roguedragon05
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Post by roguedragon05 on May 23, 2019 12:50:15 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2019 12:56:50 GMT -6
I thought that after Update 79 it would be smooth sailing from there onwards, but boy was I wrong. Strap those seat belts boys and girls, we got ourselves another round of controversy (or nontroversy like holic said) before the launch of the game. But seriously though, I find it ridiculous that some people on the KS page are promoting piracy just because of the backer exclusive content being made available to everyone. I mean, for people who backed the $60 tier for a digital copy it must definitely feel like being stabbed in the back, but that's no reason to tell people to pirate a game. I'm 30 years old, I've been gaming since I was child and I've seen so many actual dick moves and anti-consumer practices being done by publishers that this doesn't even register as one to me, so it's actually mind boggling to see that some users in the KS page think that pirating this game is justifiable.
Like I said before, I'm remaining cautiously optimistic about this game and I'd rather wait for reviews before buying it, but now I feel like pre-ordering just out of spite for those people who are promoting piracy.
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Post by Yuri Zahard on May 23, 2019 13:01:28 GMT -6
Overlord : Maybe you missed the survey but we (backers) agreed on selling the exclusive staff as DLC by a landslide! "We" didn't agree to anything. This isn't a hivemind, nor was the survey even limited to backers. And again, landslide or not, this does not change the fact that it's false advertising, which is the issue here. You make a good point if the survey was not just sent to backers.
That's what i thought it was but I'm not sure to be honest.
Still, selling DLC to other people does not diminish the value of what you get. I would understand if you were a disappointed Linux user. But this just looks like nagging for the sake of negativity... I hope you can still enjoy the game one day.
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Post by Saint Germain on May 23, 2019 13:03:28 GMT -6
Bummer about having to pay extra for the steel case but I am a cheapscape lol it's not to bad a price.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 23, 2019 13:05:18 GMT -6
Yeah keeping the content locked to backers would have encouraged more piracy than the other way around
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Post by Sindra on May 23, 2019 14:10:13 GMT -6
Yeah keeping the content locked to backers would have encouraged more piracy than the other way around
If they were concerned about piracy then they shouldn't have advertised something as "backer-exclusive", and then later open it to a "vote". What if the "vote" had been overwhelmingly in the other direction and the majority didn't want the backer-exclusive content to be made public? Would piracy still be a concern or would they just go with what the backers wanted regardless? And *was* said vote open to more than exclusively backers? (I honestly can't recall.)
Again, this is a small (and self-admittedly petty) matter in the grand scheme, but one that is an tiny annoyance when up until now there's been a lot of transparency.
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SamXala
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Post by SamXala on May 23, 2019 14:15:49 GMT -6
Personally I as a +$150 backer I don't like that the steelbook is something that we're not going to get for free for our support, and limited? Come on!
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 23, 2019 14:23:34 GMT -6
Yeah keeping the content locked to backers would have encouraged more piracy than the other way around
If they were concerned about piracy then they shouldn't have advertised something as "backer-exclusive", and then later open it to a "vote". What if the "vote" had been overwhelmingly in the other direction and the majority didn't want the backer-exclusive content to be made public? Would piracy still be a concern or would they just go with what the backers wanted regardless? And *was* said vote open to more than exclusively backers? (I honestly can't recall.)
Again, this is a small (and self-admittedly petty) matter in the grand scheme, but one that is an tiny annoyance when up until now there's been a lot of transparency. Yeah. As I said in my other thread about value, it was a bad idea from the start. Probably poorly-advised from their partners at the time, but I wouldn't be able to prove that and it's not worth digging up now.
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Post by Overlord on May 23, 2019 14:25:20 GMT -6
"We" didn't agree to anything. This isn't a hivemind, nor was the survey even limited to backers. And again, landslide or not, this does not change the fact that it's false advertising, which is the issue here. You make a good point if the survey was not just sent to backers.
That's what i thought it was but I'm not sure to be honest.
Still, selling DLC to other people does not diminish the value of what you get. I would understand if you were a disappointed Linux user. But this just looks like nagging for the sake of negativity... I hope you can still enjoy the game one day. All you needed was ANY gmail account in order to take the survey. A friend of mine took the survey and was never even going to buy the game, let alone back it. But at this point I cannot believe how many times I need to explain what the issue is. It's bad enough we have people like "Pure Miriam" throwing insults at anyone that isn't cheering for this false advertising, but to keep pretending it's a different issue is just as dishonest as the issue itself. I have to believe that people like you actually do understand the simple concept of false advertising, but since there's nothing you can really say about it, you pretend it's a different issue entirely. I hope that people can deal with that, instead of presenting strawman arguments just for the sake of defending.
