EbonAnimus
Ancient Legion
[TI0] Sorry 4 bad english,only learnd from Games and Anime subtitles ;)
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[TI0] Sorry 4 bad english,only learnd from Games and Anime subtitles ;)
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Post by EbonAnimus on Jul 8, 2015 15:56:29 GMT -6
I hope some abandoned garden in the castle with some moist and narrow caves bound by its roots under it. An inverted tower of babel that leads to hell would be nice either^^ And would be nice if Gebel had summoned a hidden evil greater than himself,sealed in there since ancient times, together with the castle;)
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 9, 2015 21:01:10 GMT -6
One of those items greatly helps out with the boss fight in that area because it's a crit-monster! Jewel Knuckles is a monster early-game, you can use that until you get to the catacombs or later. It really helps. So replaying Order of Ecclesia and some notes. I like it a lot more than I originally did when I first play it but my main issue with later Igavania's is very prevalent here. The layouts are awful. Visually it's one of the better games, especially the castle. It's artistically very cool. Unfortunately, the way they layout these locations is very dull and repetitive. It's a game full of copy and paste backgrounds into hallways and big square rooms. You play SOTN and the way they layout the locations isn't in a repetitive way and it's more often than not has some geometry that isn't repeated over and over. You have the entrance area----> into hallway--->room with merman and a stone structure with water at the bottom---> repeating hallway----> into room where death sees you. There's variety there right? Order is.... Entrance ----> hallway---Big room staircase thing---->big room staircase thing---> repetitive hallway---> Big room staircase. There's just too much repetition and too much simple layouts. I REALLY, REALLY hope they strive to correct this and I always hoped that was a budgetary/time constraint issue. It always bugged me how much more copy and pasted the games got as it went along. Aria of Sorrow and SOTN were the two games that really strived to have a well designed castle imo. I second this. Portrait of Ruin was especially not so good because of repetitive rooms. Hell, there even was two portraits with the same layout. Yup, SOTN worked because the layout of all the backgrounds were unique. It wasn't just square room into hallway into square room type designs.
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Post by twilightvulpine on Jul 10, 2015 21:26:30 GMT -6
Jewel Knuckles is a monster early-game, you can use that until you get to the catacombs or later. It really helps. I second this. Portrait of Ruin was especially not so good because of repetitive rooms. Hell, there even was two portraits with the same layout. Yup, SOTN worked because the layout of all the backgrounds were unique. It wasn't just square room into hallway into square room type designs. One of the details about the randomly generated castle is that it would be very hard to make it unique enough when compared to a man-made level design
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ChucklesTheJester
Ancient Legion
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Post by ChucklesTheJester on Jul 10, 2015 22:40:40 GMT -6
One of the details about the randomly generated castle is that it would be very hard to make it unique enough when compared to a man-made level design If there's a great enough variety in the rooms, that won't matter though.
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
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[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 11, 2015 7:29:05 GMT -6
One of the details about the randomly generated castle is that it would be very hard to make it unique enough when compared to a man-made level design If there's a great enough variety in the rooms, that won't matter though. I just hope we get some Floating Catacombs. :3
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rubyrender
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Post by rubyrender on Jul 11, 2015 8:31:53 GMT -6
•Dungeon •Zen Garden •Torture Chamber •Chapel •Mirium's Room •Graveyard •Familiar Stable •Morgue •Kitchen •Castle Grounds w/ crystal sculptures •Master Bedroom •Clock Tower •Alchemy Lab •Dining Hall •Trophy Room w/ displays of defeated bosses And of course: •Hell/Demon Realm accessible through stained glass also being the retro style level. EDIT: I also imagine a circular stair tower that spins to keep you centered as you climb. Being 2.5D I'm not sure that would be so hard. Also, the aforementioned crystal sculpture idea can be old alchemists now being Gebel's trophy art. Adding to it from what I have read from the posts after this one, many peeps have thought a theatre room would be good as well. Personally, it would be pretty cool to house an easter egg or two from one of IGA's previous games or any of Inti's games, though as a full on area, I'm not so sure it'll hold up. HOWEVER, there could be an entertainment lounge or a sort of Den that could lead to the theatre room. Also some good ideas: - Boiler Room
