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Post by duomaxwell007 on Jun 14, 2018 21:36:20 GMT -6
Well, there will be some E3 streams today. IGA will be answering many questions and the most common question is indeed release date. I seriously doubt we will get a release date today, and not having a release date announced at E3 is a pretty obvious sign it won't be releasing this year. However, if it does get delayed to next year I don't think it will be past the first quarter. Honestly I hope it is indeed next year. I want to play the demo, and give my feedback with a chance that changes will be made. If they are releasing this year, what we get in the demo will most certainly be what we get on release. There's no time to gather a lot of feedback and make adjustments if they are going to be pushing release to this many platforms. So, not only do I expect a delay I hope for one. However, I believe I'm more patient and have more personally invested in this game than a lot of other people. I only say that because I know a huge chunk of backers are at the digital only lowest cost tier. It's not that those backers aren't as emotionally invested in playing, I just think they probably don't spend time every single day of their lives thinking and talking about Bloodstained like I do. I'd rather the team have time for adjustments I'd like to see than to play the game this year, but I totally understand the perspective of a huge chunk of fans who are already past their patience limit that just wanted to play already and be on to their next game. E3 over hypes game announcements and that hype can screw up expectations for game that are barely in a state to talk about to the public. Kickstarter is even worse, as Bloodstained was a loose idea with few stretch goals when the campaign just started. We've switched developers, publishers, probably localization, a platform, and we have to port to Vita that sounded like a miricle in the first place to even make happen. We added many stretch goals and have heard that a staggered release is not what the team is among for. We haven't heard anything lately about release other than "we have no release date announced at this time". All signs point to next year. This is assuming that during the Q&A today the question isn't answered though. Stay tuned! " If they are releasing this year, what we get in the demo will most certainly be what we get on release. There's no time to gather a lot of feedback and make adjustments if they are going to be pushing release to this many platforms."
Its not supposed to give you time to offer feedback and possibly change.. its a DEMO bit BETA the point of a DEMO is just to try the game and decide if you wanna buy it (or in this case get a taste of what you backed before you finally get the full course). If youre hoping for feedback and change you want a BETA not a DEMO
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jun 14, 2018 22:29:05 GMT -6
duomaxwell007 The thing is, you don't know what Iga hopes to get out of giving us the demo, and the reason it's called a demo has nothing to do with us(since as you pointed out, they don't need to convince us to buy it) and everything to do with them demoing it at E3. The standing fact that we can go on is that at the time that the Kickstarter ran, the word used to describe what Iga wanted at the time was "beta." And indeed, regardless of what it's called now, that's an accurate description for the unfinished state of what we'll be getting. Maybe Iga wants feedback now, and maybe he doesn't. I would be surprised if he didn't, and I'd be even more surprised if he didn't take heed if feedback overwhelmingly pointed out something that needed to be fixed or changed in some way. I don't expect anything like that to happen outside of actual bugs, but I don't think Iga would flat out ignore feedback that he got.
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Post by akahige on Jun 14, 2018 22:48:41 GMT -6
every delay is a nail in the coffin for the vita port though. Certainly for a physical vita card.
