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Post by recentteen14 on Jun 29, 2018 13:11:44 GMT -6
It's just dumb that they clearly aren't caring about a major, integral part of the game this late in- Gutting the controls from the previous demo... Why? They were there, they had them coded in and working, they could still have changed them later based on feedback, but moving a few and gutting the rest for no good reason? I'm more confused and saddened than anything at this point. Nobody wants to see this head in the direction of MN9 or Yooka-Laylee, we want one of the spiritual successors made by the teams of the original series to be good, but how can we trust when they pull something like this when it should have been a nonissue years ago? Hell, if they put back in the controls from the previous demo, they wouldn't be the best controls but they would actually be there for the controllerless users. So why won't they do it, even for a quick patch to allow more users to test the game, to finally play part of the project they helped fund so many years ago? It's completely baffling. If we don't raise noise about it and get them to do something, we're out the beta demo completely and have to wait- yet again- for the full game to even play what we paid for, we don't even get that sneak peak despite shelling out extra for it. They won't care unless we give them a good reason TO care, and maybe not even then, which is an issue. All we want are working PC controls for the demo, it's not asking for very much.
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 29, 2018 14:49:39 GMT -6
Continued complaints about the lack of keyboard support is very much welcome. I mean, if you've already commented there is no reason to keep stating your disappointment, but I encourage as many people who want to speak up about it to please post. This is valuable feedback and numbers matter. The team is listening.
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Post by digika on Jun 29, 2018 22:54:24 GMT -6
Continued complaints about the lack of keyboard support is very much welcome. I mean, if you've already commented there is no reason to keep stating your disappointment, but I encourage as many people who want to speak up about it to please post. This is valuable feedback and numbers matter. The team is listening. Oh wow. I mean... wow. It is not just that they don't give a single shit and don't even consider this an issue that requires an immediate fix for the backer's demo and apology, they also require a specific amount of complaints to be met before they even start to think "Well, may be this IS an issue we should take a look at and MAYBE fix it"The absolute state of PC game dev in 2018. What a disgrace and entitlement. |
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Post by Nezuto on Jun 30, 2018 0:39:42 GMT -6
I'm stepping away from this one. Seems to be actively out to start trouble at this point. Blocking and moving on.
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Post by ghaleon on Jun 30, 2018 1:03:24 GMT -6
Continued complaints about the lack of keyboard support is very much welcome. I mean, if you've already commented there is no reason to keep stating your disappointment, but I encourage as many people who want to speak up about it to please post. This is valuable feedback and numbers matter. The team is listening. Oh wow. I mean... wow. It is not just that they don't give a single shit and don't even consider this an issue that requires an immediate fix for the backer's demo and apology, they also require a specific amount of complaints to be met before they even start to think "Well, may be this IS an issue we should take a look at and MAYBE fix it"The absolute state of PC game dev in 2018. What a disgrace and entitlement. That isn't remotely what was said. Either you're trolling or you should brush up on your reading comprehension before you take such offense to what you read. I don't mean that as an insult btw. I have respect for people whose English may not be so hot because they speak other languages. My own 2nd language skills are near nil. |
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 30, 2018 4:20:32 GMT -6
digikaI can understand why people are upset about the lack of keyboard support, especially when we get responses that make it sound like it's the backers fault that they expected keyboard support when they shouldn't have. The apology there is for us having the wrong expectation, not that the keyboard controls are hard coded and broken. However, sir, you are misunderstanding my post you quoted. I was responding to a previous post that said, "The keyboard issue has been noted and spoken on, repeatedly." I wanted to let people know that it's ok to keep posting their displeasure with not being able to use keyboard controls. The team does care what the backers say, and it's not a matter of needing a certain number of people complaining. It's a matter of giving backers a platform to speak their mind. Consider this a warning about respect and breaking the rule about arguing with a mod in public. If you can't communicate with respect the community here will not suffer for long from such deconstructive dialogue. If you continue such behavior here we will have to take further action. As for others responding to him instead if reporting the post and letting a mod handle it, please don't do that. Reporting is enough and appreciated. Thanks everyone. I think this bug was unexpected and would love to see it patched.
