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Post by Masquerade on Feb 17, 2019 14:36:46 GMT -6
I know we have a relatively small amount of info on their development help, but given the massive leap in progress from around late 2018 to the Nintendo direct, I can only imagine the person who brought up the idea to have Wayforward (given it wasn't them) jump on the crew made one of the bigger decisions in indie gaming history. I was under the impression Wayforward's involvement was mostly exclusive to, as one of the Kickstarter updates mentioned, "bug squashing," but I couldn't have been more wrong. Anonymous biblical entity even confirmed this fact, noting that there was actually a fair amount of involvement in graphical development.
Anyone think there's a tradeoff somewhere in there? I know developers help each other but me personally wouldn't just hop on a project unless it was by monetary compensation, homage in game (like a Shantae costume or enemy similar to something in one of the games etc.) or decent press coverage leading up to the game's release. If their involvement is as heavy as I've been made to believe based on the information I've heard, I've gotta commend the dudes. Artplay and 505 certainly have made one monster of a game but they brought in a hell of a closer. Feel bad honestly for the whole Bloodstained team. They'd been keeping this whole thing waiting to reveal while they were getting slammed for months. With good reason honestly due to the updates. But nevertheless, it appears the game is right on track to be just like promised 4 years ago.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Feb 17, 2019 14:45:40 GMT -6
Do not feel bad. Constructive feedback is more than welcome, and always has been if you are a person that appreciate it.
Got the feel Wayforward and Artplay have been co-working friends for some time. Could be wrong though. I am not sure either who has done what, but overall the game seems to be more healthy. And its nice to see the progress.
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Post by hyugakojiro on Feb 17, 2019 17:54:20 GMT -6
I think this is a win-win no matter how you look at it. I'm sure the team at Way Forward are more than glad to help out seeing as the Shantae series is essentially a giant love letter to Igavanias. Hopefully they are being paid for their involvement though.
The game will be a much more polished experience thanks to their involvement that's for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 19:21:39 GMT -6
At the very least, I hope to see their logo on the box or something. WayForward was stuck making licensed games for so many years, so it's really satisfying to see their name attached to such a high profile project. I hope they get an appropriate amount of acknowledgement for this when the game's out.
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Feb 17, 2019 20:42:06 GMT -6
I think it's possible, though not certain, Wayforward is doing a lot of the work 'pro bono,' or at least not asking for especially lucrative compensation. These guys really, really love classic sidescrollers, and might have agreed to do IGA and his team some favors out of passion and affection for IGA's team. And if Bloodstained ends up being a success--a high-profile indie success, which is relatively rare, actually (the vast majority of successful Kickstarter games have been smaller affairs, most of the other big ones I can think of ended up failures), Wayforward will get a strong reputation for having rescued the project and turning it into a smash hit, which could lead to bigger things down the line.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Feb 17, 2019 20:59:47 GMT -6
I'm sure they're not working for free guys hahaha
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Post by dareka on Feb 17, 2019 21:51:21 GMT -6
Wayforward is actually my absolute favorite 2D developer.
I personally consider them flat-out superior to all 2D Japanese development houses.
Only Inti creates can touch them in terms of game design, but what they also have (that Inti doesn't) is kick ass 3D artists and mad technical skillz.
I would put Contra 4 (which was done by Wayforward) against any other Contra game out there.
A few things:
1) They're not working pro-bono. Not even nuns work pro-bono, because you have to be extremely rich to be able to do that, and they aren't (neither Wayforward nor nuns).
2) If they're working on quashing bugs, creating assets and improving shaders, they're basically bringing the game over the finish line.
3) To be fair to DiCO, they did rescue the project after Inti bailed, and brought the game close to the goal line. Also, not all of the improvement can be attributed to Wayforward's involvement, since the beta backer demo from last year had the shader's they'd been working on disabled. In other words, the game was never meant to look as bad as the beta backer demo does. On the other hand, if they helped quash the bug that was making their lighting too computationally expensive, then they helped make the game look how it was originally supposed to look.
Some thoughts:
I honestly think Wayforward could have handled this project alone from the start; if we do get a sequel, I would think 505 would hire Wayforward from the get-go next time. They bring not just technical expertise and game design know-how to the table, but an aesthetic sense that few companies can match. You really need a good art director even when your assets are out-sourced: otherwise they will suck.
Also, though some people are upset that we're getting a Switch version instead of native support for apple and linux, I'm of the opinion that the Switch version is the most important one out there. It's where the game can find a market, its best hope to turn in a profit; and if it does, then a sequel will be likely, since it'll cost waaaay less than the original to make (asset reuse).
Finally, wouldn't it be nice if the game were a huge success and Nintendo decided to hire ArtPlay + Wayforward to do a 2D Metroid? Don't think it'll ever happen (and Nintendo is not known for working well with independently minded development houses it doesn't own), but hey, I never thought Nintendo would embrace indy games, either.
