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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 0:36:52 GMT -6
That's the issue, really. It doesn't demonstrate how the game will run, nor play.
It just attempts to show how the game will feel like and in the process doesn't do much beyond what the presented concept art already did.
25 days in and they are still stuck at selling you the general feeling of the game, while people still have no idea how the game is supposed to play.
Ok, it's a TPS, what kind of TPS? Is it like Vanquish? Gears of War? Transformers? Lost Planet?
Does it have an aim mode that initiates strafing and regular mode that handles more like a 3D platformer?
Will there be dashing, double jumping or weapon type variety (homing, mines, melee, shields, comical ones)?
How about platforming? Will it be heavy on it, or will it be an afterthought?
Sure, we know it's a MML spiritual successor, but the gameplay mock-up image shows several distinct features that aren't present in MML.
The camera angle is different, there appears to be an ammo and reloading system akin to the traditional shooter and it seems aim heavy.
They're pitching a game without explaining the gameplay and that makes people feel as if they're treating them like complete idiots.
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Post by zredgemz on Jul 29, 2015 0:47:37 GMT -6
i wonder if forbes is going to write some nasty stuff for this update since they did have it in for bloodstained and shenmue3.
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 29, 2015 0:55:22 GMT -6
That's the issue, really. It doesn't demonstrate how the game will run, nor play. It just attempts to show how the game will feel like and in the process doesn't do much beyond what the presented concept art already did. 25 days in and they are still stuck at selling you the general feeling of the game, while people still have no idea how the game is supposed to play. Ok, it's a TPS, what kind of TPS? Is it like Vanquish? Gears of War? Transformers? Lost Planet? Does it have an aim mode that initiates strafing and regular mode that handles more like a 3D platformer? Will there be dashing, double jumping or weapon type variety (homing, mines, melee, shields, comical ones)? How about platforming? Will it be heavy on it, or will it be an afterthought? Sure, we know it's a MML spiritual successor, but the gameplay mock-up image shows several distinct features that aren't present in MML. The camera angle is different, there appears to be an ammo and reloading system akin to the traditional shooter and it seems aim heavy. They're pitching a game without explaining the gameplay and that makes people feel as if they're treating them like complete idiots. Many of the things you mentioned, Bloodstained didn't show in their campaign. We just know that Bloodstained is the spiritual successor to Iga's previous Castlevania works, and that Iga is working on it. We barely got any gameplay footage besides the Development Update video, the rest being concept art and interviews. And yet, Bloodstained gained unreal success, why is that? Why did no one complain about that one gameplay video? (Don't mention The Finalbosman's "Screw You Factor" please, lol) |
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Post by zredgemz on Jul 29, 2015 1:00:31 GMT -6
Many of the things you mentioned, Bloodstained didn't show in their campaign. We just know that Bloodstained is the spiritual successor to Iga's previous Castlevania works, and that Iga is working on it. We barely got any gameplay footage besides the Development Update video, the rest being concept art and interviews. And yet, Bloodstained gained unreal success, why is that? Why did no one complain about that one gameplay video? (Don't mention The Finalbosman's "Screw You Factor" please, lol) A well run campaign and super die hard fans along with being upfront in the begining made sure it was a success. Oh i forgot about being interactive with backers till the end. Edit: by the way it is hard to compare one kickstarter to another, shenmue fans ran their campaign while bloodstained staff ran theirs. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 1:08:51 GMT -6
Many of the things you mentioned, Bloodstained didn't show in their campaign. We just know that Bloodstained is the spiritual successor to Iga's previous Castlevania works, and that Iga is working on it. We barely got any gameplay footage besides the Development Update video, the rest being concept art and interviews. And yet, Bloodstained gained unreal success, why is that? Why did no one complain about that one gameplay video? (Don't mention The Finalbosman's "Screw You Factor" please, lol) I assumed you'd bring that up. Thing is, we did know how it would play. We were promised Igavania gameplay, they showed mock-ups containing those familiar mechanics and they gave general info about the new additions during the campaign. With RA the problem isn't that there isn't a working gameplay prototype, the problem is that there is only a vague description of the gameplay. |
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Post by thrashinuva on Jul 29, 2015 1:09:42 GMT -6
Bosman did have a point with the screw you factor though, but it doesn't really make sense since this is again a "screw you Capcom" since they canceled MML3 after making the demo to the game.
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 29, 2015 1:14:56 GMT -6
I figured it being a MML game being made by the team who worked on MML would be enough to know what to expect. Vague or not.
And you're right, thrashinuva, Red Ash does have a "Screw You Factor" towards Capcom for canceling MML3.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 1:26:40 GMT -6
The team involved only gives an idea on the general quality, not the gameplay.
There are plenty of games out there that are well made and have solid gameplay, yet plenty of people don't play them because it lacks in appeal to them.
People have genre and gameplay preferences.
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 29, 2015 1:35:47 GMT -6
You say genre, and gameplay preferences, but unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure Red Ash will be of the same genre and similar gameplay as MML. Which is essentially you running around town to talk to NPCs, go outside and fight enemies with your Mega Buster (reloading is irrelevant), fight a boss, advance the story, repeat. In fact, the prototype already shows how the town portion of gameplay will feel like.
