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Post by threadbare on Jul 2, 2016 15:28:00 GMT -6
I've played through the demo multiple times now. After the whole Mighty No 9 debacle I was afraid Bloodstained also wouldn't "feel" like a Castlevania, but the demo put all these fears to rest! Everything down to minutia brought me back to SotN or one of the other portable games Iga did! I'm talking about the jump arc, slide lenght, attack duration, the ol' hop n' slash tech to attack faster, even how long Mirian crouches on the floor after falling from a long distance! It's uncanny how all of that managed to translate well into this 2.5D format! I also wish Iga was going with pixel art, but after seeing this cell shaded art in motion I'm sold! Another thing I really liked was the use of the R-stick for some skills, allowing us to cast some spells in 360 degrees. I'm just a bit confused why some abilites can't use that. Why can't I use Cerulean Splash with that for example? I also think the game was way too easy, but I get demos are usually easier than the final product for reviewing purposes. I just hope Iga lean more towards Order of Ecclesia when setting the final difficulty level rather than Symphony, which was a great game, but not challenging enough. The music was great, but that was a given with Michiru Yamane and Yamada at the helm. Maybe just lower the sound of Miriam's footsteps though, they were a bit too loud. As for the boss' giant boobs... eh, I don't mind it really, I don't see what the fuss is all about. ![:P](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 2, 2016 21:43:21 GMT -6
Another small suggestion. Miriam should have a subtle breathing animation in the menu rather than being frozen. ![](http://i.imgur.com/i43jXtu.png)
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Post by JeffCross on Jul 2, 2016 22:54:57 GMT -6
Another small suggestion. Miriam should have a subtle breathing animation in the menu rather than being frozen. ![](http://i.imgur.com/i43jXtu.png) I agree if she is going to be 3D, she should look alive on the pause menu... it should show her: breathing, when she is hurt, when she is poisoned etc
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Post by asterra on Jul 3, 2016 0:10:31 GMT -6
Besides, wasn't one of the biggest complaints about Mighty No. 9 that everything was very lifeless and emotionless? Animating Miriam more would be the exact opposite of that. I think that was the complaint, but that it stemmed specifically from the fact that the (voiced) dialogue carried emotions which the game's visuals manifestly failed to reflect. That failure seems to have been largely owing to a terribly misguided stylistic direction, perhaps stimulated by dev timeline pressures and laziness. On the topic of Miriam's reaction to the boss enemy, I've tried visualizing what kind of reaction would work in this case, and nothing does. Her default face expresses calculated seriousness. Even so much as a slight squint of the eyes would imply things about her persona which simply do not exist without the expression. If IGA or whoever's in charge of this aspect of the game doesn't want any such thing implied, then their current approach was the correct one. Maybe it's easier to guess that the non-expression could be thanks more to the fact that the entire demo effort is effectively a work-in-progress. Personally, I feel that the demo was specifically coordinated to be as fully representative of the final product as Inti Creates could make it, and that every other task was put on hold to help make it happen, so that when the game finally ships, there would be zero chance of hindsight remorse, the way there very definitely was with MN9.
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Post by crocodile on Jul 3, 2016 0:50:21 GMT -6
You can be a serious character and still emote and have expressions. They aren't mutually exclusive. This is an issue, especially among Japanese media that I've noticed, were writers think that to give their characters gravitas and weight they have to strip emotions and expressions from them. It's leads to boring, over-stoic characters devoid of any personality. If possible, I would like to avoid that fate for Miriam.
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Post by Elfina Ashfield on Jul 3, 2016 3:20:41 GMT -6
Another small suggestion. Miriam should have a subtle breathing animation in the menu rather than being frozen. ![](http://i.imgur.com/i43jXtu.png) I agree if she is going to be 3D, she should look alive on the pause menu... it should shoe her: breathing, when she is hurt, when she is poisoned etc Good idea! Waifu Inspector CONFIRMED...
