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Post by alialkhiro on Jul 14, 2015 9:21:14 GMT -6
Dracula's castle had one of the weakest security systems ever!
I played SotN a while back and I can't remember a single decent trap. Most of the enemies did nothing until you got in their range and few did nothing even then. At no point did any elite enemy intercept, ambush or chase the intruder. The bosses sat in their rooms and waited for their slayer to drop by.
I mean a guy is in your base killing your dudes and stealing your stuff and you do nothing about it?
I hope Gebel has better security in his castle.
It would be nice to see more elaborate traps in Bloodstained.
I would also love to see better enemy behavior.
Of course I don't expect every enemy to be intelligent; I expect a fair amount of living missiles, stationary guards and reactive monsters. But I would also like to see enemies that would chase you from one room to the other. I would love to see enemies moving in a formation to intercept you and attack in a coordinated manner. I also think that invisible enemies or enemies hiding in the background to ambush you would be an interesting idea.
As for the bosses, it would be nice if you weren't forced to fight all the bosses in their specified rooms but could run away from some of them or lead them to more advantageous areas. For example, you are faced with a boss that uses electricity in a water flooded chamber which would make the fight very difficult, you can fight him there for some extra reward or achievement or dodge his attacks and lead him to a dry room. You can even lead him to the garden where a lightning rod would absorb most of his attacks making the fight even easier. The bosses would change their fighting style depending on the area and it would be fun to think where it is best to face a certain boss as well as how to fight him there.
Of course I would also like some optional bosses who are stuck in their rooms, but some variation is always nice.
What kind of enemy behavior would you like to see in Bloodstained?
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Post by nekurors on Jul 14, 2015 13:36:43 GMT -6
What about if the castle has a team of elite security guard, who appears randomly (a certain chance to) at every(or some dozens of specific) room you enter, so you will never know when a guard will really try to stop your advancement, and when they really appears the exits should close as if were a boss fight.
If they really want to make it interesting, they could make the guard appears in a cool way, as jumping and breaking in from a simple window, breaking a wall/floor/top. So they are supposed to get the player unware.
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Post by lod7 on Jul 14, 2015 13:52:00 GMT -6
In regards to the bosses and mini boss ideas, they all sound good from an immersion perspective, really shows that the castle is inhabited by creatures that are there and not locked in a tiny room waiting for you but are actually hunting you down and it is up to you to use the castle to your advantage.
From a game design perspective I think this Idea would be incredibly hard to pull off and may not even produce a comparable amount of positive reaction from the community. Doing this for a select few bosses could also be detrimental to the game because if one boss is executed really well with this idea then the community may expect more from the game as it progresses. I think a simple change would be to add a major boss to four quadrants of the castle that can attack you in specific rooms, some rooms giving you an advantage or disadvantage to that boss. This might irk some speed runners for the RNG but for a regular gamer this can greatly immerse you in the game.
As for regular enemies follwing you from one or two rooms sounds interesting. But having them perform complex formations to try and flank you seem too much to ask for in a 2D platformer. Personally I would not want any of these "regular" mob ideas to make it in the game because I am imagining the level 1 cap hard mode in order of ecclesia and going into the Ruvas forest level, and imagining enemies following you between screens.
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Post by H on Jul 14, 2015 14:16:19 GMT -6
I remember something like that in Metroid: Fusion. The SA-X would chase you from room to room until you successfully were able to hide. I remember my first encounter with it was terrifying. If they do implement something like that, they would have to put a convenient save point and also get rid of the smaller enemies in those specific rooms temporarily. I personally liked that feature from Metroid: Fusion. Changed up game pace by a lot, and by the end of the game you actually felt stronger and had a way to measure it (against the SA-X's own power).
I think you mean something a bit less powerful though? Maybe a squadron of demons who break up game pace, provide a challenge, and also keep us on our toes?
