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Post by dareka on Jun 13, 2017 8:52:08 GMT -6
I think it depends on how good the demo is, how big it is, and most importantly, if the team feel confident putting out there or not. If the answers to those is Pretty darn good, Pretty big for a demo, and yes they do feel confident in giving it out, then I would be all for putting it out there for everyone on as many platforms as possible. I know as a PS4 backer I'd love to try the demo there rather then PC, and I would not mind others getting a hold of it. (Although if the PC demo can map to a PS4 controler it's fine too) I think that, if they do a free demo for everyone, it would be closer to launch, or maybe even post-launch, so that it's really based on the complete game. But, while I'm a little suspicious of any conclusions drawn from a "cumulative" sales chart, if there is data showing demo's don't help sales in general, the message to developers is to tread carefully. Maybe just good ole-fashioned word of mouth from a dedicated community is best.
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Post by dareka on Jun 13, 2017 0:23:32 GMT -6
My two cents on the game's, based on what I've seen from the recent updates and E3 demo...
I think that one the whole it's looking fantastic - I really didn't imagine it looking this good when I backed it.
That said, there are obviously still some rough spots here and there, but I mean, come on - we're still a year away from launch. A lot of the assets are barely being made, and yes, assets are polished right up until the end of development, believe it or not. To see this level of quality only a few months after they changed developers is very encouraging.
As far as the movement speed is concerned... well, to me it both looks fast enough and is fast enough - opinions will differ, obviously, but I think the game's delivering on its promise here. It's not like the kickstarer pitch was "A faster Igavania than any you've ever played!"
My biggest concern is not the game, but the marketing: lot's of people have never played this type of game, and they won't necessarily "get it" without giving it some playtime ... which they won't do if they don't get it at first glance. Therein lies the problem, and I just hope 505 games has a good strategy.
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Post by dareka on Jun 12, 2017 0:57:11 GMT -6
I don't have any inside information on this, but just based on the way IGA described it I wouldn't describe what he's talking about as possible censorship—it sounded more like "During the initial process I go really far into the ideas I have, and I may or may not pull it back in the final product as I refine it." Which is a good way to write/create art, in my experience—better to have a first draft that's a little too intense but has fun things in it than a first draft that's really boring and you have to try punching up. Well, he said (translating his words literally)... でこのボス、これから出るんですけれど、気をつけなきゃいけないのは、ちょっと表現が、ちょっとやり過ぎたかもしれないので、ここから緩和される可能性があります "So this boss, it's about to come out, but what you need to bear in mind is, the visuals, see - I may have gone overboard, so it's possible it'll be toned down from here."
It's not really clear if he means he went overboard for his own taste, or his publisher's taste, or the market's taste - but he doesn't seem too worried about it, honestly, so neither should we.
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Post by dareka on Jun 10, 2017 12:24:27 GMT -6
I voted no - not because I'd be unwilling to support IGA again, but because of the fact that if the sequel needs a Kickstarter, that means the original wasn't successful enough to warrant a sequel through conventional means.
And man, I really want the original to be successful enough to warrant a sequel.
It would probably be a lot cheaper to develop, too, since the engine and many of the assets could be reused.
Basically, I'd love for this franchise to become a thing...and I think it's up to us to spread the word to newcomers and make it happen.
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Post by dareka on Apr 1, 2017 0:08:38 GMT -6
Yes, because she seems quite different from the other characters - reminds me of Sypha and Yoko.
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Post by dareka on Mar 29, 2017 22:53:05 GMT -6
Nice to know there'll be more characters fleshing out the story. BTW, Dominique is what is known in Japan as " お色気担当" (o-iroke tantou) - she's in charge of (i.e., brings the) sex appeal. Judging how long it took for fan-art to pop up, I'd say she's doing her job well
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Post by dareka on Feb 11, 2017 1:03:38 GMT -6
I was impressed by how close the in-game models are to the concept art. The first time I saw the screenshots, I thought I was looking at concept art renders (the fact that I was looking at them on my cellphone probably helped, but still. )
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Post by dareka on Dec 13, 2016 19:14:17 GMT -6
I was hoping that this would've been known by all by now but then again I suppose it's also a good thing that they did address this in its own update. Good job guys. It's the old adage: " a picture is worth a thousand words." Seeing the difference in action is sure to assuage any fears people might have.
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Post by dareka on Dec 13, 2016 19:10:06 GMT -6
Sure this is cool and all, but everybody seems to be missing the most important part of what we should be getting form this update. That we should be sending get well soon wishes to IGA! True, so true! Get well soon, IGA! お大事に!
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Post by dareka on Dec 13, 2016 15:54:24 GMT -6
They're making very smart use of procedural generation: create the asset once, then reuse it a million times but with procedural generation, so that it looks different each time.