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Post by RichterB on Feb 17, 2019 22:34:42 GMT -6
Any chance WayForward is doing the Classic mode? I think I heard they were interested in working on Castlevania, but never got the chance (only got to work on Contra). I know it's maybe too much to ask, but I'm hoping for Classic mode to be as good as Curse of the Moon. No need for the multiple characters/paths in this case so much as lots of cool structural design and platforming with preexisting assets. (And if Miriam's whips could attach to grapple points, I'd be over the moon!)
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Feb 17, 2019 23:43:30 GMT -6
Any chance WayForward is doing the Classic mode? I think I heard they were interested in working on Castlevania, but never got the chance (only got to work on Contra). I know it's maybe too much to ask, but I'm hoping for Classic mode to be as good as Curse of the Moon. No need for the multiple characters/paths in this case so much as lots of cool structural design and platforming with preexisting assets. (And if Miriam's whips could attach to grapple points, I'd be over the moon!) Yes, a chance, and my suspicion is that WF is doing more/additional things perhaps besides the stretch goals for Bloodstained soon or even currently. For Classic and other stretch goal modes specifically though, I think that they would have been underway well before WF joined up, but they could be helping. My inclination toward them doing more than what we currently know is how Angel said something essentially to that effect.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 0:19:47 GMT -6
Finally, wouldn't it be nice if the game were a huge success and Nintendo decided to hire ArtPlay + Wayforward to do a 2D Metroid? Don't think it'll ever happen (and Nintendo is not known for working well with independently minded development houses it doesn't own), but hey, I never thought Nintendo would embrace indy games, either. Oh no, now you've got my imagination running out of control. Igarashi once said he'd be honored to direct a Metroid game if given the opportunity, didn't he? I don't think the planets could ever align any more perfectly if such a thing were to happen.
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Post by Masquerade on Feb 18, 2019 2:25:27 GMT -6
Would be great if Nintendo could acquire the Bloodstained IP and Iga...though it would be sad to see Roberto go But you know it would be in good hands.
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Post by Enkeria on Feb 18, 2019 7:01:32 GMT -6
gunlord500 If WayForward is working Pro Bono (or getting payed). I can still clearly see, like Inti Creates, that WayForward get the blessings of IGA to make Bloodstained chapters / bits / Spinn-offs. What kind of chapters? Who knows. I doubt in pixels.
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Post by Lepstadder on Feb 18, 2019 7:27:35 GMT -6
Would be great if Nintendo could acquire the Bloodstained IP and Iga I would probably kill myself if I learned that these games would eventually be a Switch exclusive, due to Nintendo having rights to it. It's not a farfetched idea. It's just that I don't own a Switch. I own a PS4 and an entry-level PC...
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Post by Enkeria on Feb 18, 2019 8:51:49 GMT -6
Lepstadder Yeah exclusives aren't very nice for the consumer. I might get a Switch 2.0 but then again, its better to have a major release for all platforms so everyone can enjoy the game. If they go exclusive, I might miss out. Like I did with the DS titles, which I have yet to try and even finish.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Feb 18, 2019 9:23:17 GMT -6
Let's not get ahead of ourselves that just because Nintendo got the game on Direct that the future of the series is Nintendo. I've seen a similar response from people all wanting to change their platform version to Switch just because of that lol, I mean...it'll be basically the same game on all platforms, like they've always said, and that's not new information. There's nothing wrong with the version you already picked just because the current flavor of excitement is Switch. If you just didn't believe that the game would look good on Switch until now, well shame on you, that's your fault haha.
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Post by gunlord500 on Feb 18, 2019 12:39:47 GMT -6
I've seen a similar response from people all wanting to change their platform version to Switch just because of that lol, :gunlord:
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Post by Mr. Welldone on Feb 18, 2019 12:42:30 GMT -6
If I got a Switch, I'd never leave the toilet (aka, the only place in the house that I have 2, maybe 3, seconds before one of my children finds me to ask me something like, 'Do horses have faces for a reason?')
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Post by Lepstadder on Feb 18, 2019 20:27:41 GMT -6
Mr. Welldone Mostly this. I got over my horrible habit of staying on the toilet for an hour just because of my phone. I wouldn't want the same to happen for a Switch. I own a console and a PC because I prefer spending time taking a deuce, being with friends or family, or simply playing games.
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Post by Mr. Welldone on Feb 18, 2019 23:45:12 GMT -6
Or, as it seems in my case, taking a deuce with family...
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Post by Clear on Feb 19, 2019 0:43:17 GMT -6
... my suspicion is that WF is doing more/additional things perhaps besides the stretch goals for Bloodstained soon or even currently. This is what I believe has been going on. And this is solely me thinking out loud here, but there may even be a possibility that WF was brought in to the project much earlier and had their Iga team-up announcement for the subsequent Kickstarter update planned afterward. My words shouldn't be taken as facts, for the record. I'm just paraphrasing and reiterating on that outside of our 70+ and on-going Kickstarter updates, there are going to be stuff happening during the project that all of us will not be privy to. That's just how it is.
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