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Post by LuckPercentSRL on Jul 14, 2015 14:20:00 GMT -6
Inb4 suddenly Gebel hires Engineers from Team Fortress 2 from the future and then suddenly Miriam has to fight against level three sentries all over the castle.
FAN FICTION TIME!!!!!!
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Post by Motoko on Jul 14, 2015 14:45:16 GMT -6
I think in the case of an IGAvania game, something like this wouldn't fit too well. IGA's games move at a certain pace and if something like what OP is suggesting made it into the game, it might upset the balance.
That being said, I'm opened minded about new concepts- so if this could be done and keep the flow & balance, I'm all for it. (•ω•)
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thrashinuva
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Post by thrashinuva on Jul 14, 2015 15:53:09 GMT -6
I actually wouldn't mind a flintlock skeleton infantry squad defending an entrance to a room.
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Post by helluminatus on Jul 14, 2015 15:54:32 GMT -6
You're approaching this with a bit too much of a "this would be cool" mindset rather than one of sound game design. Stupid enemies are fundamental to the genre and allow the player to play the game at their own speed, from dungeon crawls to speed runs. After all, the game's main focus is exploration rather than depth of combat, hence the lack of combos and the like. Enemies in this genre are meant to be obstacles rather than necessary encounters, and how those obstacles are approached is at the discretion of the player, which is really one of the stronger points in these games. As for the bosses, the example you used was a bit gimmicky and binary. If the harder version is actually interesting, you're losing a lot of strong design by giving the player the power to just ignore the fight's gimmick. If the more difficult mechanic is not interesting, you're just wasting the player's time making them go to another room to avoid something that wasn't worth having in anyway. If anything, more fights like the crab in Order of Ecclesia would be great; but multiple room-spanning fights just don't seem like a strong choice.
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Post by kdfukuyama on Jul 14, 2015 18:20:21 GMT -6
Having some special squads or minibosses with a more refined AI would be nice.
But the entire game been like that? No, thank you. It will become really stressful and annoying which is not the point for this game, in my opinion.
I only played SoTN (I don't have portables), so I don't know if other Igavanias focus on combat, but SoTN definitely has a good balance between exploration and action and I hope that Bloodstained will be the same.
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Post by wiggychiggy on Jul 14, 2015 19:11:48 GMT -6
WIth previous Castlevania games I have found that clever enemy placement has provided the most challenge. Medusa heads never needed complex enemy behaviors--all they needed was to move in that same, similar sine wave pattern. If they caught you in the top of a jump over a spike pit? It was devastating. With the largest castle ever promised to us I think the level designers can work with the enemy programmers to really deliver a complex and challenging castle that satisfies everyone.
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Post by helluminatus on Jul 14, 2015 19:19:58 GMT -6
I only played SoTN (I don't have portables), so I don't know if other Igavanias focus on combat If you're curious, though the DS titles did integrate interesting new offensive options, there was never a real combat focus. In fact, Order of Ecclesia had no material weapons, only glyphs that were... like a spell... kind of? Long story short, basic attacks cost MP, meaning that if the player would be unable to attack for a while while waiting for their MP to restore if they attacked carelessly. |
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Post by zero on Jul 14, 2015 20:47:22 GMT -6
Maybe implement this system in a harder mode after the game is beaten? That way casual gamers get their fill and there's something extra for those that want more.
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Post by Ciel on Jul 14, 2015 20:53:28 GMT -6
Maybe implement this system in a harder mode after the game is beaten? That way casual gamers get their fill and there's something extra for those that want more. New Game+, Lord of the Castle mode. Make it happen. |
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Post by ghaleon on Jul 14, 2015 21:42:29 GMT -6
Just dont do this in combination with being one of those games where you are not allowed to pause, that would be a catastopocaclyptically bad combination.
That said there was this MUD I played a long ways back with a difficult boss in an area you wouldnt expect, and being a mud, running away was something of a normal game mechanic that peoplr actually use from time to time.