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Post by akuwa on May 23, 2019 14:43:57 GMT -6
a bit disappointed not everything will be coming out at launch as I like to rush through all the content for games like this a bunch before not touching them again until years later but when I look back at how the beta looked and see all the improvements sense then I gotta wonder how many of those improvements would not have been possible had they concentrated on stretch goals instead or would it have been wise to push the game back another year for all that to happen, doing what they did may have been the right choice.
would also just like to say that I like how the backer exclusive content was handled but the announcement about it was foolishly handled, I say it was foolish because it mentions piracy as the reason and same with no-matter what choice they made concerning the matter there are people unhappy about it and when people are unhappy about things like that its not uncommon to look at the reason given for that decision (in this case piracy) and then use that for the reason to pirate out of spite as a way of proving 505 wrong. you never solve problems like piracy by concentrating on them directly, problems like that get solved through indirect and subtle ways that keep the practice out of the minds of those at risk of it
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Post by Aztec on May 23, 2019 15:11:44 GMT -6
I’m totally going to quote this from a guy at ResetEra who basically wrote this better than I could’ve hoped for and I agree with 200%:
I backed this project at 100 dollars and it was to give Iga a chance to make a game where he was calling all the shots and wasn't restricted by Konami. Getting the game and goodies was just a small part of it. I voted to have the backer exclusive stuff as purchasable DLC. I don't care if Joe Schmoe can go to BB and get the retail game for 40 bucks (less than half of what I paid). His money didn't get the project off the ground and start a new series. His name won't be in the credits.
The only thing that I dislike about today is the metal case not being available to the majority of backers but it sounds like they are trying to do what they can with that.
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Post by Aztec on May 23, 2019 15:13:33 GMT -6
Hey all, for anyone who was wondering, the launch/base game also has the retro level Just not mentioned in marketing etc because there's so much damn stuff What about the backer slip cover and the Ayami Kojima box art for the $60+ and $100+ tiers respectively? Are those shipping with the game right from the bat? We still getting a new update next Thursday?
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Post by Aztec on May 23, 2019 15:16:16 GMT -6
It’s is my recommendation to the mods and administrators of this site, the official Bloodstained forums by the way, that anyone here that’s openly advocating piracy should be banned on the spot.
I don’t care how pissed you are but you don’t get to come here and threaten to commit a felony, admit to wanting to steal this game and do it on it’s official forums. That’d be like coming to my house as a guest first and then threaten to come back later, force yourself in, and steal all my furtniture, tv, jewelry, appliances, and shit. You don’t get to do that!
Of course this isn’t my decision but if it were up to me that’d be a bannable offense.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 23, 2019 15:46:25 GMT -6
I haven't had opportunity to read through all of the thread(s) about this, but please if you see posts like this use the "report post" function to bring it to our attention and we'll decide action as necessary.
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Post by Aztec on May 23, 2019 15:53:05 GMT -6
I haven't had opportunity to read through all of the thread(s) about this, but please if you see posts like this use the "report post" function to bring it to our attention and we'll decide action as necessary. I haven’t seen open admission of piracy here (yet) but there is a ton of that in the bloody KS comments. I was just suggesting that in prevention in case any of that crap would bleed over to this site and shouldn’t be tolerated, IMO.
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hyugakojiro
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Post by hyugakojiro on May 23, 2019 16:05:23 GMT -6
Not my favorite update for sure but here's my 2 cents: Exclusive backer content becoming paid DLC. I think it was pretty obvious to most backers that this would happen after seeing how the original poll was managed. If two wolves and a sheep vote over what will be served for dinner the result shouldn't come to anyone as a surprise. Having said that my personal stance on the issue was to put said content on disc that way there was at least some win-win for everyone involved. Backers would still have access to the content even after Sony / MS or Nintendo closed their respective online stores for today's platforms and all fans that purchased the game would be able to enjoy said content. So the current decision to me is a lose-lose lol. Which brings me to my next point: Stretch goals as DLC. My preference would have been to release the game with all or most single player content on disc and releasing content requiring online access as DLC. Obviously this didn't happen but I don't think that comes as a surprise to most of us considering the game's release date. Many of us likely assumed the game wouldn't arrive until fall or winter yet we're getting it next month already. I chose GoG for my digital version of the game for this reason despite not having a gaming quality PC but once all content has been released I'll download it and burn it to M-Disc so at the very least I'll still have access via PC when the content becomes unavailable on consoles. PositivesThe new website looks good and I enjoyed the reveal of Dominique's and Zangetsu's final look. I'm assuming that was Mana's touch that made the two look as good as they do today. Job well done! I'm surprised purify hasn't updated his avatar yet. Also might be a good idea to highlight the game's fan art gallery on the new website to showcase some of the amazing art that fans have created for this series.
