (to me) to think that this was done to weasel out an extra $32 out of some 20,000+ people. No one tried to rip you off, your money went into make a game that will be out in less then a month. You are correct. Which is why since multiple compromises were made they wouldn't go back on their word for this too. At the very least, I can sympathize with them going the pragmatic route with the Wii U and Vita (despite being a vita backer for the digital version) with the Wii U being a sacrifice for the Switch and Vita being dead as well by the time the game would come out with all the delays. This isn't a fair comparison with the backer exclusive content and it is invalid to say backers don't lose anything anyway. They're exercising their ability to do this because they can, weighing the minor cons with all the pros, the choice between avoiding alienating every potential buyer that wasn't a backer or keeping a promise that pragmatically could hinder sales. They wouldn't do this if this was a legal contract. My or anyone else's feeling don't matter, it is in their hands to have the resolve and keep a tough promise. They didn't and to be fair, I sympathize, they're a company at the end of the day. However, I refuse to be painted as a villain for having the decency to expect someone to keep their word after asking for my trust and then receiving it. It isn't "petty" or "silly" of me to have at least some basic pride and dignity.
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Post by saberwolf94 on May 23, 2019 19:04:15 GMT -6
Overlord I stand by my arguments, my point wasn't about refunds my point was that plans change and that we made investments not pre ordered already existing products. Regardless the decisions made so I won't argue the point. I do sincerely regret you feel cheated but I'm glad the content will be available to all and will help increase the success of the game. I've seen alot of hot head on the Kickstarter comments section going on how they are going to tell all their friends not to back the game because the content didn't stay exclusive so I felt I should provide a counter voice. I agree that those with the mentality of telling others not try out/buy this game are wrong as 505 going back on their word with the backers has nothing to do with the quality of the game or its value when it comes to price and content for non backers. If anything, we should encourage non backers to take advantage of this since they can. The problem is that this situation exists in the first place.
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Post by saberwolf94 on May 23, 2019 19:14:05 GMT -6
Overlord : Maybe you missed the survey but we (backers) agreed on selling the exclusive staff as DLC by a landslide! No numbers were presented to me for the survey, just them generalizing that's what happened and from what I heard the survey wasn't exclusive to just backers but anyone who wanted to vote. Whether that last part is true or not they clearly haven't reliably proved the result to us and either way that survey went against what was promised in the first place.
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Post by saberwolf94 on May 23, 2019 19:20:05 GMT -6
This is all good news to me. Not only is content intended to be kept in, it's quality is an important factor for the team. Furthermore, I view games as works of art, the overwhelming majority of which is given to the public. I'd feel it would be a shame if the public couldn't enjoy or appreciate certain pieces because of exclusivity. Who am I going to geek out with if only a handful of people got to experience this exclusive thing? All my excitement would turn to loneliness as nobody I know would have enjoyed it as well. What then, years later, as our copies are lost or destroyed? All that work put in and even fewer can enjoy or remember it. So I just want to say, good work to everyone who worked on this game. Those years spent will be much appreciated. You're right, all of this could have been avoided if they didn't say X content would be exclusive. They chose not to do that however. It's a matter of pride. Also it's not like half the game was backer exclusive.
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Post by caer on May 23, 2019 19:25:46 GMT -6
Super stoked for release! So few games out there now with this kind of focus on just tons of bespoke content. Can't wait to find it all! Everything I've seen for the last couple of months have looked really good. I'm out of the country and can't play for an extra month after release, but it's nice to have something to look forward to =D
One Question: is the "Chaos mode" advertised in the update the same as "Nightmare mode", or is this something else that I totally missed?
