inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 28, 2016 8:25:44 GMT -6
I have something to contribute. I really feel like Dark Metamorphosis is in the wrong section. It's an easier thing to pull off than some of the harder things to do in the game like soul steal. Soul Steal is a very long command I think that should be the things mentioned in the hard section not Dark Metamorphosis. I know you mentioned something about the inputs being weird on playstation but since then it's been on different systems and I pull it off flawlessly all the time on PSVITA.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 27, 2016 19:07:31 GMT -6
Harmony of Dissonance had some really colorful and creative areas: the Skeleton Caverns and the Aqueduct of Dragons are usually cited as the standouts. HoD is one I've always liked even if the Castle A/Castle B body part hunt keeps me from replaying it as much as otherwise would have. Its the ONLY IGAvania where the main character is a Belmont...even if that Belmont is just Alucard 2.0. I love the whip upgrades like charging it to smash walls or toss fireballs (as a fun nod to Christopher Belmont, nice touch Iga) and combining the orbs with subweapons for all kinds of magic spells was really fun and has kept Juste a standout character for me. I have a feeling if the gameplay systems of Harmony were more like Aria of sorrow I would have loved the castle more. I remember it being like you said visually pleasing. the game just didn't connect for me that much
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 27, 2016 18:53:40 GMT -6
Obviously not what I'm meaning. The whole point of this thread is to list thoughts on each castle. My point is considering SOTN is usually regarded as one of the best in the series, I don't see many on this site that consider it the best. So whenever I nerd out about SOTN I feel kinda like I'm the lone wolf. haha. I was just saying go figure I'm at odds with a lot of people here because I typically am here lol. I don't think you're the lone wolf, I just think a lot of the people on here a super-analytical, and try to look at things from every possible angle, and see all the pros and cons to what they're lookin' at. I honestly think that Symphony of the Night is IGA's best work, even if it doesn't happen to be my favorite out of his work. Symphony of the Night had SO many cool and unique things added to it. Special attacks, spells, familiars that felt more like companions rather than spells, I mean if Symphony was the first Castlevania game I had ever played, and not Circle of the Moon and Aria of Sorrow, I am almost POSITIVE that it would be my favorite one right now. As far as castles go, one thing that I liked about Symphony of the night was how many different areas there were. I mean sure, the Inverted castle didn't touch things up too much as far as aesthetics are concerned, (with the exception of the Floating Catacombs) but there were so many diverse and unique areas. I personally thought that the Royal Chapel, and the Long Library were STUNNING. It was definitely a landscape that I had never encountered in another IGAvania, and that, I liked. Symphony of the Night had a lot going for it, and the castle was no exception. I wish I remembered Harmony of dissonances castle better. I would have commented on it and circle of the moon but those two castles are a blur to me
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 27, 2016 18:33:46 GMT -6
I guess I don't want the team to treat any individual game as sacrosanct in regards to how they build Bloodstained. I mean Portrait was my intro, IGAvania was the formula I found first too, but I also adore a lot of the pre-IGA games. Super Castlevania IV and Rondo of Blood are both in my top 5, with Dracula's Curse and Bloodlines landing in my top 10. I love both the level based action games AND the big sprawling Castles. Maybe that puts me at a bit of an advantage when it comes to this game since if they adhere to SOTN like the bible I'll be fine but if they throw in some cool systems from other games I'm also fine (Classic Mode has me really, really hype for example). From my standpoint one of the reasons Bloodstained looks so appealing to me is because it looks like a big marriage of IGA's various games. It's got a big sprawling castle like Aria and SOTN, a power system that is, essentially, a beefed up version of Soma's Dominance system, the protagonist is a dark haired cursed girl like OoE...its like a big celebration of IGA's work as opposed to just being "Its this particular Castlevania game part 2 with HD graphics" and I like that. Well, except for Harmony of Dissonance, I havent seen anything reminiscent of that game and, well, as much as I like that game I also don't want to phase between Castle A and Castle B. Ugh. Also on a more personal note, are not all of our opinions and views about the series valuable? I don't want to pick a fight but the way you phrased that almost makes it sound like you want to just find a room with a bunch of other SOTN fans and just talk about how great SOTN is. I mean, is it really so bad that a lot of the people here really love all of IGA's games as opposed to just going on and on about SOTN? I