This is what IGA meant when he said they couldn't maintain the quality with their previous development approach: imagine if all those variations had to be made by artists one by one - their production time and budget would balloon to the point where the game would never come out.
The alternative of dropping the quality of the assets would have given us another Mighty Number 9.
IGA made the right call.
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Post by dareka on Nov 26, 2016 14:44:38 GMT -6
This was the most interesting quote for me... " we ended up having to build games in 3D with budgets that were probably unrealistic. That's what I largely consider to be the primary issue with the 3D games I've made. If you look at these games, while they're not received super well, people usually like the core game system. They just don't like the background effects or they don't like the flat worlds; basically they don't like the things that would have required more money to create.
" That was the main issue I had with Lament of Innocence: the system was spot-on, but the rooms were all just boxes, and you didn't really have much incentive to fight the monsters to get from one room to the other - you could just avoid them entirely. I'd love to see what IGA can do in 3D with a proper budget.
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Post by dareka on Nov 26, 2016 0:06:25 GMT -6
dareka that is interesting conjecture, it might not be exactly how things happened but it certainly gives food for thought. The way you jump from 3.4 to 3.7 is also intriguing, something you choose not to post? Sorry, messed up. Did clear 3.5 and 3.6, but don't remember what they were. Some speculation I didn't feel strongly about, I think. I also tried to be careful with the wording of 3.3 and 3.4. I didn't mean bugs were spilling in from the lead version to the others, just that there may have been some issues when moving from one platform to another. Lots of reasons why this may happen, especially if developers are not that proficient in the middleware - but yes, it's the most speculativie of the bunch.
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Post by dareka on Nov 25, 2016 23:59:22 GMT -6
Well, Mana has already posted more information, so I don't know if I can provide anything more than a summary, but here goes. Game Design/Planning: Art Play / Inti Creates. Concept Art/Basic Game Structure: Inti Creates. Main production/Development: DICO. Game Engine/Technical Support: Monobit. Publisher: 505 Games. So, what I think happened, in short. 1. They had the basic game design, the concept art, the game structure and the shader's look all more or less locked. 2. They went into mass production of assets and full implementation of the game... 3. ...at which point it became apparent that Inti's way out of its depth: 3.1 The art is not being generated fast enough. 3.2 What's being generated is taking up too much memory. 3.3 They're having trouble porting the game engine to other platforms, despite using UE4. 3.4 Heck, even the lead PC version has more bugs than they can handle. 3.7 IGA can't concentrate on polishing, because of all the fires he needs to put out. 4. So at this point, IGA realizes that, to finish, they'll have to drop the quality of the assets and delay the game. He's looking at another MN9, basically. 5. Being the great guy and responsible project manager that he is, IGA says to Inti, " Guys, you know how much I respect your work and how great it is. But I gotta tell ya, I need a team with a more efficient approach to development and greater knowledge of UE4 if we're gonna get this done." Inti, being the reasonable people they are, admit he's right, and agree to see the project through to the end in a diminished capacity (i.e., no more development, just design and art). 6. Possibly (pure speculation based on a hunch), a previous publisher balks at the delay and the budget increase that the changes will entail. IGA finds a new publisher in 505 games. 7. Nervously, IGA announces the changes to his fans. Unexpectedly, fans show an overwhelming amount of support. 8. They bring in a team with a more efficient development style to basically reimplement the game from scratch (toss away all of Inti's code and just keep all the assets and shaders they can), from a new engine built by Monobit. 9. Everybody's happy! Cue Final Fantasy Fanfare. thats probably fairly accurate (maybe not cascading bugs since you build one version of the game first and then use ue4 to export to other systems and then optimize those versions, and i seriously doubt point 8s accurate, codes code and ue4 IS the engine) although just because inti has a slightly reduced role because now they arent handling asset creation AND asset implementation, doesnt mean their role is less important now they are handling asset CREATION and DICO/monobit are handling asset IMPLEMENTATION and UE4 toolkit production, that means inti is freed up to do what they are best at, while someone specialized makes sure it all gets into the game and theres someone making sure its all done in a timely manner ^_^ A little elaboration on point 8... There are different level's of engines, right? Even if you have the UE4, there's the game's "engine" built on top of that. That's what I meant. The tossing out of code from Inti, though... I mean, I doubt they'd keep much of anything non-shader related. It's pretty clear the overhaul needed is pretty big. When that happens, at least from my experience, it's easier to toss the whole thing out and start again from scratch rather than to try to salvage unsuitable code. This is also consistent with a delay of roughly a year.