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Post by roguedragon05 on May 23, 2019 19:26:28 GMT -6
saberwolf94 Nothing is gained by keeping the exclusivity... there I said it..... I know your point of view was that a promise has been broken but my point of view is that a promise that doesn't serve the greater good of making the best product possible isn't worth keeping. People within the backer community (myself included) did not want the content to remain exclusive and yes I can say it's invalid to say backers don't lose anything because it's true, the word "exclusive" is removed from the equation nothing more, you get all the content you were promised show me that this isn't true and I'll withdraw that point but you can't, you can tell me that your not happy about the decision and you regret backing at $60 when you could've gotten it cheaper but no matter how you feel about it your still going to be able to play everything you expected to be able to play when you get the game. The people that say "But I PAID $32 extra dollars for my exclusivity!" It's an investment not buying a finished product you should have known the risk and not gambled with more money then you felt comfortable losing. You still help make the game possible, you still got access to demo's and insider knowledge of the project, and the opportunity to help to shape the direction of the project. My point about the Wii U comparison was that there is a point where keeping a promise in detrimental to the greater whole. I am genuinely regretful that you feel like you got cheated but I'm glad things turned out the way they did. I for one think it's fine that you are complaining that you don't like whats being done, I don't think that that in itself is "petty or silly", however there are a great many of people that think like you do that are being childish and detrimental to the project now because they didn't get exactly what they wanted, (Neither have I in the past but I never told anyone to not buy the game or threatened to harm the projects success because of it) EDIT: I'm glad to hear your not one of those people but "I'M NOT going to apologize either for providing a counter voice when I believe that the best result happened. So in closing as I've said before we made an investment with good faith promises made, and for the most part those promises have been kept and that proves the "good faith bit" on 505's part, of all the things to be disappointed about with this campaign the loss of $32 4 years ago and the word exclusive on your tier, seems to me (I'm not asking you to agree) a minor loss in the grand scheme.
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Post by Dragon_of_Dojima on May 23, 2019 19:33:57 GMT -6
Oh boy, what an update... The way I personally voted was for most backer exclusive stuff to be available to everyone eventually...for a price. Not available from the get go, so I'm comfortable in knowing what my own choice was. That clearly was not the result. That does sting. I have said time and time again to the point that I'm a complete broken record: "I prefer that they delay, polish, and work on a game until it shines as bright as it possibly can from the get go." That means complete story, as complete of modes as possible, lower possibility of bugs...and despite that sounding strange or impossible in 2019, it has happened. It seems like they are going with the Wayforward/Shantae approach, but not as scummy.(Overall terrible DLC design, not offering upgrade paths for early adopters...or even a discount, etc.) It looks like another Hat in Time situation where that game got all of content that was backed plus a random online mode that was NEVER planned in the first place. That's great! As long as everything content wise comes out as we have clearly asked for by backing this game to high heaven, then staggered FREE DLC is more than welcome. I do feel alright that my name gets in the credits, being a small part in starting a project, and I do like Iga. (I backed a total of about 125 which includes upgrading my initial tier 3 times. My initial pledge was 30 or so, then upgraded to 60, then upgraded to 100, and then adding 25 more for the hell of it) 40 bucks and getting everything I got minus some physical goodies...kind of burns a bit. I backed in the first place for the exclusive stuff. I'm not saying "I regret backing this game at all and I'm going to pirate or whatever", what I am saying is that this approach was definitely not the best and I am a bit disappointed at this situation. It is what it is.Again, I point at worse kickstarters such as Yooka Laylee, Mighty No. 9, and Freedom Planet( the latter two in particular as far as stretch goals just NOT being met) and say this could be a lot worse. Not an excuse, but a comfortable thought. I trust Iga, so I say good luck with the game launch.
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Post by roguedragon05 on May 23, 2019 19:46:56 GMT -6
So I'm assuming the PS4 exclusive theme is only going to be available to people that actually pre-order a digital copy on PS4 and that no compromise with Sony can/could/was tried to be reached for PS4 backers? That sucks if that's the case. Small matter I know but still as a PS4 backer I would have enjoyed.
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Post by caer on May 23, 2019 20:03:24 GMT -6
roguedragon05: According to Purifyweirdshard, it has been said that PS4 backers will all (most likely) get the theme as well.
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Post by zero on May 23, 2019 21:29:25 GMT -6
I'm saddened to see all the negativity surrounding this. Kickstarter is an investment not a pre order and things change. We're about to receive the culmination of a community come together that collectively created something we've been missing for almost a decade and all people can do is whine about a boss and a weapon that'll rarely get used?
Come on, maybe now you'll get an opportunity to share these wonderful things with your friends instead of rubbing it in their faces. There was never any misdirection on this and it was very clear from the beginning.