get enough of that from the FB game groups I frequent so this environment where I can talk about Ecclesia or Portrait or Harmony and get some good discussion about those games too feels great to me. Obviously not what I'm meaning. The whole point of this thread is to list thoughts on each castle. My point is considering SOTN is usually regarded as one of the best in the series, I don't see many on this site that consider it the best. So whenever I nerd out about SOTN I feel kinda like I'm the lone wolf. haha. I love the fact that bloodstained takes influences from many games. That's a good idea. I was just saying go figure I'm at odds with a lot of people here because I typically am here lol. It's a message board though people will disagree, God knows Crocodile and me do that all the time.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 27, 2016 17:22:56 GMT -6
I will say one thing in favor of Portrait of Ruin's castle. Mainly it was my first IGAvania and I'm very attached to it because of it, but I will agree it has a weaker Castle than most of the others (granted the sheer creativity of the Portraits overrides it for me quite handily). There is one area in PoR I like, and thats the Underground Prison, or whatever its called (been over a year since I really played around with it). I liked the jail cells and how there were glowy eyed things in the shadows shaking the bars, it was really atmospheric. It was also a very sewer-esque area and that felt unique as well. Most 'Vania games take place before sewers were invented so what would normally be "ugh, another sewer level" was instead "hey a sewer level, I've never seen this in Castlevania before!" I need to figure out who are the users who think SOTN is their favorite. I feel like I'm at odds with a lot of the people here. The jail is a good example of what I dislike haha. Go figure. I also dislike the portrait system, granted its a cool idea for variety but the hub systems just always feel lazy to me. I love to see how they connect locations in a castle so to just throw portraits that override that kinda bums me out. Same thing for Order but granted. I'm not an oldschool vania fan. Aria and SOTN were the ones that got me into the series. So anything veering more to the old ways makes me more bummed out
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 27, 2016 17:04:33 GMT -6
I want to say I'm really happy the man who designed Aria and Dawn's castle is working on the new one. While I'm not a HUGE fan of Dawn's, Aria'a gives me the SOTN feels with its castle.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 27, 2016 16:48:27 GMT -6
The contents of the rooms matter as much if not more than their arrangement. The map you have on hand for Order of Ecclesia doesn't tell us anything about the contents of the rooms so I'm not sure how relevant the comparison is (that and as you said it only represents half the game rather than all of it). You also don't have a map for the Dawn of Sorrow so its also a bit hard to have in this conversation. Obviously, this conversation would be at its highest quality if we had all played through these game relatively recently but unfortunately nobody has a schedule for that It think the biggest, more objective distinction between the map in SOTN and the maps in later games is that its more spread out (but its hard for me to say exactly how much more spread out - I bet if I did the math it would be less so than either of us would expect). I'd probably have to measure it somehow to be sure but I think you spend a lot more time moving horizontal than in a lot of the later games which have a greater sense of verticality and more dense sections. I think SOTN might lend itself a bit better to a sense of exploration due to being ore spread out but I certainly don't think the interactions and happenings in any particular room is better. I think dense rooms or sections probably make for better platforming opportunities though (if only IGA was more interested in taking advantage of them.......). With regards to room repetition, I think that was something that deeply plagued POR and to a much lesser extent OoE but I never felt that was a real problem for Aria or Dawn of Sorrow. At least not a problem in a way that wouldn't also be an issue for SOTN. I would also argue that Aria and Dawn of Sorrow had more diverse locales within their castles. Environmental diversity is very important to me and I DON'T think SOTN did the best job of all the castles. I'd have t think deep and long to decide if Aria or Dawn of Sorrow wins in that regard. To be fair, I did post a map of DOS but for some reason the image got messed up. I can't find one of Order but it definitely had an issue of repetition but as we both said it was more of an afterthought castle. Aria I love, dawns is pretty good as well. Portrait and Order have the worst castle designs imo. In terms of big boxed rooms being better for platforming i don't know if I agree. I think the more spread out approach is a more enjoyable form of platforming. For instance jumping from one side of the bell tower to the other while watching out for flying skeletons and crows. Verticality is great but SOTN does it in a way where