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Post by Busterific on Jun 14, 2018 22:57:51 GMT -6
every delay is a nail in the coffin for the vita port though. Certainly for a physical vita card. I'm not entirely convinced of this. At this point the backer survey is closed, so they already know how many vita cards they're going to need. If they're not already in the process of getting what's needed for this they should be at least getting it coordinated so they'll have them when needed. |
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Post by duomaxwell007 on Jun 14, 2018 23:26:54 GMT -6
duomaxwell007 The thing is, you don't know what Iga hopes to get out of giving us the demo, and the reason it's called a demo has nothing to do with us(since as you pointed out, they don't need to convince us to buy it) and everything to do with them demoing it at E3. The standing fact that we can go on is that at the time that the Kickstarter ran, the word used to describe what Iga wanted at the time was "beta." And indeed, regardless of what it's called now, that's an accurate description for the unfinished state of what we'll be getting. Maybe Iga wants feedback now, and maybe he doesn't. I would be surprised if he didn't, and I'd be even more surprised if he didn't take heed if feedback overwhelmingly pointed out something that needed to be fixed or changed in some way. I don't expect anything like that to happen outside of actual bugs, but I don't think Iga would flat out ignore feedback that he got. Yup cause overwheming feedback has a huge impact... I mean ts so great that thanks to all the complaints about the 2.5d look the game got had it changed back to that badass 2D sprite animation seen in the concept art for the kickstarter.. oh wait.. nvm the game is still 2.5D |
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Post by caer on Jun 15, 2018 0:46:40 GMT -6
Since I didn't see anyone mentioning it yet, in the IGN stream they directly asked about the release date and got the answer:
We are not ready to say yet, but it will be announced soon(tm)
When asked if it will release this year, IGA answered:
The announcement of the date will be this year, but the actual release date is a secret.
So yeah, it definitely sounds like "don't expect it this year, but considering they plan to announce a date relatively soon, probably sometime in the beginning of next year. Just my interpretation
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Post by freddythemonkey on Jun 15, 2018 0:58:22 GMT -6
duomaxwell007 The thing is, you don't know what Iga hopes to get out of giving us the demo, and the reason it's called a demo has nothing to do with us(since as you pointed out, they don't need to convince us to buy it) and everything to do with them demoing it at E3. The standing fact that we can go on is that at the time that the Kickstarter ran, the word used to describe what Iga wanted at the time was "beta." And indeed, regardless of what it's called now, that's an accurate description for the unfinished state of what we'll be getting. Maybe Iga wants feedback now, and maybe he doesn't. I would be surprised if he didn't, and I'd be even more surprised if he didn't take heed if feedback overwhelmingly pointed out something that needed to be fixed or changed in some way. I don't expect anything like that to happen outside of actual bugs, but I don't think Iga would flat out ignore feedback that he got. Yup cause overwheming feedback has a huge impact... I mean ts so great that thanks to all the complaints about the 2.5d look the game got had it changed back to that badass 2D sprite animation seen in the concept art for the kickstarter.. oh wait.. nvm the game is still 2.5D So a feedback like "The dialogue animations are off, they should be fixed" or "X animation is iffy, it should be fixed" is the same as "Completely change the very core of how the game looks, a core that's been establishedfrom the first day of the campaign and was never even remotely subject to change", good to know. I guess I should be disappointed if I submit a feedback like "I don't like the combat, make it a Real Time Strategy game" and they don't listen to it. P.S.: the concept art was not "sprite animation". It was a drawing. |
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jun 15, 2018 1:19:31 GMT -6
duomaxwell007 Hyperbole, huh... You aren't going to generate much in the way of useful discussion that way, and it's a good way to have your posts dismissed out of hand.
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Post by duomaxwell007 on Jun 15, 2018 1:31:54 GMT -6
Yup cause overwheming feedback has a huge impact... I mean ts so great that thanks to all the complaints about the 2.5d look the game got had it changed back to that badass 2D sprite animation seen in the concept art for the kickstarter.. oh wait.. nvm the game is still 2.5D So a feedback like "The dialogue animations are off, they should be fixed" or "X animation is iffy, it should be fixed" is the same as "Completely change the very core of how the game looks, a core that's been establishedfrom the first day of the campaign and was never even remotely subject to change", good to know. I guess I should be disappointed if I submit a feedback like "I don't like the combat, make it a Real Time Strategy game" and they don't listen to it. P.S.: the concept art was not "sprite animation". It was a drawing.
If the game showed off real time strategy at the t=start of the campaign then kille it off entirely afterward then yes Id say thats what it should be. If it was never sown to be/have such then obviously ppl saying make it RTS would be stupid.. they backed a sidescrolling metroidvania game then later one decides it should be an RTS? Umm no.. if you wanted an RTS you woulda backed one or not backed this to begin with Id say.