- Swamplands outside of the castle
- A retro room mirroring the final boss room from SotN
- Test Subject Area besides the Alchemy Lab
- Caverns that were excavated below the castle
- Wine cellar
- Exotic pet room, where the more perfected subjects and more ferocious and unaltered beasts roam the halls
- Sacrificial Chambers
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Watermelon Overlord
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Post by H on Jul 12, 2015 11:16:25 GMT -6
Not sure if anyone mentioned the concept art yet. But here's an extremely simplified version how I think the castle may be: This was just what I've thought up of when looking at the picture on a daily basis (it's my desktop wallpaper). We could begin in the relatively miniature building in front of the main castle, and there could be an underwater passageway into the main castle. I'd picture it as it being elegant and beautiful, kinda like an aquarium for whenever Miriam awakes and makes her way into the main castle. Although maybe that smaller building is not supposed to be anything at all besides a lookout tower (or could be scrapped altogether). For the towers in the background, it could be that that's where the ritual takes place/the place that's holding the castle together in our realm. To enter it I can picture us having to collect all kinds of key items hidden throughout the castle before confronting Gebel to have access to those towers. Or maybe we can access and explore those towers beforehand, but we don't find anything of use until confronting Gebel. Maybe Gebel has a portal in his room that connects to a hidden room in one of those towers that grants us further exploration. I also thought how beautiful the castle looks in the reflection. It could be that we get access to a power that lets us enter the "other world" and end up entering the "reflection" of the castle? The moon looks pretty important too, so possibly to enter the reflection, we have to do something about the moon (or the night changes phases as we beat more bosses, similar to Bloodborne). Until the moon turns a certain colour, we can't access the reflected castle. Thoughts? This is all just from my mind and by looking at the concept art (which may not be used at all), but it's fun to think about. (Ignore the "Map Theory" thing on the map thing I made. Should've renamed it to "Map Idea" before uploading it).
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Post by ghaleon on Jul 12, 2015 12:49:56 GMT -6
Given that 'the' castle was supposedly made FOR Miriam, I think it's kinda unlikely that Miriam's got some tiny castle on an island that is hers while gebel's is the main one.
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Post by H on Jul 12, 2015 13:35:20 GMT -6
That is true. It could possibly be a healing facility or temporary "hotel/holding" area until Miriam awakes? Also if you look at the reflection area, that building could be a bit bigger than we think.
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 12, 2015 17:28:57 GMT -6
Let's focus some discussion on layout..pros and cons.
I think it's important to have the locations occupy a lot of space, not just be a bunch of rooms tightly placed together. I love how much areas in SOTN felt very open, like the chapel. A giant room where you are climbing a huge stair case higher and higher and then you make your way into bell rooms. It's not claustrophobic in design, it's spread out in fun ways. You enjoy moving around
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Jul 13, 2015 1:11:53 GMT -6
maybe the little castle is an area thats accessed via a demonic boat and you need to have the right payment to get there
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ChucklesTheJester
Ancient Legion
[TI0] How many nuns would a nunchuck chuck if a nunchuck could chuck nuns?
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Post by ChucklesTheJester on Jul 13, 2015 5:53:59 GMT -6
maybe the little castle is an area thats accessed via a demonic boat and you need to have the right payment to get there Or an upgrade that lets you swim through/walk on the water. It could be very dangerous water. In fact, there could be a boss monster in the water. Like that one from Dawn of Sorrow. Rahab, I think.
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Post by rosevelika on Jul 13, 2015 6:32:04 GMT -6
Honestly as long as it doesn't start to feel too same-y and doesn't just extend itself past the point it should for the sake of being big i will be perfectly fine with the castle we get. Though i agree with the last post on page 1, more background elements would be cool tiny little things to notice in this game.