it doesn't feel like a dense area of repetition. The verticality in SOTN has a very diagonal and nicely constructed feel to it. In other words.... Instead of Dawn where it had a very big box where you work your way up. SOTN has stuff like orlox quarters, where you go up the clock into that big room with stairs then you go to the right fly up and make your way through a prison and drop down to a quarter with broken down bridges and stuff. It's just a more spread out way to travel. I agree that SOTN didn't have more diverse locations but I thought they were better designed locations that felt more fitting within a castle. The locations were spaced out and laid out in a way that felt enjoyable to explore. It's less enjoyable when a location is a glorified giant box with platforms in it. Diversity is good but nothing beats something that is designed expertly. SOTN>ARIA>DAWN>>>>>>Portrait/Order in terms of castle design for me. I wish people would go with the pro vs cons of each castle. Didn't want to get into back and forth paragraphs lol.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 27, 2016 13:13:52 GMT -6
I'm at work right, so I'll just have time for one small con (debatable) with the SotN map: The Underground Caverns was a one-way area, in terms of not being able to backtrack once you fall into the hole. From a game design/art direction standpoint it's a great decision as it gives a very unique vibe to the area compared to the other areas ( claustrophobic, very bottomless pit-like ) although from a completionist/backtracking standpoint running through the area does eat up a lot of idle time. Thanks, I needed some kind of con for it.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 27, 2016 12:46:06 GMT -6
I know those of you that have played SotN, have gotten the Heaven Sword... I want more of these types of weapons in the game, when you have one, instead of swinging it you throw it and it comes back to you... the best part was when you equipped two of them and pressed the two attack buttons at the same time you get this awesome attack... I'm not good at explaining stuff so I will leave a video of it here. Now who doesn't think this is awesome Yes, but the video if anything showed me how much I love the super jump in SOTN. I love how you could make it go diagonal.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 27, 2016 11:49:20 GMT -6
I thought it'd be cool and helpful to really disect each IGA castle and really get down to the nit and grit of what makes them work and what makes them not work at times. SOTN CASTLEPROS: -SOTN covers great distance. They let the areas expand outward in an organic way rather than bunching areas together unrealistically. - SOTN is very good about giving you distinctions within each area. The minute it starts to feel repetitive the backgrounds look switches or you do something different. Just look at the chapel. You go up a giant staircase into a room of stain glass into bell towers, and just as the bell towers gets old you're out of it into the throne area. - There's a lot of areas in the castle where the floor isn't just a flat ground but more cave like in its structure. CONS: It's my favorite castle so i'm having a hard time coming up with something. Any help? DAWN OF SORROWPROS: - The areas are pretty diverse in terms of style. - Lots of nice environmental touches peppered throughout. ( Chandeliers, piano...etc) CONS: This is a criticism I have for a few of the modern games. A lot of the areas are bunched together. -Look at the Demon Guest house, it's essentially a big box that you climb up and up in. The areas are very stacked instead of spread out. Instead of feeling like you're moving around great distances within a location you kinda just climb up and rely more on your map. That's not to say I want giant hallways but a location that spreads out more in an interesting way. ( this issue plagues a lot of the areas) - There's a lot of towers but they don't have a good feel to them so they come off as a bit more repetitive. For instance the tower all the way to the right, where you fight the boss. It's a cool area but underground it continues. It's too much of the same thing that it loses it's freshness. - Areas are too close to each other. Demon Guest house is right next to the garden which is right next to the chapel. It's WAY too close and feels kinda weird to me. ARIA OF SORROW PROS ( my second favorite Castle) - Like SOTN it does a good job of mixing up each location enough to make it feel fresh constantly. - Also like SOTN it feels as though you travel more within each location instead of it seeming bunched up. - All around well designed. CONS ? ORDER OF ECCLESIA
PROS: - Some areas look pretty visually beautiful in terms of art design. - It's not overly boxy in design CONS - It's hard to properly judge this castle because it's more of an afterthought in this game so it's obvious it wouldn't get the design attention as other games castles. - Very, very repetitive and very barebones. You will go room to room of the same design to a T. Anything you want to add? What's your pros and cons of each castle? ( also do we have any other maps with the layout within them that I can add to this post?