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Post by digika on Jun 30, 2018 5:04:17 GMT -6
I think this bug was unexpected Seriously? So, you are saying, that they completely skipped ALL the feedback on the first E3 backer demo? Because lack of proper keyboard controls and its cistomization was one of the prevailing complaints, but since you said it was uh-oh so unexpected, I assume they didnt read it at all. That or they dont care. They released a DEMO (from "demostration") for PC without basic mouse and keyboard support. Do you even know it is technically violates Steam Partner ToS - you are not allowed to release game in a broken state (lack of basic keyboard support)? It it wasnt a closed access app I wouldnt hesitate to rally up a few people to report it so Steam can take proper action. |
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 30, 2018 5:19:36 GMT -6
Well, apparently it was expected and isn't a bug according to the tweet and your logic, I guess I'm wrong. Maybe contacting Steam is the right way to get the support you want, but you're here on the forum so communicate in a constructive way and don't be disrespectful.
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Post by digika on Jun 30, 2018 5:40:49 GMT -6
Well, apparently it was expected and isn't a bug So in other words, despite the fact they knew it was one of major issues of the original demo release, they still released next one with non-working keyboard input on purpose? Respect isn't something that is granted by default, it is earned. They had a chance to take past feedback and make amends with new demo, instead, people who pledged 60+$ for their project got spat in the face. I dont see a case here where they deserve respect. |
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 30, 2018 6:12:25 GMT -6
digikaThe keyboard buttons weren't clear in the last demo, but I don't recall it simply being unplayable. In fact, I've referenced in this thread the old thread that explains what buttons do what. This time around it's worse because the game is unplayable. So, yeah it seems like control on keyboard is even less of something that was focused on than last time. It's a good point to make, and I wish you could have made points without breaking rules. Directly quoting me on don't be disrespectful and saying something like this makes it easy for me to make a decision I normally find pretty harsh. Respect isn't something that has to be earned when you communicate on this forum. It's part of the rules. So is not arguing with a mod in public as I've stated before. I'm issuing a 1 week ban, and I hope that when you are able to post again you will completely understand and abide by the rules, as that's what it will take for you to not get permanently banned. I'm going to read up on Steam's policy on keyboard control requirements and how that applies to a Beta stage game. I encourage people to continue the conversation or expressing that they are also disappointed in this "bug" or lack of a basic feature. Just do so in a way that follows the rules and doesn't disrespect members.
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Post by gunlord500 on Jun 30, 2018 6:19:46 GMT -6
Respect isn't something that is granted by default, it is earned. They had a chance to take past feedback and make amends with new demo, instead, people who pledged 60+$ for their project got spat in the face. I dont see a case here where they deserve respect. digika Under other circumstances, I might chide a member, but I do understand your concern. I haven't encountered any severe bugs personally but the number of reports I've heard, combined with what you mention about keyboard support as well as the seeming graphical downgrade, has made me very worried about the state of the game. However, I'll second Mike's request for respect. Again, I understand how you feel as well as your disappointment, but two things to consider: First, people don't work better if they're supported and worse if they feel attack. It may be true that the team dropped the ball with a lack of keyboard support and other things, but yelling at them and being mean to them won't make them work any better or faster, and it may make them even less likely to listen to us. So on purely pragmatic terms, a degree of respect may be advisable, "earned" or not. They might not have taken our feedback into account, but if we continue to phrase it politely they *may* next time, even if it's only an infinitesimal chance. Disrespect will simply turn that minor chance into none at all.