In this game however the main KS campaign shows some damn good looking arts. I can say with absolute certainty that 95% of the ppl who backed this game thought that THAT was what they were backing.. only to get the 2.5D curveball thrown at em 5 updates after the campaign ended
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Post by freddythemonkey on Jun 15, 2018 1:36:55 GMT -6
Then 95% of the people who backed this game either can't read or has no brain. I doubt it, though, because it was pretty clear in the campaign from day one that the game would have been 2.5D. Also, if someone can't read "ALL IMAGES ARE CONCEPT ART, NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE FINAL PRODUCT" or the section where it clearly explained the 2.5D nature it's their damn problem.
I can't understand if you seriously believe what you wrote or you just want to flame. I'll stop responding to you either way.
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Post by ghaleon on Jun 15, 2018 1:57:35 GMT -6
I mean no one announces a release date 3-5 months before launch (except maybe Bethesda)
There's this wonderful localization company called Xseed which I adore for their work on Ys and Trails in the/of the series who ever since SC, announce release date often less than a single month before release. Trails of cold steel 2 I seem to recall was like 'surprise, it's out next week!' |
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Post by ghaleon on Jun 15, 2018 2:01:12 GMT -6
A little off topic... but were still seeing comments about the game needing a combo system. It makes me so angry when I see them. I wouldn't say it needs a combo system, but I wouldn't be opposed to it either. That said I think when people say that they are in favor of a fairly meaningless combo system, which I define as one where you generally only need to reuse one or two combos over and over again. Though not many people like it that I know of, there is an mmo named Elsword which actually has a very deep combo system, one where you frequently make use of nearly all of your characters moves, and it can vary depending on the situation to a great extent. It was a very solid game in that respect. It's a shame nobody made a single player version of a game quite like that IMO I would LOVE to play it. (the character design of that game is great too imo). I'm not one of the people who says this game needs it though. At the same time however I don't think it would ruin it either like I imagine you probably are thinking. Didn't order of ecclesia kinda feel like it had one though? I forgot, haven't played it for so long. |
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Post by ghaleon on Jun 15, 2018 2:03:32 GMT -6
It said 2.5D day one. I know, I was a day 1 backer and it said that to begin with, and I frequently mock those 2.5D whiners on these very forums because they feel entitled to complain about something that was a foundation to this whole project day 1. Why don't you complain it's inspired off castlevania and not yo noid while you're at it.
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Post by dareka on Jun 15, 2018 2:06:35 GMT -6
Then 95% of the people who backed this game either can't read or has no brain. I doubt it, though, because it was pretty clear in the campaign from day one that the game would have been 2.5D. Also, if someone can't read "ALL IMAGES ARE CONCEPT ART, NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE FINAL PRODUCT" or the section where it clearly explained the 2.5D nature it's their damn problem. The FAQ section of the Kickstarter page goes into quite a bit of detail... Will the game look exactly like that concept art?Building out the custom shaders that will define this game's visual style will take some time, so we can't show you in-game screenshots just yet. We've put this concept art together just to give you a general idea of the game's feel and layout.
We'll be talking to backers all through the development process, and showing you the progress we're making. Using UE4 allows us a great deal of flexibility, and Inti Creates can't wait to show you just what they can wring out of it. Why 2.5D?Because this is an Igavania game, the gameplay and feel of traditional 2D games is non-negotiable. Even so, IGA decided to go with 2.5D for this project for both financial and artistic reasons. A 2.5D world built on Unreal Engine 4 was the right choice to balance development time, graphical fidelity, budget, and scope.
At the same time, IGA is very excited about exploring the paths a 2.5D style opens up within the classic Igavania formula. As he begins a new chapter of his career as a developer, he's looking forward to trying things that will enhance, rather than detract from, that core gameplay.