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 26, 2016 11:45:40 GMT -6
the sound effects on sotn are special to me. they had a lot more punch to them Completely agree, especially the fire sound effects, its one of the things that bummed me out post SOTN. The sound effects all sounded very uncool in comparison. We have Yamane to thank for the cool SOTN sound effects. They should just let her take a crack at it again.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 26, 2016 10:48:29 GMT -6
I feel like I'm one of the only ones that doesnt want either an Inverted/Mirror castle OR a second castle located elsewhere or a Chaos Realm. I just want one big, intricate, well designed castle where you get to the Throne room and fight Gebel. Maybe its just because I didn't play SOTN until I got a PSP and got Dracula X Chronicles and by that point, I'd already played every other IGAvania (I love the DS so I got to bang out all 6 of them in a row nice and easy). So I don't have that experience from decades ago of "Wow I've never seen anything like this before look at how much game there is to play still!". My view on it is more "Hey that was a neat gimmick to get more out of the assets at the time." I dont want to see that again. Maybe that's just me but I'd rather see IGA flex his muscles elsewhere in making Bloodstained more unique as opposed to throwing in as many "remember this from SOTN?" moments, especially in regards to re-using the game's most iconic gimmick. To each their own! It's already re-using a lot of ideas so I don't see the problem. As i've said there are unique ways to tackle old ideas and flesh them out so that they feel unique. It's not impossible. I'm not against having just one REALLY good castle, I'm just saying any extension to the game thats done well is a good thing to me. The part of what made the inverted castle special was, it gave you a new set of enemies that were harder, some new environment hazards, and new bosses. That made it worthwhile to me, but even still it was on a more limited basis. So expanding all those things would be cool.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 26, 2016 9:23:47 GMT -6
I feel like on a grand basis more people would support an inverted castle but in a message board setting it feels like it's not the case.
It sucks to me but it is what it is. You say it's an assumption to claim the second CASTLE would be less imaginative but I don't see how that's the case. They have to build TWO castles versus building one REALLY good one and flipping it with some cool changes sprinkled here and there. Which is easier? I don't imagine it being easy to make a 1600 room castle and then design an additional smaller castle. I think the inverted idea was just a cool flip on things. We have yet to experience that since SOTN, yet we keep getting an additional secret areas in each game which is ...cool but it never hit the specialness of the inverted one.
This reminds me of Order of Ecclesia. Was it cool that you ended up finding a castle in the end? Yeah but it was a poorly designed Castle. So to me, the reason inverted castle wins is because it's the main castle they spent the bulk of production designing, so flipping that promises a more meaningful playthrough then something that is very repetitive and more of an after thought.
It doesn't have to be the SAME EXACT idea but if they're gonna do something like that, I rather it be bold and very cool then something like... here's an extra demon realm.
