Redogan
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Post by Redogan on Feb 28, 2018 19:05:39 GMT -6
Well....here's my feedback/impressions on the update. *Sigh* *Deep breath Jim Carrey style* First of all, let me preface with a blanket statement of great work on the update. Putting everything together and getting it out during the month of February took time and energy. It is clear that a lot is going on with ArtPlay and 505. This is a good sign. Breakdown ahead (spoilerized for brevity): That being said, this update fails to provide much new information, IMO. Just more tidbits and more "soon" promises. (Although I loved Angel's soon(TM) in the update!) I'm looking for "meat" in my updates. This one doesn't have much. Sorry, but that's just how I feel. To break it down: -Orchestrated music: OK, but the only thing we got to hear was music we have already heard before, but orchestrated this time. No new music. Glad the soundtrack is finished recording. Great news in fact. When I opened the update, I was hoping to hear some of the awesomeness that will be in the game. Something NEW. Something not shown/heard before. -Tord: Here is one new thing. Cool enemy design. Looks great! More of this type of thing in future updates please. Small piece of "meat" here. -Live Events: Fun facts. Good to know, but nothing with "meat" here. -Macuahuitl: Already been shown. No meat. -Rocket Sound/David Hayter: Already been shown. No meat. -Fan Art: A lot of fans are great artists. Nothing with "meat" here. -Last Word: Demo coming soon(TM). We already knew there was a demo coming. We just didn't know when--and we still don't. -Doodle at ArtPlay: Cool. Tiny piece of "meat" here. -Final line of update: "Look forward to a really great March update! It’s going to be “packed to the gills” with content!  " -- I foresee March's update showing us one new monster that has gills. And no other new information. But I could be wrong. It occurs to me that I sound like a naysayer/troll or what have you. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers. I'm just breaking down the update as I perceive it with the hopes that future information will in fact give me something substantial. I will say that I know this update took a lot of hard work. I appreciate everyone that worked hard to bring the update to us, and I appreciate the musicians and composers for all their hard work and interviews. Whether the updates meet my expectations or not, keep up the good work on the game behind the scenes. I may not know what is happening behind closed doors, but I'm sure the end result will be worth the wait. TL;DR: I'm disappointed in the content of the update, but I'm walking away with an overall positive feel for Bloodstained's progress. |
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Feb 28, 2018 19:41:47 GMT -6
Yeah, I can understand the feeling, Redogan. Honestly, while I was glad to have a behind the scenes look at the composers and their methods, I was thinking the same thing. That said, I'm increasingly getting the impression that IGA won't want to reveal too much of the enemies, stages, and other "meaty" aspects of the game before the official release, and I think it's entirely intentional. Here's why:
Although it may not get much attention, the storylines, plots, and discoveries of IGAvania games have traditionally been a pretty significant aspect of their appeal. People were excited about, say, Julius Mode in DoS, and finding out Barlowe was a bad guy in OoE, but these things came as total surprises to most of the fans even though some of us might have suspected it from dialogue, plot predictions, etc. So for Bloodstained, I think IGA wants to maintain as much of the surprise as he can. What's Gebel's true agenda? Though it seems likely, will we really get to play as Zangetsu? Etc. etc. The more detailed the updates he gives on the game itself, the greater the chance of folks finding out something he wanted to keep hidden--you know how perceptive and persistent us IGAvania fans are.
Thus, it seems to me that the meatier updates will more likely be about behind the scenes, brainstorming, planning and design work, but we'll have to wait until the demo and the subsequent release of the actual game to get as much info as we seem to be looking for. On the one hand, I understand why this might be tough, since there's so much anticipation for the game as well as so much worry about how it's going. But on the other hand, if the game is released and so much content is totally brand new to us--if we've literally never seen it before, even in updates--we'll be completely and utterly blown away! So I think the payoff might be worth it ;D
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Post by estebant on Feb 28, 2018 23:51:08 GMT -6
I was getting so excited listening to the composers, I was so ready to hear a like a 30 second clip or something. Then it ended.
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ReySol
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Post by ReySol on Mar 1, 2018 1:01:33 GMT -6
Music updates are my favorite! I loved to see behind the scenes of recording sessions and Yamane’s interview. I cannot wait to have the soundtrack. Please make the soundtrack booklet meaty, with the music commentary, pictures and detailed credits.
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Post by mourningxsun on Mar 1, 2018 1:46:17 GMT -6
I can rest happy when we get a full release of The Executioners OST instead of the one minute clip and trying to listen to it over the Bloodless fight.