If this was some random game with no connections to MML, you'd have a point with it having no appeal.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 1:50:29 GMT -6
Like I noted earlier: Sure, we know it's a MML spiritual successor, but the gameplay mock-up image shows several distinct features that aren't present in MML. The camera angle is different, there appears to be an ammo and reloading system akin to the traditional shooter and it seems aim heavy. MML was lock-on focused, with its manual aiming having minimal practical usage. RA is supposed to be aim heavy, apparently. This alone is a big gameplay difference between the two and if they plan to make it a decent TPS, they will have to include more features that will further distance the gameplay from MML. Yes, the town interaction and alike may stay the same, but those are specific elements not tied to how the combat will be handled. |
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 29, 2015 1:53:57 GMT -6
The campaign mentioned it would be aim heavy? There's no lock-on feature? Cause MML is also a TPS.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 1:59:25 GMT -6
Gameplay mock-up image showed an aim reticule, something which wasn't present in MML and implies a need for precise aiming.
MML isn't a TPS, just like Jak isn't.
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 29, 2015 2:07:27 GMT -6
MML is a TPS. Jak is an action-platformer. MML has tankish controls, quite similar to WASD. Jak has free movement with the analog stick.
MML also has an aim reticle when you lock on to enemies.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 2:12:23 GMT -6
MML is a TPS. Jak is an action-platformer. MML has tankish controls, quite similar to WASD. Jak has free movement with the analog stick. MML also has an aim reticle when you lock on to enemies. Nope, it's not a TPS. Want a better example, how about Ratchet and Clank? A lock on mark is not an aim reticule, as you don't actually aim through it. |
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 29, 2015 2:18:18 GMT -6
Racher & Clank is a mix of both TPS, and Action-platformer. Though it varies as the series progresses, it's now more of a shooter. Also, if you're looking at this pic:  It can be interpreted both ways. Either it's an aiming reticle, or it's a lock-on reticle pointing towards the enemy standing right in front of Tyger. Think Parasite Eve: The 3rd Birthday. |
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Post by JoJo on Jul 29, 2015 2:21:32 GMT -6
I actually kinda hope it will be action TPS
Old controls are just not fit at all
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 2:29:37 GMT -6
Ratchet is an action-platformer, the action part stemming mostly from the TPS elements.
It is more of a TPS than Legends, yet it isn't dubbed as one.
No, it can't be interpreted both ways, as the reticule is not centered on the enemy or a focal point of it. If the darn thing was glued to the "eye", then you'd have a case here.
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 29, 2015 2:41:08 GMT -6
It's just concept art, so the exact position of the reticle can't be used as evidence of whether or not it's really an aiming or lock-on reticle.
And anyways, with a little googling, it'd be fairly easy to find out that MML is indeed a TPS.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 4:10:01 GMT -6
It's just concept art, so the exact position of the reticle can't be used as evidence of whether or not it's really an aiming or lock-on reticle. And anyways, with a little googling, it'd be fairly easy to find out that MML is indeed a TPS. If it's not evident proof of that then the concept art should be dismissed as showing anything other than the game being in third person and having long range weapons. Okay, let's try a "little googling". The first hit for MML on google is wikipedia, which categorizes it as an action-adventure. Same source lists Lost Planet, Vanquish, Transformers (FoC) and Gears of War, the examples I mentioned earlier, as third person shooters. If Wiki isn't credible enough, let's see a few more sources. Metacritic? Adventure. Ign? Action. Gamespot? Role-playing and action. No TPS, so I'm guess your googling involved looking up TPS and loosely interpreting its definition. So, lets summarize: MML isn't a TPS, RA is supposed to be, ergo they will have different gameplay. Said gameplay isn't properly described and defined within the genre and as such is nothing more than a vague idea for the (possible) backer. The KS is an unclear pitch that relies on blind faith of the backer and as such, paired with all the negativity surrounding Comcept, is completely undesirable to anyone who's not an avid fan. |
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Post by masterlibrarian on Jul 29, 2015 8:18:23 GMT -6
So, lets summarize: MML isn't a TPS, RA is supposed to be, ergo they will have different gameplay. Said gameplay isn't properly described and defined within the genre and as such is nothing more than a vague idea for the (possible) backer. Well, here's how the Kickstarter itself defines the game: "RED ASH is a 3D action adventure game with third person shooter elements. One of the main goals behind the project is to inject more modern design elements into the classic action adventure RPG formula." So, an action adventure game with third person shooter and RPG elements... sounds a lot like Mega Man Legends to me! [Note: I have no desire to get drawn into this conflict, just clarifying things. Also, full disclosure: I'm not backing the game, not at this point in time at least. I think the best thing for this project, ironically, would be if the Kickstarter failed or was cancelled, and then they could come back in a few months after MN9 is out. Hopefully by then they'll have a bit more to show of the game than what they have now. I think then they will have no problem securing the necessary funds. But that's just IMHO.] |
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