If I had it my way everyone would have had this included with the base game but that's neither here nor there. I promise you guys won't remember this relatively small controversy in a few months. Just relax and enjoy the game.
So much in this update overshadowed by nothing.
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Post by Scars Unseen on May 23, 2019 22:12:02 GMT -6
I just wanted to say that "nontroversy" is my new favorite word.
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Post by kamuiarikado on May 23, 2019 23:04:37 GMT -6
People on the Internet complaining about imaginary problems™ Episode: 385,700,432,154,444. #endthememeversy
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Post by Aztec on May 24, 2019 0:40:29 GMT -6
roguedragon05: According to Purifyweirdshard, it has been said that PS4 backers will all (most likely) get the theme as well. Cue the Xbox/Switch/PC backers whining now that they should get something to even out PS4 players getting a damn theme. And yes I’m a PS4 backer and that theme would be awesome but if i didn’t get it it’s not the end of the world nor is it worth time or effort to demand for it.
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Post by roguedragon05 on May 24, 2019 1:12:10 GMT -6
I just don't wanna be prodding the dog at this point, the fact is the decisions been made regardless how anyone feels about it, and they had a right to express their disappointment and while some went too far with it the matter also needs to be allowed to drop so we can move onto more positive matters...
So far as the Xbox/etc. complaining that PS4 gets unique themes, that not a unique issue to Bloodstained, it's a common Sony practice to incentivise digital sales That would be like complaining about not being able to play God of War on your Xbox. I've seen a demo of the theme on YouTube it's very nice I will definitely use it if I can get my hands on it.
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Post by Starsmith on May 24, 2019 1:42:12 GMT -6
Huh. Can’t say I’m happy to have paid $60 for something I could have gotten for $50 retail. I don’t really care if the backer exclusives stayed that way, but knowing I paid the $60 figuring they would be exclusive, only to find out if I’d waited, I could have got it for $50...yeah. Not happy about that.
Backed at $60 digital, and would never have bought the retro game. So...you’re welcome for the extra $10, 505. I was actually thinking of buying a second copy for my Switch, but hell if I will now.
I’ll be happy to play it soon, at least. It really does look good.
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Post by sylver on May 24, 2019 3:45:37 GMT -6
When importing these two shipments, the tax import post office will ask me for a receipt and I will have to show the same receipt twice. OK, this is something I also would like to know. Since Kickstarter was a donation, it shouldn't legaly wise count as an ordinary purchase.. the items sent, aren't bought, they are more of a gift of gratitude.. (my english is a bit laggy here, I hope you get my point) Do we have to pay tax for them? ... This was my first KS Project with physical items, so I am a virgin on this. BTT About the negativity here.. oh man, up until that update, which in my eyes sounds sincere, everything up until now went smooth. So what has changed? ... Some small content, which was funded by us, can be purchased by anyone, who proly won't give a poop about, cause they won't even understand the meaning behind it.. wow, that's really hard.. I mean this won't make earth stop turning around, but hey.. this is like a world war 5 or something similar.. Why can't we just be happy? The most exciting KS-project is about to launch, why the hell do we need to get upset about something so trivial? I can only pity you guys.. peace
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Post by kurplunk on May 24, 2019 4:13:20 GMT -6
I'm more upset that the DLC isn't going to be on the disc for backers but a separate download code
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Post by saberwolf94 on May 24, 2019 4:35:20 GMT -6
saberwolf94 Nothing is gained by keeping the exclusivity... there I said it..... I know your point of view was that a promise has been broken but my point of view is that a promise that doesn't serve the greater good of making the best product possible isn't worth keeping. People within the backer community (myself included) did not want the content to remain exclusive and yes I can say it's invalid to say backers don't lose anything because it's true, the word "exclusive" is removed from the equation nothing more, you get all the content you were promised show me that this isn't true and I'll withdraw that point but you can't, you can tell me that your not happy about the decision and you regret backing at $60 when you could've gotten it cheaper but no matter how you feel about it your still going to be able to play everything you expected to be able to play when you get the game. The people that say "But I PAID $32 extra dollars for my exclusivity!" It's an investment not buying a finished product you should have known the risk and not gambled with more money then you felt comfortable losing. You still help make the game possible, you still