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Post by kurplunk on May 23, 2019 16:40:22 GMT -6
Does anyone know how the backer DLC is going to work? Will backers have to download it, I assumed that as a backer the DLC would be included on the disc at launch. Personally I think this would add value to game especially later on when these consoles go out of cycle and the shops to purchase DLC close down. Nvm I got my answer now I do feel the the backers got screwed I really hope if there is time to reconsider it and put it on the game
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Post by saberwolf94 on May 23, 2019 17:15:02 GMT -6
Non backers aren't at fault for having the chance to get access backer exclusive content and doing so. The matter is with the publisher itself, it's all about if them sticking by their claim or not. I'm also skeptical the poll majority is that "most backers didn't seem to mind". I can't fault them too much though as at the end of the day they want this to be a hit like any publisher would, sacrificing their promise to us to appeal to everyone else in the world; it's clear what the best option is when you weigh the pros and cons of both. It is more pragmatic for them to avoid alienating everyone else that's a potential buyer than keeping a promise.
505 essentially had to choose between alienating the backers or everyone else in the world that's a potential buyer. They took the former as it makes to most sense for the game to be hit. My or anyone else's feelings don't mean a thing when it comes to somebody keeping their word, the resolve to keep a tough promise. That's the whole point at the end of the day. It would take a lot of courage and resolve for them to keep a promise that's strategically bad for the end profit of the game and I can't blame them even if it annoys me. However, that's what it comes down to, they decided to appeal to the demographic that matters more now than keeping their word.
For those that didn't back the game do capitalize on your ability to get everything but do not try to justify the company's decision as "right" or "good business model" because it works out for you to get everything even though you weren't a backer. I could sit here as well and say it's a bad business model for them to go back on their word for the backers (remember we're customers as well) which is true as now I won't back a future kickstarter if they make one. Why should I? If I can get everything later anyway there is no reason for me to let them hold my money for so long. Regardless of their reason (which makes sense business wise, I sympathize and understand what the trade off is) they went back on their word for the exclusive content. It's an undeniable fact which is why in our backer emails they give us all the explanations as why they did it and how "we know not all the backers will be happy with this".
Someone also mentioned this and it's a great point regarding shipping and import taxes. I live in Cyprus so will they cover the custom fees and taxes for multiple shipments? I would have rather they took longer if they weren't ready and ship everything in one big collector's box like they promised, we've waited for a long time anyway another month or two wouldn't make much difference at this point.
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Post by saberwolf94 on May 23, 2019 17:57:33 GMT -6
I'm not surprised at the extra modes being dlc, though I *am* surprised neither of the bonus characters are done. So I *think* we are getting: The base game with Miriam, complete with anything related to the castle like the "retro level", "Orchestrated music" and "IGA's Biggest Castle" obviously. Boss Rush and Speed Run are good day one updates since we did expect Boss Rush at launch for sure. All the other modes coming later was expected. As for the "IGA's Back pack" I voted to keep that stuff just for us, but Ive gotten into to many vicious fights that always ended with me feeling like an ***hole for not considering the myriad ways people might not have been able to get that content even though they may have wanted to back at the time. As for the price, $40 for the base game and $10 for the pack matches fine for backers since we are getting exclusive slipcases with Kojima's art. I feel like that covers the extra $10 but others might feel differently. And COTM was supposed to be free fr us so Im not counting that in the extra $10 because, well, then that would mean we paid for it, not gotten it free. EDIT: Also I backed for FAR more than $60, so I probably feel differently because Im also getting the soundtrack, the art book, shirt, poster, signatures etc. I've already got a punch of physical exclusive stuff. Disclosure etc. No you're not an ****ole for expecting another party to keep their word. The reality is people are just entitled to things like we can't/shouldn't be missing out on things in life. That was the deal to entice people for backing initially. People miss out on a lot of things for not being around at the right time, not knowing etc. This is a part of life in general. It's simple pragmatics, it makes sense for 505 to avoid alienating every other person that's a potential buyer than uphold a promise if they feel they can push that boundary and the pros outweigh the consequences. The game needs to be a hit after all. If this was some sort of legal contract I doubt they'd break it like this. Overall, I can't fault for being pragmatic but it annoys when we're painted as villains for having the decency to expect a party to keep their word.
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Post by Sindra on May 23, 2019 18:17:08 GMT -6
If this is a matter of the publisher binding them contractually, then fine. Just be upfront about it, and don't hide behind some excuse that "piracy" is the issue you're trying to combat. At least that way we don't feel like we're being fed a line of bullshit.
This likely sounds harsher than I mean it to, but I am equally annoyed that we're being told we're getting something for "free" when we aren't. We already paid for it.
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