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Post by dareka on Nov 25, 2016 13:27:38 GMT -6
So based on my guess, everything laid out so far: Concept & Core development: Artplay & Inti CreatesMassive Content Production: DICONetwork & Online features, Debugging etc. : MonobitPublishing: 505 Games
Localization: Not decided yet. and I'd really like to hear opinion about this update from someone who is "inside the scene" dareka Well, Mana has already posted more information, so I don't know if I can provide anything more than a summary, but here goes. Game Design/Planning: Art Play / Inti Creates. Concept Art/Basic Game Structure: Inti Creates. Main production/Development: DICO. Game Engine/Technical Support: Monobit. Publisher: 505 Games. So, what I think happened, in short. 1. They had the basic game design, the concept art, the game structure and the shader's look all more or less locked. 2. They went into mass production of assets and full implementation of the game... 3. ...at which point it became apparent that Inti's way out of its depth: 3.1 The art is not being generated fast enough. 3.2 What's being generated is taking up too much memory. 3.3 They're having trouble porting the game engine to other platforms, despite using UE4. 3.4 Heck, even the lead PC version has more bugs than they can handle. 3.7 IGA can't concentrate on polishing, because of all the fires he needs to put out. 4. So at this point, IGA realizes that, to finish, they'll have to drop the quality of the assets and delay the game. He's looking at another MN9, basically. 5. Being the great guy and responsible project manager that he is, IGA says to Inti, " Guys, you know how much I respect your work and how great it is. But I gotta tell ya, I need a team with a more efficient approach to development and greater knowledge of UE4 if we're gonna get this done." Inti, being the reasonable people they are, admit he's right, and agree to see the project through to the end in a diminished capacity (i.e., no more development, just design and art). 6. Possibly (pure speculation based on a hunch), a previous publisher balks at the delay and the budget increase that the changes will entail. IGA finds a new publisher in 505 games. 7. Nervously, IGA announces the changes to his fans. Unexpectedly, fans show an overwhelming amount of support. 8. They bring in a team with a more efficient development style to basically reimplement the game from scratch (toss away all of Inti's code and just keep all the assets and shaders they can), from a new engine built by Monobit. 9. Everybody's happy! Cue Final Fantasy Fanfare.
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Post by dareka on Oct 25, 2016 21:40:41 GMT -6
UE4 coming to Switch, so... Yeah, I think it'll rather end up on that system. Probably won't be able to find a Wii U in stores by 2018.
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Post by dareka on Oct 9, 2016 15:59:53 GMT -6
I always thought it was a bad idea for a Wii U version. I know there were quite a few people screaming "WII U!!!!!" on the Kickstarter page, but ultimately the number of people that have a Wii U and nothing else must be minuscule. And I can't see why anyone would refuse to play it on PS4 or PC. So I'm not surprised to see these statements. I think part of the appeal is the Wii U pad, which could be used for showing the map and such. At any rate, what I'd like to see now is if NX will be supported by Unreal 4 or not. If it is (and I see no reason why it wouldn't), then it would be a no-brainer to port it over to that console. If the console supports using the portable screen as a secondary screen, you'd get all the advantages of the Wii U.
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Post by dareka on Oct 7, 2016 10:09:48 GMT -6
My two(three) cents on this... 1. I have a feeling that neither the Wii U nor the Vita version will ever come out. If either of them does come out, I don't think the fans on those platforms will be very happy with the results. 2. Though I haven't mentioned it before, I've always felt this was the one mistake IGA and Co. did make during the Kickstarter Campaign: promising the game for vastly under-powered hardware. 3. That said, I think IGA will bend over backwards to make it up to fans waiting for those ports. I think he will offer the refund option. So, what do I base my gut feelings on? 1 & 2. The way game development works nowadays is you have something called the lead platform, often (but not always) the PC, which is the one all development is done on first. The game engine and assets are created with the lead platform in mind. The game is then ported to other platforms using the " save as" feature Kitti_W mentions. This process, however, does not always go very smoothly. At the end of the day, you're dealing with different hardware, a different OS, a different development environment. So, what you do is you go iron out the wrinkles on the secondary platform ports, and once there are no more wrinkles, you optimize so that it runs smoother. Well, guess what? When you have vastly under-powered hardware, those wrinkles turn into outright cracks. Sometimes, patching those cracks up is more work than rebuilding the game from scratch - which is, by the way, how ports used to be handled, because games not being as big back then as they are now, it wasn't really a problem. Two things are at play here: code and assets. Even if the code is running smoothly (and, uhm, that's a big if), the assets won't. So the assets are downgraded - end of story, right? Well, they don't always look very nice when downgraded, especially if there's some fancy shading involved. In the case of the Vita, making them look acceptable might end up being a lot of work, and they still won't look as good as games designed from the ground up for the platform, which is what Vita users are probably expecting. The Wii U sounds a bit more feasible but... it probably won't run very smoothly without a good deal of work. Also, procedural asset generation - I'm not very knowledgeable on this issue, but can the Vita even handle it, as implemented in UE4? If the game is too big to generate all assets by hand, it's probably too big a task to make those assets work on Vita. The result, I fear, will be this: the funds provided by backers of the Wii U and Vita versions will not be enough to justify the amount of money it's going to take to bring those versions up-to-par. 3. Faced with this situation, it would make sense for IGA to offer refunds, regardless of the logistical difficulties. He wants to do right by his fans, and if he can't deliver on one of his promises offering a refund is the best option. Then again, this is all speculation on my part... if Armature can get everything to work, and Wii U/Vita versions that users are satisfied with ever see the light of day, well, they are indeed an amazing studio.