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Post by Hertzila on Jul 3, 2016 4:51:51 GMT -6
Besides, wasn't one of the biggest complaints about Mighty No. 9 that everything was very lifeless and emotionless? Animating Miriam more would be the exact opposite of that. I think that was the complaint, but that it stemmed specifically from the fact that the (voiced) dialogue carried emotions which the game's visuals manifestly failed to reflect. That failure seems to have been largely owing to a terribly misguided stylistic direction, perhaps stimulated by dev timeline pressures and laziness. On the topic of Miriam's reaction to the boss enemy, I've tried visualizing what kind of reaction would work in this case, and nothing does. Her default face expresses calculated seriousness. Even so much as a slight squint of the eyes would imply things about her persona which simply do not exist without the expression. If IGA or whoever's in charge of this aspect of the game doesn't want any such thing implied, then their current approach was the correct one. Maybe it's easier to guess that the non-expression could be thanks more to the fact that the entire demo effort is effectively a work-in-progress. Personally, I feel that the demo was specifically coordinated to be as fully representative of the final product as Inti Creates could make it, and that every other task was put on hold to help make it happen, so that when the game finally ships, there would be zero chance of hindsight remorse, the way there very definitely was with MN9. I can see where you are coming from, but I disagree that it would be out of place for Miriam to show emotions. The Kickstarter background for Miriam would indicate that she has a lot of emotional range and does express those emotions, she just doesn't like talking much. So more expressions (both facial expressions and body language) but not much speaking or voicing would be in-character for her persona, I think. My biggest reason for believing she's supposed to show emotions on her face and with her body language (and that it was simply cut because this is a demo of a WIP game) is the big change in camera angle right before the boss. Right now it just zooms onto Miriam's face of indifference and idle animation and it looks very odd with the complete non-reaction Miriam has, whereas her bracing for impact and glaring at the boss as it jumps up from the sea would give the change in camera angle a purpose and potentially make the scene look cool.
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Post by jman5000 on Jul 3, 2016 6:34:35 GMT -6
Thanks for the demo! I've played through it a couple of times and it definitely got me excited for the final game! I have a couple of comments and things I'm hoping will be fixed in the final game: - support for 1440p resolution - unlocked framerates (seems to be capped at 60 fps at the moment) - more balanced gameplay? Some of the monsters throughout the level seems to be too easy, while the final boss in the level is really hard in comparison. - don't know what the scope of the final game is (how many levels/bosses/etc.) but I'm hoping there will be a feeling of progression, throughout the game, so that every level doesn't feel the same - hopefully also a great variety in types of monsters, that you'll face throughout the game - monster graphics/textures more polished? Some of the monsters seems to have been drawn quickly and doesn't look as polished and/or fleshed out as the main character and the final boss. Here's hoping that every monster and character in the game will receive the same amount of polish and care, so they all end up looking equally awesome! - more variety in the music? Different moods for different scenes of the level? Better samples and/or live recordings? Some of the music seems to be a little too much MIDI / cheap synth-sounding imho. I'm aware that this is an early version of the game and that the final version will probably be really awesome! There's also a lot of things I love about the demo, so all of the above is just meant as constructive criticism based on my experience with the demo. ![:)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Looking forward to playing the beta and the final game once it comes out!
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Post by L. M. on Jul 3, 2016 13:47:02 GMT -6
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Post by Motoko on Jul 5, 2016 11:53:21 GMT -6
Another small suggestion. Miriam should have a subtle breathing animation in the menu rather than being frozen. ![](http://i.imgur.com/i43jXtu.png) I agree if she is going to be 3D, she should look alive on the pause menu... it should show her: breathing, when she is hurt, when she is poisoned etc This ^^^
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Post by artistmeli on Jul 6, 2016 12:03:05 GMT -6
The demo is looking good! Thanks so much for letting us backers play it! Here is my personal feedback:
Biggest con so far: I felt the movement was quite unresponsive. The character movements lagged enough behind button presses that I was definitely feeling some frustration by the time I finished the demo. I found myself pressing the buttons *really hard* hoping to get better responses (which of course only helped me to jump higher, but still slowly). I'm not sure if this is due to animation frame rate or a deliberate choice to make her slower at the beginning and then become more responsive as you level up/get better equipment.