Anyway, once you run from this particular boss, be would remember you, but would not give chase.
Instead, some time later, minutes, hours, maybe even a day later... He would use magic to SUMMON YOU BACK TO HIM and proceed tk kill you.
Let mr tell you the surprise of a gamr monster magically summoning you at random is pretty real =p.
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Post by DragonByDegrees on Jul 14, 2015 22:01:30 GMT -6
I remember something like that in Metroid: Fusion. The SA-X would chase you from room to room until you successfully were able to hide. I remember my first encounter with it was terrifying. If they do implement something like that, they would have to put a convenient save point and also get rid of the smaller enemies in those specific rooms temporarily. I personally liked that feature from Metroid: Fusion. Changed up game pace by a lot, and by the end of the game you actually felt stronger and had a way to measure it (against the SA-X's own power). I think you mean something a bit less powerful though? Maybe a squadron of demons who break up game pace, provide a challenge, and also keep us on our toes? Ever play Resident Evil 2 or Resident Evil Nemesis? |
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 14, 2015 22:03:24 GMT -6
I remember something like that in Metroid: Fusion. The SA-X would chase you from room to room until you successfully were able to hide. I remember my first encounter with it was terrifying. If they do implement something like that, they would have to put a convenient save point and also get rid of the smaller enemies in those specific rooms temporarily. I personally liked that feature from Metroid: Fusion. Changed up game pace by a lot, and by the end of the game you actually felt stronger and had a way to measure it (against the SA-X's own power). I think you mean something a bit less powerful though? Maybe a squadron of demons who break up game pace, provide a challenge, and also keep us on our toes? Ever play Resident Evil 2 or Resident Evil Nemesis? I couldn't play Resident Evil 3: Nemesis when I was a kid, because Nemesis always scared the crap out of me.  I've beaten it now though.  |
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Post by DragonByDegrees on Jul 14, 2015 22:17:34 GMT -6
Ever play Resident Evil 2 or Resident Evil Nemesis? I couldn't play Resident Evil 3: Nemesis when I was a kid, because Nemesis always scared the crap out of me. I've beaten it now though. I still remember how I felt when he started "breaking the rules". It was wonderful and horrifying. Also, remember the scene with the helicopter? Outta nowhere! |
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 14, 2015 22:20:15 GMT -6
I couldn't play Resident Evil 3: Nemesis when I was a kid, because Nemesis always scared the crap out of me. I've beaten it now though. I still remember how I felt when he started "breaking the rules". It was wonderful and horrifying. Also, remember the scene with the helicopter? Outta nowhere! "Yay, this nightmare is finally over!" BOOM "Noooooooo!!!" |
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Shardbinder
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Post by Motoko on Jul 14, 2015 23:28:05 GMT -6
Ever play Resident Evil 2 or Resident Evil Nemesis? I couldn't play Resident Evil 3: Nemesis when I was a kid, because Nemesis always scared the crap out of me. I've beaten it now though. Dude no joke, that was some scary crap. My heart pounded SO much whenever he showed up...*shudders* -_- |
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Post by crocodile on Jul 15, 2015 0:10:35 GMT -6
Bosses should stay in their designated areas because part of building a good boss battle is incorporating the environment into the actual conflict. It influences how the boss can move and attack as well as puts limits on how you can move. Engineering strong and noteworthy battles is made easier and better if you can control for factors like that.
As for regular enemies, I do agree that most regular enemies in Igavania games could stand to have their AI improved be it more aggression or at least being more cognizant of your presence. Having them follow you around the castle seems a bit much because in Igavania games, enemy placement is part of level design.
If there was a singular, SA-X like enemy in the game you could do interesting narrative things with it but that has to be a big part of the story and up to if Iga wants to write something like that.
Regarding environmental traps and such, I'm reminded of the Training Hall from Order of Ecclesia. That was some quality platforming but without the bottomless pits Iga hates!
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