However, we would NEVER discount the fans' love for that classic style. The development team is looking forward to working with backers every step of the way to decide on custom shaders that will give the game a distinctive, hand-crafted look, so there are no surprises. Games like Guilty Gear and Strider are proof that 2.5D can be handled in a way that honors a classic aesthetic while allowing for new possibilities; that’s what IGA hopes to achieve with this project.
That said, one section of the castle will feature an area that Miriam can traverse in beautiful retro graphics. We are dubbing this section “the 8-bit level” although it may be close to 16 bit or 32 bit depending on how we mix it with the full game. While a full-blown 8-bit game doesn't fit into the full budget, backer support allows us to have fun with the development and create a little retro magic in our game.
Because this is an Igavania game, the gameplay and feel of traditional 2D games is non-negotiable. Even so, IGA decided to go with 2.5D for this project for both financial and artistic reasons. A 2.5D world built on Unreal Engine 4 was the right choice to balance development time, graphical fidelity, budget, and scope.
At the same time, IGA is very excited about exploring the paths a 2.5D style opens up within the classic Igavania formula. As he begins a new chapter of his career as a developer, he's looking forward to trying things that will enhance, rather than detract from, that core gameplay.
However, we would NEVER discount the fans' love for that classic style. The development team is looking forward to working with backers every step of the way to decide on custom shaders that will give the game a distinctive, hand-crafted look, so there are no surprises. Games like Guilty Gear and Strider are proof that 2.5D can be handled in a way that honors a classic aesthetic while allowing for new possibilities; that’s what IGA hopes to achieve with this project.
That said, one section of the castle will feature an area that Miriam can traverse in beautiful retro graphics. We are dubbing this section “the 8-bit level” although it may be close to 16 bit or 32 bit depending on how we mix it with the full game. While a full-blown 8-bit game doesn't fit into the full budget, backer support allows us to have fun with the development and create a little retro magic in our game. ... unfortunately, people don't always read the fine print... or the FAQs... or the interviews... or the disclaimers... or ... nevermind. |
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Post by freddythemonkey on Jun 15, 2018 2:20:07 GMT -6
ghaleon : "I'm not one of the people who says this game needs it though. At the same time however I don't think it would ruin it either like I imagine you probably are thinking." Personally I don't think it would ruin the game, but it would certainly make for a very different one. A combo system completely changes how a game plays, so if Bloodstained had a combo system like, for example, Dead Cells, it would have to be faster, with beefier monsters and probably more combat heavy in general. So, overall, it would be a completely difference experience from what IGA wanted to make/design. I would have been on board either way if he wanted to make this experiment, but in this instance what I (and probably others) expected from him was a game in his peculiar classic style. That's why I see the lack of a combo system as a complaint pretty puzzling, because expecting it essentially means you were expecting a different kind of game.
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Post by ghaleon on Jun 15, 2018 2:20:53 GMT -6
That wasn't even fine print or a FAQ though. I mean you might say it's a FAQ since it was a question answer, but that was day 1, there were no questions to be asked yet. That was preemptively written. It was in fact a listed feature.