Second, remember that a lot of members here are as concerned about the state of the game as you are. So at the very least, you ought to be a little more respectful and patient towards Mike and the other regular users on the forums, no matter how you feel about the devs. Us Bloodstained fans are in the same boat, so we should support each other and show forbearance towards one another, whatever the situation elsewhere may be. That's all I'm sayin, it couldn't hurt  |
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 30, 2018 7:16:40 GMT -6
As far as I can tell, there are no requirements by Steam that a game HAS to have keyboard and mouse controls or that they have to have a customization option. This was as close as I got to any requirements, but they are all guidelines and they don't even suggest it. partner.steamgames.com/doc/homeI'd ask digika where they got such information, but... that will have to wait a week. If anyone else can find any documentation where Steam requires keyboard and mouse support for every game please link it. I doubt it would apply to a game in the Beta development stage where it's closed from the public, but I'd still like to know if that's legit. |
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Post by DSLevantine on Jun 30, 2018 8:01:33 GMT -6
The demo is configured only for controllers. The keyboard commands weren't meant to be in this demo. The final version of the game will have keyboard support. it can't even detect my controller, what a shame |
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Post by DSLevantine on Jun 30, 2018 8:10:35 GMT -6
Delay a week to fix the bug? You should get your priority right, fix the controller and keyboard
PS: the apology is insulting. They cannot just use the "wrong expectation" to swift the blame, it anything, keyboard support is "valid expectation". what is wrong expectation? Iga and the team expect all the demo players have a controller ready. Same thing goes to the DRM, it is valid to expect the cotm in GOG. What is wrong expectation? Iga and the team expect GOG backers accept Steam COTM. With all due respect, Iga and the team are completely out of touch.
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Post by savingprincess on Jun 30, 2018 9:43:00 GMT -6
XombieMike I think we need to make the distinction that this game is designed for "Xinput" controllers. Saying it has controller support/was "designed for controllers" is confusing for people trying to use DS4's and other Dinput controllers. Maybe a sticky on the difference between Xinput and Dinput and some workarounds (Steam Controller Config, DS4Windows, etc.) might help clear up some confusion. Also highly recommended to recommend to the dev team that they add Dinput to the final build as well.
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Post by Nezuto on Jun 30, 2018 10:26:04 GMT -6
But....some of us are using DS4 controllers and have had no issues with just plugging it in. Perhaps it's something on the Steam Overlay's end? I, personally, do not use big screen mode, so unsure if that's a factor. Have those that have had the controller issues been solely on Steam or is this also happening a lot on GOG?
second this, though^
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Post by savingprincess on Jun 30, 2018 10:35:19 GMT -6
But....some of us are using DS4 controllers and have had no issues with just plugging it in. Perhaps it's something on the Steam Overlay's end? I, personally, do not use big screen mode, so unsure if that's a factor. Have those that have had the controller issues been solely on Steam or is this also happening a lot on GOG? second this, though^ Yes, Steam's Controller Configuration will automap DS4 controllers to use Xinput (in other words, to make games think it's a Microsoft (read: Xbox) controller). Most games on GOG are older, therefore support Dinput. Back then, games just supported whatever, but had no standardization. If you look at old PC games that DO support controllers it's often "button 1, button 2, button 3" which could be ANYWHERE on an older controller. On some it was the "A button" we're used to on an Xbox controller, on others, it was the start button. That's why Microsoft developed Xinput (and used the 360 controller as a model), as a way of standardizing and making console ports more friendly to developers. |
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Post by Nezuto on Jun 30, 2018 10:38:16 GMT -6
Ah, got it. I'm not a big Xbox fan, so never looked into the finer points of their input programs.
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Post by recentteen14 on Jun 30, 2018 15:13:54 GMT -6
Look, I get that they want people to play on controllers, but I do have a good question to the team: Why gut the controls of the original E3 demo entirely if that was the case? I get they weren't the best, but they were THERE for the purposes of testing it out- you could have more easily left those in, let us know controller was preferred and the keyboard controls were subject to change, and called that good- even if they were bad controls, they were passable enough that they would allow everybody to play. You could have very easily left those as they were for the purposes of this demo and just shown us the updated controls on the final build- so why would you go out of your way to screw over a good portion of the backers who have no controllers nor desire to get them?
There are so many ways this situation could have been extremely easily avoided, please, we want to love this game too- but that's hard when your goodwill is getting pissed away by something this petty and dumb in the backer demo of all things.
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Post by omega780 on Jun 30, 2018 17:37:14 GMT -6
Yeah this keyboard controls issue is really disappointing for me. I don't have a controller so I am just screwed.
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