The only other criticism I have is that the extreme shiny-ness of some of the enemies make the 3D models look lower quality than they are, but that's a pretty minor complaint.
Being so early in development I understand that pretty much everything is subject to change, and I'm very excited to see the game as it progresses!
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 6, 2016 18:45:21 GMT -6
Biggest con so far: I felt the movement was quite unresponsive. The character movements lagged enough behind button presses that I was definitely feeling some frustration by the time I finished the demo. I found myself pressing the buttons *really hard* hoping to get better responses (which of course only helped me to jump higher, but still slowly). I'm not sure if this is due to animation frame rate or a deliberate choice to make her slower at the beginning and then become more responsive as you level up/get better equipment.Hey! Thanks for the feedback. This piece stood out to me, and I wanted to speak on it a bit... To me, this really sounds like input delay. I'm thinking something hardware-related is slowing the speed at which the game is reading your inputs. This could be: a controller not optimized for PC or functioning through a converter, your computer's monitor, the PC itself, or even possibly a combination of these 3 things. I'm a fighting game player myself, so I'm sensitive to this sort of thing, and what you're describing sounds exactly like input delay caused by (usually) something outside of the software. I would look at trying a comparable side scrolling game under similar circumstances on your PC and see how that compares, and also trying to run the game in 720p resolution so that it may function better. I'm now wondering if a lot of the slowness/responsiveness feedback I've seen is actually the same sort of issue...
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Post by genemag on Jul 7, 2016 1:05:38 GMT -6
Biggest con so far: I felt the movement was quite unresponsive. The character movements lagged enough behind button presses that I was definitely feeling some frustration by the time I finished the demo. I found myself pressing the buttons *really hard* hoping to get better responses (which of course only helped me to jump higher, but still slowly). I'm not sure if this is due to animation frame rate or a deliberate choice to make her slower at the beginning and then become more responsive as you level up/get better equipment.Hey! Thanks for the feedback. This piece stood out to me, and I wanted to speak on it a bit... To me, this really sounds like input delay. I'm thinking something hardware-related is slowing the speed at which the game is reading your inputs. This could be: a controller not optimized for PC or functioning through a converter, your computer's monitor, the PC itself, or even possibly a combination of these 3 things. I'm a fighting game player myself, so I'm sensitive to this sort of thing, and what you're describing sounds exactly like input delay caused by (usually) something outside of the software. I would look at trying a comparable side scrolling game under similar circumstances on your PC and see how that compares, and also trying to run the game in 720p resolution so that it may function better. I'm now wondering if a lot of the slowness/responsiveness feedback I've seen is actually the same sort of issue... I'm 100% sure it's input drops and not hardware performance. I tried the demo on my RoG G752 laptop with g-sync enabled. I rarely got any frame skips and there's definitely dropped input. The input is dropped when you press actions right before the recovery animations finish. During that time, inputs are still ignored; attacks/jumps only register when you're in idle animation. If you look at action/fighting games, there's a certain timing window where you can input an attack while an animation is happening, then the attack executes right after the previous animation finishes. The Bloodstainded demo had none of that. I had zero input buffering. I'm making a demo to show the difference with and without input buffering for platformers. Hopefully in a few days I can have it up before the feedback gets sent to the dev team.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 7, 2016 6:43:40 GMT -6
genemag I know what you mean, though it doesn't sound quite like what he was describing as a detriment to his casual gameplay and finishing the demo (slower response and movement rather than dropped inputs). I don't think that an input buffer is per se that much of a necessity or so much an integral part of just playing the game, as it had sounded from his post. It sounded like a constant rather than canceling into other actions. He could have been experiencing that for sure, but I wouldn't say it's 100% since input lag is definitely a thing on many non-gaming monitors or TVs, up to 60 ms or so. Add to that say an iffy wireless controller/converter and a PC that might be struggling, and the game would definitely not feel right compared to say, standard DSvania or SotN.
