Should Shields return? (Submitted)

See the issue here is that you are constructing scenarios in which you NEED shields rather making shields something you want to use over other weapons under normal gameplay scenarios. "Unavoidable" attacks are just not something you see in this genre and IGA AND Inticreates has already gone on record that you will see no such thing for any boss encounter so I'm not sure why I'd expect that for normal enemy encounters. Unavoidable attacks aren't hard, they are just cheap. Combat in -vania games is not devoid of strategy and isn't about just YOLO-SWAGGING enemies to death. I mean yes, SOTN was too easy but you can't roll your face on your DS and expect to beat OoE. You've got to be quick on your fingers and quick with your thinking. You're not adding complexity (oh I'll just block with this shield because I HAVE too - that's just a binary choice) you are just breaking up pacing.

In my example I have a point of reference for "unavoidable" attacks. For the "A shield that makes an object to hide behind for big attacks", what if that was already apart of the boss fight? The ceiling drops boulders you have to dodge, they stay on screen until the boss unleashes an "unavoidable" attack, you hide behind the boulder taking no damage, they are then destroyed. My shield idea could provide cover if you aren't near the environment you want to be near. Using the boulder example again, the bosses head (weak point) is too high off the ground to hit normally, but the boulders are used as stepping stones to jump on, until you are high enough to attack the weak spot. Puzzle boss activated. The shield again would be useful for giving you a boost without negating damage, in fact it would aid you in being aggressive.

I don't need to make reasons for shields to be in the game, I am letting shields do work that might already be there. The problem is if I am "constructing scenarios" for a shield to be useful, it is only because I don't know what Iga has planned for us. But seeing as how this is supposed to be his biggest game yet, I would find it rather monotonous if all the bosses are just meat bags you have to attack while simply dodging 1-hit kill attacks from the boss. I've played enough games where dodge is the only mechanic, they bore me now.

But if it is all down to people "making shields something you want to use over other weapons under normal gameplay scenarios." I don't see how preventing you from taking damage is something people would actively avoid. Another question is why would people want to use a shield "over" a weapon? It would probably be better to use a weapon AND  shield in conjunction. She does have two hands last I checked.

Astaroth I love combat shield mechanics ^_^ I am just trying to balance the conversation. In most of the games I play with shields I try using them as a weapon. Mostly Darksouls games are great for this. I always like heavy armour defensive style characters. I hope we get some full plate for Miriam with a spike shield and she just waltzes through a crowd of enemies, spraying enemy blood as she goes!

A) Then what about adding more slots for offensive options? Diablo II had a weapon swap button, you could theoretically hold 4 weapons at once. My question is how many offensive options do we need compared to defensive options? So far it looks pretty balanced, but again we don't know details yet. Spells might only be offensive, useable items might only be defensive, right and left hand slots might only be offensive, we don't know yet. And yes, historically shields haven't been as useful as say the Crissaegrim. But again, we are not looking for optimal play style here. If it were just about doing things the best way, then we could all beat SotN in under 10 minutes. (Being literal about the 10 mins) I also recall things like the Axe Armor being not so mobile. . . Not sure why that's in the game at all if Iga wants us to dodge everything. I am a fan of the Darksouls series. They have nice shield mechanics, I also enjoyed using shield in SotN without the Shield Rod. Crazy huh? But then again I also liked to use sub-items for damage.

B) You don't have to tell me anything about me thinking dodging is boring. It is just my opinion. To me it's like QTEs. I am FORCED to play that way. The same argument you made about shields. We just disagree on this point. I want to be able to dodge, and block, and parry, and take a hit to the face. Having many options is better to me than forcing me to play only one way. Just a preference. Since this is going to have an RPG aspect to it, I was hoping I could play in a style different from the "norm".

I enjoy both play styles: evading and blocking. I really enjoyed LoI and CoD as they have a back flip to get out of the way. That should be included in the form of a back dash. Either a back flip or a back hand spring. I also really enjoy games that let you use your shield to stagger an enemy. They basically attack your shield and bounce off resulting in a stagger. This window allows you to counter attack. Really strong attacks can cause you to stagger instead taking away your chance for a counter attack. You have to learn what attacks you can block and which ones you need to evade.

As I think about Miriam using shields, it occurs to me that her wielding a huge heavy greatshield seems out of place. So, I think it would fit better if her shield was generated magically. It would materialize and become corporeal while in use and then disappear when you let off the block button. It could even be just one special "crystal" shield that she has at all times and you upgrade its abilities as you progress through the game. At first you are only able to block basic attacks and projectiles (appearance like a kite shield). Then you get an upgrade to block heavy attacks (physical appearance then takes on that of a greatshield). There could also be upgrades that allow magic absorption when you block magic attacks (to refill your MP a la Lament's purple attacks). Then finally you get an upgrade to add crystal spikes to the shield. This one lets you move with the shield out. You can then run into enemies to damage them while you move a la SotN shield rod (but nowhere near as damaging).

Just brainstorming....

I'm with croc on this one.

However, if y'all are hellbent on shields, how 'bout a proper implementation?

Three types of shields: light, medium and heavy, with each type having a set of drawbacks and the general one being movement restriction while the shield is up.
-Light shields: Decrease movement speed by 10%, get knocked back while blocking medium attacks and strong knockback from heavy attacks.
-Medium shields: Decrease movement speed by 30%, get knocked back while blocking against heavy attacks.
-Heavy shields: Decrease movement speed by 70%, can't be used mid-air.

The amount of damage a shield can block is determined by a shields individual defense stat. Needless to say, heavy shields would have the highest one compared to other types of the same rank.
If attack value passes the defense value of the shield, then the shield mitigates the damage while adding a strong knockback for medium and normal knockback for heavy. The light shield should be unable to mitigate any damage if the defense value is passed.
Classification of enemy attacks as light, medium or heavy could be tied to their damage potential against a shield. With this an attack under 50% of the shield defense would be considered light, 50-75% medium and over 75% heavy.

Attacking with a weapon cancels blocking, unless specific weapon types are used (spears, short spears, etc.).

Additionally, the shield positioning should be fixed, so that mid-air blocking isn't rendered useless, while offering a protection that covers everything but the back.

As for additional variety among the shields within type, you can go crazy with those.
You can have light shields that deploy magic bombs after getting hit by medium or heavy attacks or heavy shields that root you in place even while taking damage (so you can tank boss beams) or something completely different.

I personally don't have an interest with shields being in the game. I feel, with the character not being combat adept (more forced into combat) that a shield wouldn't serve a purpose outside what SotN did, which blocked projectiles.

I feel that something else should come into play. Something Magic or Crystal derived. Barriers. Protect auras. Bracers (instead of blocking and striking, she could parry with armored arm or with weapon)...

But for the sake of conversation what about a kind of happy medium, all shields are non-physical projections she can acquire (playing off the magic/crystal aspect)? I feel that, in context it would make more sense for a non warrior to have a shield like object instead of a shield as well as show her command of magic or magical items. Unless Miriam is a warrior but her abilities were impacted by her amnesia... But that might be too much Vagrant Story for an Igavania.