Really just want to reiterate that the focus on music and the amount of detail about that particular aspect of the update was amazingly well done. You wanted to make meatier updates? This is definitely a great start.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Mar 1, 2018 3:43:11 GMT -6
mourningxsunYou don't need to listen over the Bloodless fight anymore But yes, a full version would be good. Luxurious Overture only has a full version because that was a leak from 2016 E3 Demo that someone found inside the demo's files.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 1, 2018 9:40:23 GMT -6
Redogan Usually it's me who is bummed about the update, goes to show you poeple look for different things. For you the music update would be better if we got a new track that was orchestrated but I think it was smart to focus on something we've already heard. Hearing the music in context with the game I think is pretty important so the more they keep underwraps the better. To know that the orchestrated tracks are complete and to even get to hear a taste of it and meet the composers is quite a big thing compared to what we've been getting recently. Also with the demo, people say it's not new info but it definitely gives us details we didn't already know. We are getting a SLICE of the game, it's not the E3 demos or anything....we get to play the boat section and progress farther than that and they will be taking on feedback from that demo. This is far meetier than what we've been getting and it seems they will have more new announcements in March so it'll only get better from here.
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Redogan
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Post by Redogan on Mar 1, 2018 11:35:13 GMT -6
I'm excited about the music in Bloodstained. So much so that I'm crawling the walls wanting to hear more of it! That's why I was let down with the update I guess. I just want MORE Bloodstained than they are willing to reveal. When I think about it, the behind the scenes stuff is good material for updates. The interviews in particular are interesting to me. I like the so called "Developer Diaries" that other games have done. I just felt that this recent update didn't give me much in the way of NEW information.
And that is what my gamer friends (outside the Army of the Night) are saying. Something along the lines of "we already knew that." And "Do they have a release date yet? It's been in development for almost three years." (They can be a bit cynical.) So, I'm always lurking/watching for NEW stuff to tell them. A new music clip would have been nice to show off.
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Post by Galamoth on Mar 1, 2018 12:07:54 GMT -6
While I'm not disappointed, I was expecting to hear some new music samples.
Ah well, I'm sure there could be some new themes in the next demo.
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 1, 2018 12:23:05 GMT -6
Redogan " And that is what my gamer friends (outside the Army of the Night) are saying. Something along the lines of "we already knew that." And "Do they have a release date yet? It's been in development for almost three years." (They can be a bit cynical.) So, I'm always lurking/watching for NEW stuff to tell them. A new music clip would have been nice to show off." _______________________________ Are those the same people that complain Miriam isn't fast enough despite all other IGAVANIA's being around the same speed?  I mean I saw comments as well saying development is in trouble if this is all they got for us. All of this stuff is hyperbole because we know we are getting a slice of the game relatively soon, we know that the soundtrack or at least the orchestral stuff is all complete. We know NEW things will be shown off in March. Either way, all I'm saying is there's gotta be a balance, you can't always show brand new things every update otherwise you don't have much of a surprise when people get the game. We heard plenty of new themes recently from Johanness theme, to the Gears theme playing in the garden, to the Asian theme in the Asian location. Showing an older track redone feels like a good idea at this point ( it's accompanied with knowledge that the soundtrack is complete ) when an overload of stuff is coming our way from a slice of the game, to E3 trailer, to a release this year. Some restraint is good at this point in development because we are close to the finish line. Not trying to harp, we ALL would love to hear music I'm just saying it kinda makes sense right now to have that balance. I mean hell i'd love to see some special swords and special whips but if we saw them then what's the surprise in finding them or making them?
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Angel-Corlux
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Post by Angel-Corlux on Mar 1, 2018 12:58:54 GMT -6
I've been keeping an eye on feedback on all online platforms, and while it's always nice to hear appreciation and the like, it is a little frustrating to see some of the negative feedback that conflicts both with negative feedback from others as well as opposite concerns that have been brought up in the past.
I think I'll be brainstorming with Mike on throwing some messaging out there and possibly a community poll both to gauge community feedback as well as communicate the intention and therefore expectations people should have of these updates.
Stay tuned
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Post by ReySol on Mar 1, 2018 13:23:12 GMT -6
For me, this is one of the best updates in the history of this project. I appreciate music a lot, so seeing Michiru Yamane and other composers talking about their work, as well as seeing the musicians perform is just fantastic! I am sure that majority of feedback will always be positive and you cannot ever be free of a small percent of negative feedback. I am sure someone’s negative feedback is coming only because they wanted to see something else. Also, people have different tastes, so you cannot satisfy everyone. This whole project and its updates are going so much better than I could have imagined. I enjoy the waiting and being here to read and comment on the development and our expectations. Even if we didn’t have all this, community and updates, I would believe strongly in the project. Iga is Iga and I believe in him  |
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 1, 2018 14:17:55 GMT -6
Yea, I think that's worth noting. Probably the vast majority are happy with the updates and how things have been handled along with the game itself. I just think there's a vocal minority. Having said that, once the demo comes out more people will be on board I'm sure.
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Post by freddythemonkey on Mar 1, 2018 14:33:03 GMT -6
I think that negative comments like "Give us a release date already", "New MN9", "Development hell" etc are to be entirely dismissed. Games takes time to make, and no matter how many times you tell these people, they'll always think they're done in an instant. Moreover, we haven't had a single REAL delay if I remember correctly. 2017 Kickstarter date was said very early to be placeholder and March 2018 was never an official date.