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Post by dareka on Sept 13, 2016 10:42:10 GMT -6
Thanks for the clarifications. I'm still curious as to what the additional dev team is exactly contributing to the project. Is it too just beef up the staff because there's a lot to do or are they being used for a SPECIFIC reason? ( I'm not really knowledgeable when it comes to game development) I'm not Mana , nor part of the dev team, obviously, but I thought I might chime in here and say we shouldn't be too curious as to the details. Game development entails formal contracts with non-disclosure agreements and such. When you add/switch developers, you're either nullifying or altering the original contract, either by mutual agreement from both parties, or due to one of the parties unilaterally exercising a privilege stipulated in the original contract. Because of the sensitive nature of contractual obligations (and why they were or were not fulfilled), the specifics are never revealed beyond the parties involved. What we, as fans have to understand, is that any reticence by the team to go into further detail is not lack of transparency, it's professionalism. So I'm sure there will be questions and that IGA and Co. will elaborate on why the changes were necessary, but there might come a point where they can't elaborate more and this should not be construed as "hiding" something. Anyway, if I had to take a guess I'd say it was done for either technology reasons, manpower, or both. They might need a new developer with more experience than Inti has in a certain type of technology, or who simply has more available staff who are knowledgeable in that area than Inti. I think it's a technology issue, because asset development is normally outsourced to begin with, but who knows. But we should be satisfied with whatever the devs are able to tell us (and not point fingers and let speculation run wild - I'm preempting, I know, and it's probably not necessary with this community, but just in case).
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Post by dareka on Sept 10, 2016 22:56:07 GMT -6
I felt for a fact this game was not hitting March 2017, and forget the notions this is a new IP. That was a target date for nostalgia, not a genuine release: March 2017 is the 20th anniversary of SotN, and that's the only reason it was pitched in the Kickstarter. That said, I am surprised it's missing 2017 in full. You would have figured that by E3 they would have a floorplan of when features, systems, ideas, and implementations on how they're going about it and have a timeline available in some capacity. Being able to even showcase the opening location, almost as if it's complete, makes missing 2017 even more surprising to me. The current target date gives the impression something is weird with development, like a huge offshoot of issues, or they've finally hit an "oh shit" moment with having to make the game in full and its promised features. Especially as they've only announced they're aiming for it now. Adding apparently another development team only points in this way, as well... I mean, consider how one of the goals was a fully-orchestrated soundtrack. We've heard no song yet that shows this. Things like that are going to add up, and I imagine they're now in the phase to really start seeing this. We'll probably get a better idea of what the issue is once the new developer is announced. But it's nothing really weird at this point. This happens a lot in gave development - we just never hear about it. In fact, games are delayed even more than people think. When development starts, the team will have an internal target release date. This one is never revealed to the public. I'm willing to bet hardly any game nowadays meets this date. The public only learns of delays when they happen after the publisher has given a date. What happens with Kickstarters is not that they get delayed more often than other games, it's that, since they're forced to put out a release date at the start of a project, they reveal the equivalent to an internal target release date. So comparing them to publisher backed projects is not really fair. I know of big games that have missed their internal release date several times, made their developers pull their hair out, and come out to glowing reviews and healthy sales numbers; and the public never even knew of the delays (seeing as how the games were only announced after suffering several delays), much less the internal drama at the developer. With Kickstarters we get to see part of this - that's the difference.
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Post by dareka on Sept 9, 2016 20:56:16 GMT -6
You know, when I first heard the news, I thought there might be some backlash, too. I was really encouraged by this thread, though. Then I looked at the likes for the video on YouTube: 1713 thumbs up, vs 40 thumbs down. I mean, that's 2.3% of people who disapprove. 2.3 percent. In other words, 97.7 percent of us approve. How do you get better numbers than that? The backer community's really behind IGA. I'd wager most of the negative remarks you'll find are from people who are neither backing nor have any interest in the project in the first place. They'll just jump on any kickstarter project bashing bandwagon they come accross. Best ignore them.
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