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 18, 2015 12:27:18 GMT -6
Posted this in another thread figured it was relevant here also
Regarding bosses. Please don't place every boss at the very end of every new area. Part of what made SOTN great was it didn't feel so gamey in that sense. It didn't feel Stagey, sometimes a boss was placed somewhere near the end of a new area but a lot of times it was somewhere near by, it makes it feel more believable. It's a castle not a staged based game
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 18, 2015 21:58:48 GMT -6
Posted this in another thread figured it was relevant here also Regarding bosses. Please don't place every boss at the very end of every new area. Part of what made SOTN great was it didn't feel so gamey in that sense. It didn't feel Stagey, sometimes a boss was placed somewhere near the end of a new area but a lot of times it was somewhere near by, it makes it feel more believable. It's a castle not a staged based game There were also quite a few instances in both Sorrow games (and only once in Order of Ecclesia) where a Boss-fight occurs before exploring the rest of an area. I'm sure that the development team working on Bloodstained has this in mind, too. Come to think of it, other than possibly the area that the secret IGA boss can be found in, I'd like to explore "optional" areas of the Castle too. (For example, my Floating Catacombs area of the Inverted Castle in SotN wasn't exactly necessary to explore for advancing the plot, nor did it have Items that were truly crucial for further exploration of the Castle) Maybe these areas within Gebel's Castle could contain Items/Relics crucial only to the exploration of other similar "optional" areas (or are just plain fun to use).
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Watermelon Overlord
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Post by H on Jul 19, 2015 9:58:31 GMT -6
Speaking of boss placement, it'd be cool if we can see some bosses outside of their actual rooms. An example from another game: In Metroid Prime 2, we get to see Dark Samus fiddling around with some phazon near the beginning of the game, but we don't actually get to fight it until way later. Even then, it was not DS's "boss room", but we just happen to meet up with it there and duke it out a bit.
A simple idea that could be used for this game is we meet up with a lesser-demon, it steals a book or gemstone/crafting material and runs away. We meet up with it later, witnessing it's transformation into something much more monstrous. Maybe it could even be a fully-powered demon just relaxing at the dining hall, and it mocks us as he/she/it calls upon their minions to attack us and walks away to hide out in their actual chamber. Something like that can make the castle feel much more alive, and it would make the castle feel different knowing we took out an actual entity that was using the castle's rooms. (Something that bothered me was that there were these beautiful areas of the castle in CV, but there seemed to be no one that used them since it's mostly just monsters wandering mindlessly about.)
Oh! Another idea. There could be a "prison" area where a boss takes us to after it defeats us. Something like "The End" from MGS3 or the sack people from Bloodborne.
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Post by qaantar on Jul 20, 2015 12:03:22 GMT -6
Hooray! I used the GATEWAY to find this thread before posting a new thread.....
So, the Castlevania games often had a Clock Tower or something similar. I see a couple of people mentioned it already. To me, this setting was one of the more iconic locations (usually with great music, too).
I wanted to ask -- would you like to see a clock tower in this game? Or would you prefer something different?
Clock towers usually meant vertical exploration -- if no clock tower, what could Bloodstained use for vertical exploration instead? Some other type of tower? A well or cistern?
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Nezuto
Master Alchemist
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Post by Nezuto on Jul 20, 2015 12:43:59 GMT -6
Hooray! I used the GATEWAY to find this thread before posting a new thread..... So, the Castlevania games often had a Clock Tower or something similar. I see a couple of people mentioned it already. To me, this setting was one of the more iconic locations (usually with great music, too). I wanted to ask -- would you like to see a clock tower in this game? Or would you prefer something different? Clock towers usually meant vertical exploration -- if no clock tower, what could Bloodstained use for vertical exploration instead? Some other type of tower? A well or cistern? Maybe some type of spire that represents the various progressions of the curse? Or maybe something that could reflect upon Dante's Inferno, what with the various circles of hell...but each circle is it's own wide area layout, within reason.
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
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[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Jul 20, 2015 14:25:29 GMT -6
Hooray! I used the GATEWAY to find this thread before posting a new thread..... So, the Castlevania games often had a Clock Tower or something similar. I see a couple of people mentioned it already. To me, this setting was one of the more iconic locations (usually with great music, too). I wanted to ask -- would you like to see a clock tower in this game? Or would you prefer something different? Clock towers usually meant vertical exploration -- if no clock tower, what could Bloodstained use for vertical exploration instead? Some other type of tower? A well or cistern? Maybe some type of spire that represents the various progressions of the curse? Or maybe something that could reflect upon Dante's Inferno, what with the various circles of hell...but each circle is it's own wide area layout, within reason. How about a Bell Tower, too? I've seen some really tall ones before.
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Nezuto
Master Alchemist
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Post by Nezuto on Jul 20, 2015 16:24:32 GMT -6
If we had a Bell Tower, that would work pretty well. Also, since Towers usually have gargoyles, a reference to Firebrand would be neat to have, also.
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