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Post by dareka on Jun 15, 2018 2:38:17 GMT -6
ummm "incomplete at this stage of development" Its just if the game was comin out this year it would be like 80% complete, definitely close enough to complete to not be using a phrase like "incomplete at THIS stage of development" makes it sound like the development just started or hasnt been going long at all
This is kind of off-topic, but I think the information should be out there: the % of completion has never been an actual thing in game development. It's a number company PR gives people either to make them feel the game is closer to being released, or to give themselves leeway in case they miss their internal release date. It's also a number developers might give their bosses to calm them down when the project's delayed. You might think that surely there has to be such a thing. Game development is a task, right? So if you're halfway through a task, you're 50% complete, right? Here's the thing: game development involves lots and lots of different tasks, and some of the most crucial of them - play balancing, engine optimization, asset polishing, debugging - you have no idea how long they will take until they're actually finished. If you won't know how long it takes to finish something until it's finished, you obviously can't make an estimate to how far along it is. Logic 101. It's that simple. No game company manages their project by going "we're 69% complete at this point, and we'll be 71% complete by next Monday." That's not how project management works. They'll say "we have these features pending, these features implemented, these tasks left to go, which we need to finish by this date or these other tasks will have to be delayed." And if you have an important feature left to be implemented, and, say, only one person can do it, even if it ends up being like 1% of the total man-hours for the project, it could end up delaying it by months. So maybe 99% of the game take only 60% of the time, and the other 40% is taken up by 1% of the time, but delays the game because it's a bottleneck. Which is the % of completion when that task starts? 99%? 60%? Maybe make it into an 80% to match with people's expectations based on the actual release date? Because at the end of the day, it's this last option that's normally adopted. And that's the sad truth behind the % of completion. EDIT: And here's IGA backing this up...FAMITSU: Well, I played the demo, and the game felt nearly finished. IGA: The opening portion [is what's nearly finished] - not the rest of the game. Almost all of the assets are ready, but there's still quite a bit left to do, so it's not yet finished by any means.
FAMITSU: How far along is it? IGA: Well, at the end of the development cycle, is as precise as we can get. It's hell, I tell ya (*smiles*). I can practically hear [the dev team's] screams as we speak... |
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 15, 2018 7:20:01 GMT -6
duomaxwell007 unless I have misunderstood Angel-Corlux the "demo" this month is the beta mentioned in the Kickstarter. Angel-Corlux, I think "demo" is confusing people. I know "game slice" is another term being used, but it's important to backers to understand that this demo is the beta process.
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Post by ZeroSbr on Jun 15, 2018 7:20:07 GMT -6
ghaleon : "I'm not one of the people who says this game needs it though. At the same time however I don't think it would ruin it either like I imagine you probably are thinking." Personally I don't think it would ruin the game, but it would certainly make for a very different one. A combo system completely changes how a game plays, so if Bloodstained had a combo system like, for example, Dead Cells, it would have to be faster, with beefier monsters and probably more combat heavy in general. So, overall, it would be a completely difference experience from what IGA wanted to make/design. I would have been on board either way if he wanted to make this experiment, but in this instance what I (and probably others) expected from him was a game in his peculiar classic style. That's why I see the lack of a combo system as a complaint pretty puzzling, because expecting it essentially means you were expecting a different kind of game. A combo system (or anything else that deepens the combat) would in fact make the combat better. However, these types of games aren't known for their combat. That's not why people play them. IGA should play to his strengths, and thankfully he is. He's making a large castle with tons of items, rooms, and secrets to find and explore. That's what we asked for, not some combo system just so the game can be like every other action game out there these days. |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 15, 2018 8:07:27 GMT -6
duomaxwell007 unless I have misunderstood Angel-Corlux the "demo" this month is the beta mentioned in the Kickstarter. Angel-Corlux, I think "demo" is confusing people. I know "game slice" is another term being used, but it's important to backers to understand that this demo is the beta process. Well, the official designation is Beta Backer Demo. I think that as succinctly as possible describes what it is and all 3 words are important. Angel-Corlux can correct me if I'm wrong on these interpretations. Beta: it's the beta, and that's the first word in it, so that's good to go Backer: it's just for backers Demo: the part that informs you that it isn't the type of PC game beta where you have early access to the majority of the game (typically more applicable for something that's multiplayer) External/informal use of the words separately can be confusing though, so we have to be careful. If Duo expected a FULL beta for feedback like I mentioned, that's just not something I and the majority would want anyway - this is the type of game that's best experienced in its entirety once its completed and all the little touches are in place. After you've done it once, the impressions of your first experience are set and that's the game for you. I would just avoid playing it entirely if it was a full thing because of that and it'd probably be much later down the line/too late to implement much improvement. We're not talking about Overwatch or a fighting game etc with this. |
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