got access to demo's and insider knowledge of the project, and the opportunity to help to shape the direction of the project. My point about the Wii U comparison was that there is a point where keeping a promise in detrimental to the greater whole. I am genuinely regretful that you feel like you got cheated but I'm glad things turned out the way they did. I for one think it's fine that you are complaining that you don't like whats being done, I don't think that that in itself is "petty or silly", however there are a great many of people that think like you do that are being childish and detrimental to the project now because they didn't get exactly what they wanted, (Neither have I in the past but I never told anyone to not buy the game or threatened to harm the projects success because of it) EDIT: I'm glad to hear your not one of those people but "I'M NOT going to apologize either for providing a counter voice when I believe that the best result happened. So in closing as I've said before we made an investment with good faith promises made, and for the most part those promises have been kept and that proves the "good faith bit" on 505's part, of all the things to be disappointed about with this campaign the loss of $32 4 years ago and the word exclusive on your tier, seems to me (I'm not asking you to agree) a minor loss in the grand scheme. The "greater good" is a completely subjective matter as not having access to a bit of content wouldn't be the end of the world for any non backer buying this now unless they have strong feelings of entitlement which is common these days. It is clear that the mentality of the backers that say this goes along the lines of "if this is is a sacrifice that will boost the sales, reach a wide audience and help make the game a hit I'm willing to accept the promise being broken since I don't lose anything anyway". Let me tell you something I want this to be a hit as much as the next guy but I'm not gonna go to bat for someone when they betray my trust, I suppose I respect myself more than you and others, it's a matter of having some pride and dignity. I know this sounds harsh but what you're saying is essentially "they walked all over me a bit but I'll let this slide".
When it comes to this being a gamble you're right, when you trust someone that's entirely your decision and it's perfectly possible that you could be betrayed. However, passing that test means it's likely to trust that person again in the future. Failing that means the exact opposite. You're right it was a gamble and since they decided to switch things up I won't back any future project since I can just get whatever I want at the end, no need for the to hold my money for so long.
About your last point, I don't feel I lost $32 I don't know who came up with this random number the base game is now $40 $50 with the dlc so at best we lose $10 at least that's how I worked up the math. However, I'm not being childish, in fact it's the opposite, I'm man enough not to take any unjust compromises regardless of how awesome I think the game is going to be, I'm a die hard fan of IGA but not a fanboy to defend anything especially actions assaulting my dignity.
At the end of the day they made their decision and I know where my stance is if they ever make another kickstarter. To be honest my real worry is about the multiple shipments, I live in Cyprus so this makes things complicated with extra fees I'll probably have to pay, this is what will really made me angry. You could say that's YET another promise that's been broken, Angel Corlux clearly stated this wouldn't happen on the duel screen podcast.
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Post by saberwolf94 on May 24, 2019 4:50:10 GMT -6
When importing these two shipments, the tax import post office will ask me for a receipt and I will have to show the same receipt twice. OK, this is something I also would like to know. Since Kickstarter was a donation, it shouldn't legaly wise count as an ordinary purchase.. the items sent, aren't bought, they are more of a gift of gratitude.. (my english is a bit laggy here, I hope you get my point) Do we have to pay tax for them? ... This was my first KS Project with physical items, so I am a virgin on this. BTT About the negativity here.. oh man, up until that update, which in my eyes sounds sincere, everything up until now went smooth. So what has changed? ... Some small content, which was funded by us, can be purchased by anyone, who proly won't give a poop about, cause they won't even understand the meaning behind it.. wow, that's really hard.. I mean this won't make earth stop turning around, but hey.. this is like a world war 5 or something similar.. Why can't we just be happy? The most exciting KS-project is about to launch, why the hell do we need to get upset about something so trivial? I can only pity you guys.. peace It's not a s simple as this and honestly the backer content going non exclusive is whatever at this point. Living in Cyprus I'm worried about them splitting this to multiple shipments, at least 3 from what I gathered so far, the base game, the collectables and then the amano poster. I paid $65 shipping to fangamer I better not have to pay fees more than once.
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