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Redogan
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Post by Redogan on Mar 1, 2018 15:06:40 GMT -6
At this point in the development process (or at least where I think it is), maybe the updates should give some kind of percentage left to completion or some bar graphs or something. I think I might be OK with not showing much new stuff if I knew where everything stood. If we aren't being shown cool new stuff and we aren't being told where things stand, then we are left to draw our own conclusions. (Which I tend to lean on the negative side where no news is bad news.) What I mean is something like: Main game completion: 96% Boss rush mode: 56% Asynchronous online: 22% Orchestrated music: 100% Voice acting (JPN): 100% Voice acting (ENG): 100% 2nd playable character: 48% 3rd playable character: 24% and so forth and so on... Is that possible or would that open a whole new can of worms?  |
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Post by mourningxsun on Mar 1, 2018 15:22:58 GMT -6
I'm a big fan of what Redogan just suggested.
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Mar 1, 2018 18:33:27 GMT -6
That's a great idea, Redogan ! Angel-Corlux will have the last word, of course, but I do think there are some considerations we would still have to keep in mind: 1: It may be difficult for the team to give specific "completion numbers" and not end up disappointing people later. As the adage goes, "The last 10% of a project will take up 90% of the time." Like, say the team is 90% done with implementing the new characters--models, voices, animations, etc. are all set up. So they say they're 90% done with that on the update and people go "Yay!" But then it turns out that there are some bugs/graphical errors with the characters in a certain part of the game, and they need to to fix it. As it turns out, that bug is extremely hard to get rid of and it takes them months to deal with it! So then the fans get angry because something that was "90% done" takes so long, even though that kinda thing is common in the development process. 2: Like I mentioned above, spoilers are a concern. If we say something like "The second character is already 90% done at this point!  " and then people see a video of the Zangetsu boss fight, well, it'll be easy for them to conclude that Zangetsu is the second character by putting two and two together. Like I said, IGAvania fans are smart, so that's another reason for IGA to keep everything on lockdown as much as possible to prevent from spoiling us, even inadvertently  |
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Post by DSLevantine on Mar 1, 2018 19:06:13 GMT -6
That's a great idea, Redogan ! Angel-Corlux will have the last word, of course, but I do think there are some considerations we would still have to keep in mind: 1: It may be difficult for the team to give specific "completion numbers" and not end up disappointing people later. As the adage goes, "The last 10% of a project will take up 90% of the time." Like, say the team is 90% done with implementing the new characters--models, voices, animations, etc. are all set up. So they say they're 90% done with that on the update and people go "Yay!" But then it turns out that there are some bugs/graphical errors with the characters in a certain part of the game, and they need to to fix it. As it turns out, that bug is extremely hard to get rid of and it takes them months to deal with it! So then the fans get angry because something that was "90% done" takes so long, even though that kinda thing is common in the development process. 2: Like I mentioned above, spoilers are a concern. If we say something like "The second character is already 90% done at this point! " and then people see a video of the Zangetsu boss fight, well, it'll be easy for them to conclude that Zangetsu is the second character by putting two and two together. Like I said, IGAvania fans are smart, so that's another reason for IGA to keep everything on lockdown as much as possible to prevent from spoiling us, even inadvertently IMO, the development process is more convincing than the "We are working on it" PR statement |
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Redogan
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Post by Redogan on Mar 1, 2018 20:02:48 GMT -6
Giving some stats on the development of main and secondary goals would give fans an idea of what is being worked on from month to month. As long as progress is being made on SOMETHING every month that we get an update, then fans have no room to make a fuss. Each category could even be labeled as "in progress" on months where the numbers don't change. That would allow for difficult bugs etc to not have to change the completion percentage every month. I think my idea of giving stats on completion rates is a good one; however, it is not my intent to suggest something that will add an unnecessary burden to the development team, IGA, or Angel-Corlux |
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Mar 1, 2018 23:36:12 GMT -6
Giving some stats on the development of main and secondary goals would give fans an idea of what is being worked on from month to month. As long as progress is being made on SOMETHING every month that we get an update, then fans have no room to make a fuss. Each category could even be labeled as "in progress" on months where the numbers don't change. That would allow for difficult bugs etc to not have to change the completion percentage every month. I think my idea of giving stats on completion rates is a good one; however, it is not my intent to suggest something that will add an unnecessary burden to the development team, IGA, or Angel-Corlux Hmm, someone brought that up on Kickstarter but Angel mentioned any description of specific gameplay elements (even just percentages) might give away 505's marketing strategy. I get the feeling they're preparing something big ;D |
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" -- I foresee March's update showing us one new monster that has gills. And no other new information. But I could be wrong.
I mean I saw comments as well saying development is in trouble if this is all they got for us. All of this stuff is hyperbole because we know we are getting a slice of the game relatively soon, we know that the soundtrack or at least the orchestral stuff is all complete. We know NEW things will be shown off in March. 
" and then people see a video of the Zangetsu boss fight, well, it'll be easy for them to conclude that Zangetsu is the second character by putting two and two together. Like I said, IGAvania fans are smart, so that's another reason for IGA to keep everything on lockdown as much as possible to prevent from spoiling us, even inadvertently 
