Update #48: The Village By The Castle

Eeeh.... I really didn't expect such criticism over stunning visuals. I'm going to play advocate here and try to defend the whole thing, because i really think some people are exaggerating. This will be a really long post.

Miriam's visuals

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Jango
You said Miriam looks too "cute". I think that's a really personal opinion and there is no way to counter that, since it is mostly something based on tastes. I completely understand what you are talking about, although i don't agree. That reminds me of the criticism over the art shift between the GBA Castlevanias and the DS Castlevanias years ago. Many people said it looked too "cute and animesque" and didn't fit Castlevania at all. But i don't agree with you that Miriam's overall design look too "cute". She actually looks almost exactly like the official artwork. And for me, her official artwork looks badass and awesome and not "cute / moe" like as you are implying. But, as i said, that is really a personal opinion, there isn't much i can say about it and i respect yours.
But yeah, they will not change that now. 

Shaders

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Scars Unseen
I partially agree with what you said. The shaders we choose a year ago made Miriam look way different from the rest of the scenario. But that was our choose, the backer's choice. The demo, and the videos showing gameplay and the Village now are all using the exact same shader choices we made back in the day. She doesn't look "floaty" now. She always looked that, since the beginning. Maybe it is a little more evident now due to the lightning work, but the game had that look since the beginning. And, to be really fair, most 2d games have the main character looks and feels "floaty" in a way. I don't know, for me, that was always the case in all Castlevanias i ever played (and i played all of them). 
I DO AGREE she looks a little "more" off than in the other scenarios and i pointed out that it doesn't happen in all places, just in the brighter ones. 
As i said before, this is the same criticism over the Vepar Boss color. It looked off with the rest of the scenario. 
I'm sticking with my opinion. The problem is that brighter places will make Miriam stand out, while in more darker ones she blends way better.
I really don't see that as a huge problem. It is a little off, yes, i do agree. But it is not something that destroys the whole game's look. (I know, you didn't said that).

Flatness and cardoboard look

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Thomas Happ's opinion
I partially agree with what Thomas Happ has said. The "flatness of the buildings" is there, yes, but i don't see any "cardboard" look. To be fair, the Village has a very 2d feel and maybe that's the problem. I don't know, it seems some people here aren't used to 2.5d games. Floaty, flatness, cardboard look...All those things are in most 2.5d games. And all those things are in Bloodstained since the first screenshot of the Demo. It surprises me people are noticing those things just now.

Seeing where the character is

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Astaroth
I completely agree with you. A rule of thumb in video game design is that you should never lose track of where the player's character is. People said we couldn't tell what was plataform and what wasn't in the ship, so they fixed that. Totally agree with you.

Defending Visuals

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CastleDan
You are not the odd one. Although i do think sometimes she seems a little off, i have almost no complaints as the game's look right now. Don't mind the Neogaf opinion. Most haters in the internet doesn't do anything else tham complain. People here are being constructive, people there are just being hater.

Some Gifs

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I'm not saying things are perfect. Yes, she looks a little off sometimes and yes, she was running while the celling was crumbling. But i think most people are exaggerating and seeing way more things than are actually there. Take a look at the gifs below:

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I honestly fail to see the huge difference between those areas, aestethically wise. Miriam looks a little floaty in all of them. She looks a little off in all of them. The only real difference is that in the Village, the cellings are brighter, so, you can see that a little more than in all other enviroments so far. 

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And yes, the twitter picture


How absurdly stunning is this red hellish looking village!

Yea I have to agree, they can make the background so detailed but character and enemies cel shaded, I hope they would cel shade everything as they showed on the shading thread, that way this game will look absolutely gorgeous and unique, specially for a horror atmosphere! I hope,they do that, and I am kinda sure that cel shading will help with the lighting too!

Once again, the update happened when I was fucking at work. B-/


All together I'm glad to see more of what the Bloodstained team have to offer. The village looks absolutely beautiful, as pure said, and I think it's just really coming together well. And yes, Enkeria , the walking animation while falling did throw me off a bit ahahaha.

"Miriam seems out of place" One or a combination out of these have been requested:

- Cell shading to the environment to make her pop less. Perhaps where she can interact, have it fade to the background.
- Change the environmental colors to darker.
- Change the environmental blue into more red colors on THIS area.
- Change nothing about the colors, instead add fire and glowing coal on these red areas.
- Platforms performance and viewpoint could be changed or shifted.
- Add cell shade on platforms, but not the background.
- Make all platforms toned down, but have them pop with thick shadows or outlines.
- Give her a strong shadow so minimize the feel of her "floating".
- Ground could much more darker when it comes to the below / underground objects.
- It is fine as is, just need more objects and enemies.
- Have her glow, making her outline being part of something else than just a cell shade / "line".
- Change Miriam (and all monster / item assets) to a more real style.
- Leave as is. Its fine.

More?

Well, my suggestion is sort of making the platform not look like it's been illuminated by a differnt lighting, because that's what it seems like to me.

Regarding the lighting on the platforms and the red tint on everything in the village:

The lighting seems right to me due to it being a twilight/dusk time setting. I imagine the sun going down on the side where the players are and shining that last bit of light on the village buildings, giving it that red look. The platforms (probably made of a different material that shines brighter--almost like a ceramic yellow shingle) are tilted toward the light at just the right angle so they have a different hue.

I think the lighting in the village is OK. It gives off an ominous tone that is perfect for the beginning of an adventure.

color may come back in later, we dont know exactly how done that 2nd shot is, they may have a default marble texture to check lighting and shader for depth and detail, plus if thats the entrance hall i could see the castle having this cold, dead first couple rooms that leads to a more colorful set of rooms like the 1st pic to further wow the player

in either case we have 1600+ rooms to explore, i can see some being very visually stunning but very selective with color to draw the eye like the red and gold tapestries framing those blood red windows in the very back, iga and team have plenty of room to put in color >P

CastleDan I'd very much like to see gameplay look that rich.

That's a question of interpretation

I hope these areas are NOT about the Castle being the biggest one yet. These are treated as a prelude of some kind, the stage of which the story arc is built upon, the quest and the idea of why Miriam will do whatever she will do.

The castle, having more rooms than ever before should be the biggest castle as of yet.

While Symphony of the Night had two castles (in one), there could be some kind of argue that the village and the ship are also part of the "biggest castle".

If the village also are something we need to frequently visit (using good old library village card) then I guess the village and the ship will be part of the whole "biggest castle". I hope not, mostly because I am greedy, and more locations are fun, if treated right and filled with something to do more than a long corridor of... jog and.. nothing..ness..

Realistically, the "caramel maps" that are made, are all done with the same engine, controlling same set of rules. If I were a developer, I would count every piece of scenery into the total sum, which would in a sense mean that everything, even empty locations (and top areas that might never been available for us to visit) a part of that sum, which would be deemed as "the biggest castle yet".

This is perhaps a good question for Mr. IGA in his next youtube video!?

Sorry for my odd writing abilities, I usually think backwards and my skills in writing in English are narrow. I hope people understand it anyhow.