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Post by endarion on Jul 7, 2016 9:49:29 GMT -6
this is really a minor thing, but i personaly think that equipping the kung-fu shoes makes Miriam feets looks way too big, while i love the idea of kick weapons and i hope there will be End-game weapons of this type, it looks kind of bad like this
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Post by nico21x on Jul 7, 2016 10:10:57 GMT -6
this is really a minor thing, but i personaly think that equipping the kung-fu shoes makes Miriam feets looks way too big, while i love the idea of kick weapons and i hope there will be End-game weapons of this type, it looks kind of bad like this I noticed that too! A very minor detail but it did look pretty bad in my opinion =/
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Post by crocodile on Jul 7, 2016 10:30:39 GMT -6
I don't think I agree that Miriam's feet are oversized once she dons the Kung-Fu shoes. However, a not uncommon feature in 3D fighting games is for extremities and end points (like hands and feet) to be exaggerated (Street Fighter IV and V are big examples of that). That makes moves easier to see and read. That may be something that is in play here. (This conversation also feels a tiny bit weird given what this could mean and sound like in certain real life contexts but I know nobody here actually means it like that ![:P](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) ).
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Post by endarion on Jul 7, 2016 10:43:23 GMT -6
I don't think I agree that Miriam's feet are oversized once she dons the Kung-Fu shoes. However, a not uncommon feature in 3D fighting games is for extremities and end points (like hands and feet) to be exaggerated (Street Fighter IV and V are big examples of that). That makes moves easier to see and read. That may be something that is in play here. (This conversation also feels a tiny bit weird given what this could mean and sound like in certain real life contexts but I know nobody here actually means it like that ![:P](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) ). but you can clearly see a size difference betwen her feets with her normal attire and the kung fu shoes, and they looks specialy bad in the boss intro cinematic, they almost seems clown-shoes..or sora shoes from kingdom hearts
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Post by asterra on Jul 7, 2016 22:21:24 GMT -6
Biggest con so far: I felt the movement was quite unresponsive. The character movements lagged enough behind button presses that I was definitely feeling some frustration by the time I finished the demo. I found myself pressing the buttons *really hard* hoping to get better responses (which of course only helped me to jump higher, but still slowly). I'm not sure if this is due to animation frame rate or a deliberate choice to make her slower at the beginning and then become more responsive as you level up/get better equipment.I'll tackle this one. Miriam has a startup animation to her jumps. I've studied it. Two frames of crouch-into-jump. She only actually gains altitude on the third frame. Jumps in Castlevania titles just gain altitude instantly, Super Mario Bros. style. Including SotN. So if one has recently played one of those, I can see how the subtle delay could be picked up on. Unfortunately, I have serious doubts that there are any plans in place to offer a way of circumventing this animation, item or otherwise. In any event, the game itself is not responsible for adding an excessive amount of latency, if that were ever considered a possibility. I went ahead and checked:
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Post by Darkenroll on Jul 9, 2016 8:12:15 GMT -6
Just played the demo and it feels very polished and plays smoothly! Here's just a few things I thought of while playing 1. Using an xbox360 controller the analog stick feels a little too responsive in menus. 2. The screen exits are sometimes hard to spot, I had to load up the map periodically to see if I missed one. 3. The shard system - it might just be because it's a demo, but the powers seemed to manifest randomly after killing certain enemies(but not all?) a certain number of times? Or randomly? I love these detailed kind of growth mechanics so I was hoping it would be a bit more fleshed out in the demo. 4. This is pure opinion, but when you first see the demo boss through the hull my first impression was that she looked out of place. Like the colors were too bright and she just seemed less detailed than everything else around her, almost a little cartoony.
That said, I think they've nailed it on style and presentation, I'm looking forward to seeing how it develops.
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