ECHO CHAMBER COMMMENCEEE
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 25, 2016 18:49:59 GMT -6
I wouldn't like that. The reason why the inverted Castle worked so well is because it's the same 'well designed' Castle. I can't imagine a second castle being well designed if it's a completely separate entity. Time constraints/money. Flipping a castle doesn't effect anything so you keep the great design, but have an extended game in a different way. Well said. See, this is why I didn't care for the Inverse castle in SotN. It just wasn't different enough to hold my attention that well. Granted more bosses were cool, but still... Fair enough, but that doesn't mean they can't make it more unique. There's a lot of potential to expand on that original idea.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 25, 2016 11:34:55 GMT -6
Stranger Things is truly awesome. It's all my favorite 80's movies into one! I just finished the show... and yes CastleDan I feel the same way it felt like a scarier goonies show. And yes it sucks that it only has 8 episodes. I get over this by thinking of it as a "mini-series" though. I don't see it having a squeal though... unless happens years later with Mike and his friends older and eleven coming back the same age or something. What really gets me is Winona Ryder which was an 80's starlet is a mom here lol. but yeah it was a really good show. They're definitely doing more seasons, they've said this but to them it's a sequel. It'll pick up with the same characters. They said that they really fleshed out the lore, like the (UD) you'll know what I mean... There's a 30 page document fleshing it out.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 25, 2016 8:07:59 GMT -6
Yeah, I think we'll get 1600 with a bonus castle, but that was kinda the topic of another thread where I shared the same opinion.. Forgetting what we THINK we're going to get, and what we ARE going to get. I'm just saying I'd rather have a 3200 room castle if you will, than two 1600 room castles (unless they are completely different, as in not just a mirror or upside down, or 'light/dark', version of the other). Not that I think we're GOING to get a 3200 room castle. Imagine how cool it would be if we had a 1600 room castle, as they said, the one gebel made for Miriam (tha twas officially said right? not just theory? I forget now).. then after you beat it, you find out Gebel made his own effing castle as well =P. I'd die if that were the case instead of just some 'alternate' thing. I wouldn't like that. The reason why the inverted Castle worked so well is because it's the same 'well designed' Castle. I can't imagine a second castle being well designed if it's a completely separate entity. Time constraints/money. Flipping a castle doesn't effect anything so you keep the great design, but have an extended game in a different way.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 22, 2016 10:05:56 GMT -6
Yeah, with romscout he said that some shards will be found in chests. ( probably abilities ) which will serve as relics I'd imagine. So special spells, button input action moves, double jump.
Stuff like that.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 22, 2016 9:15:08 GMT -6
Stranger Things is truly awesome.
It's all my favorite 80's movies into one!
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 22, 2016 8:34:00 GMT -6
Except it probably wouldn't be like that at all. It'd be 1,600 castle with an inverted 1,600 castle otherwise it wouldn't be the biggest castle. So.....If the inverted is in, it'll be absolutely massive. That totally wasn't my point at all. pretend I said 'x' and '2x' if you will. I feel like I'm missing something. You mentioned you rather have a 2,000 singular castle than a smaller castle doubled. However, my point is most likely it'd be the biggest castle but doubled. So, to me it's a grander experience. The way I'm reading your post is you're saying if there's an inverted castle it'll probably be a split of the 1,600. Which is why you used the example of 2,000 rooms vs 1,000 with inverted. However, I think if it's in the game it'll be 1,600 doubled not split. Now if your point was you rather have a 1,600 room singular castle than it doubled because you think that's too much, then I can understand your point but idk. I'll never complain about more game in an IGAVANIA.
|
|
inherit
7
0
Jun 28, 2019 21:35:13 GMT -6
1,291
CastleDan
1,514
May 28, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -6
May 2015
castledan
|
Post by CastleDan on Jul 21, 2016 18:15:17 GMT -6
I think some of us are being misunderstood. It's not that we would dislike to see an inverted castle. Well I can't speak for everyone but my view isn't that I would hate to see a castle inverted or whatnot. Just that I'd rather have one 2000 room castle than a 1000 room castle partially re-done via inversion or what have you. Basically I have no clue how much development time is saved choosing to invert a castle rather than simply make it twice as large, it probably depends on who is ahead of their job and who is behind. If the music development or monster design is behind, and you have new bgm/enemy types for every area re-done in an inverted castle, you woudln't really save time inverting the castle than just making each area 10% larger (but with some new styled rooms in it at least) in the first castle or something. But if say, the modeling/level design is behind. Inverting the castle gives you more game without causing stress on the bottleneck. So yeah, I'd prefer a single castle twice as large all things being equal, but I very much would rather see something like an inverted castle if it'll give us 'more game' for the time spent developing it. Except it probably wouldn't be like that at all. It'd be 1,600 castle with an inverted 1,600 castle otherwise it wouldn't be the biggest castle. So.....If the inverted is in, it'll be absolutely massive.
|
|