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Post by 緋月エリ on Jun 19, 2015 0:02:27 GMT -6
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Cale
Great Old One
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Post by Cale on Jun 19, 2015 3:23:14 GMT -6
Well I am still not sure about the plot or history of the game entirely, so this is all speculation. Traditional transformations include Wolf, Bat, Fog. BUT Bloodstained will be the spiritual successor to the Castlevania series, Igarashi did not want to incorporate the public domain character of Dracula into it, feeling it would make the game too close to previous Castlevania titles and did not want to make his new game feel like a "half-baked copy". So I doubt we will see a single vampire.
What we are more likely to get are demonic transformations, à la The Lesser Key of Solomon. But we have an equal chance of homunculus, and/or golem transformations, because of the tie-in of alchemy.
It could even be something divine. "the real aim of all the preparation and cumbersome apparatus, was to unite their earthly, mortal soul with that of the Creator, to participate in the divine, to reawaken their spiritual consciousness, and to grasp the secret forces at work behind the natural world."
Or something nightmarish. "the transformation had more to do with the alchemists themselves than with a lump of metal. Turning lead into gold was a symbolic way of describing the true aim of alchemy: the spiritual transformation of the alchemist. If one takes the time to read the alchemical literature, it’s easy to come away feeling absolutely muddled. Strange creatures, impossible landscapes, paradoxes, and downright illogic seem to dominate; the closest thing to any modern is the writings and art of the surrealists, who, ironically, looked to the alchemists for inspiration or interpretation of dreams."
A little off topic but the more I read on alchemy I believe that Bloodstained's plot will revolve around Miriam searching for a way to recreate herself, and become human again.
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jim
Master of the Candle Skeleton
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Post by jim on Jun 19, 2015 4:51:56 GMT -6
Well I am still not sure about the plot or history of the game entirely, so this is all speculation. Traditional transformations include Wolf, Bat, Fog. BUT Bloodstained will be the spiritual successor to the Castlevania series, Igarashi did not want to incorporate the public domain character of Dracula into it, feeling it would make the game too close to previous Castlevania titles and did not want to make his new game feel like a "half-baked copy". So I doubt we will see a single vampire. Just because he doesn't want it to seem like a Castlevania rip-off doesn't mean that there won't be vampires. I mean we are dealing with demons, hellspawn, and the like. Who's to say vampires won't show up as a lesser enemy in the game? I would be highly skeptical of one being a boss or even a mini-boss but I could totally see " Lesser" and " Greater" vampires as (semi-)regular/reoccurring enemies in the castle.
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Cale
Great Old One
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The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
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Cale
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
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cale
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Post by Cale on Jun 19, 2015 5:26:30 GMT -6
Well I am still not sure about the plot or history of the game entirely, so this is all speculation. Traditional transformations include Wolf, Bat, Fog. BUT Bloodstained will be the spiritual successor to the Castlevania series, Igarashi did not want to incorporate the public domain character of Dracula into it, feeling it would make the game too close to previous Castlevania titles and did not want to make his new game feel like a "half-baked copy". So I doubt we will see a single vampire. Just because he doesn't want it to seem like a Castlevania rip-off doesn't mean that there won't be vampires. I mean we are dealing with demons, hellspawn, and the like. Who's to say vampires won't show up as a lesser enemy in the game? I would be highly skeptical of one being a boss or even a mini-boss but I could totally see " Lesser" and " Greater" vampires as (semi-)regular/reoccurring enemies in the castle. It is possible. I personally would love to see some Succubi or Incubi. But as for the vampire dressed in all black, or donning a tuxedo, I find it unlikely. Although, to stay away from Dracula-esque vampires, we could still have traditional vampires from folklore. If so, I am hoping for wholly traditional ones. Maybe even Ambrogio himself could make an appearance. But there is no transformations I know of from Vampires/Dhampirs/Wampirs. The only original folk tale I know of vampire transformation is the Azerbaijanese Xortdan transforming into animals. But back onto the topic of "what would you like to see Miriam transform into?". I like werewolves! Or what about an owl? (Could replace flying bat) Water. (Mist)
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jim
Master of the Candle Skeleton
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Post by jim on Jun 19, 2015 6:17:15 GMT -6
It is possible. I personally would love to see some Succubi or Incubi. But as for the vampire dressed in all black, or donning a tuxedo, I find it unlikely. Although, to stay away from Dracula-esque vampires, we could still have traditional vampires from folklore. If so, I am hoping for wholly traditional ones. Maybe even Ambrogio himself could make an appearance. But there is no transformations I know of from Vampires/Dhampirs/Wampirs. The only original folk tale I know of vampire transformation is the Azerbaijanese Xortdan transforming into animals. But back onto the topic of "what would you like to see Miriam transform into?". I like werewolves! Or what about an owl? (Could replace flying bat) Water. (Mist) Again, as far as non-dracula vampires, how about Bloody Carmilla? She's a character/lore source in her own right. And she would definitely fall into that era AND geography!
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Cale
Great Old One
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Cale
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Post by Cale on Jun 19, 2015 8:32:55 GMT -6
It is possible. I personally would love to see some Succubi or Incubi. But as for the vampire dressed in all black, or donning a tuxedo, I find it unlikely. Although, to stay away from Dracula-esque vampires, we could still have traditional vampires from folklore. If so, I am hoping for wholly traditional ones. Maybe even Ambrogio himself could make an appearance. But there is no transformations I know of from Vampires/Dhampirs/Wampirs. The only original folk tale I know of vampire transformation is the Azerbaijanese Xortdan transforming into animals. But back onto the topic of "what would you like to see Miriam transform into?". I like werewolves! Or what about an owl? (Could replace flying bat) Water. (Mist) Again, as far as non-dracula vampires, how about Bloody Carmilla? She's a character/lore source in her own right. And she would definitely fall into that era AND geography! I like it! Carmilla is far enough away from Dracula, but almost equally as infamous. Plus I get my hot female enemy fix! The only problem I have is that most of my preferences seem to try and make a Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust game. But I would prefer that Carmilla to Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2's Carmilla.
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jim
Master of the Candle Skeleton
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Post by jim on Jun 19, 2015 8:57:31 GMT -6
The only problem I have is that most of my preferences seem to try and make a Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust game. But I would prefer that Carmilla to Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2's Carmilla. Agreed!!
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H
Watermelon Overlord
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Post by H on Jun 19, 2015 10:13:30 GMT -6
Since Igarashi is the Hidden Swordwhip boss in the game, I wonder if he'll substitute the "Dracula fight", "Belmont fight", or be a different type of boss altogether.
Since Miriam has the stained glass curse, maybe she could have glass wings or make temporary armor with it. Or maybe borrow certain demon's abilities/forms. Lots of possibilities. Excited to see what they come up with.
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Jun 19, 2015 14:28:54 GMT -6
Just because he doesn't want it to seem like a Castlevania rip-off doesn't mean that there won't be vampires. I mean we are dealing with demons, hellspawn, and the like. Who's to say vampires won't show up as a lesser enemy in the game? I would be highly skeptical of one being a boss or even a mini-boss but I could totally see " Lesser" and " Greater" vampires as (semi-)regular/reoccurring enemies in the castle. It is possible. I personally would love to see some Succubi or Incubi. But as for the vampire dressed in all black, or donning a tuxedo, I find it unlikely. Although, to stay away from Dracula-esque vampires, we could still have traditional vampires from folklore. If so, I am hoping for wholly traditional ones. Maybe even Ambrogio himself could make an appearance. But there is no transformations I know of from Vampires/Dhampirs/Wampirs. The only original folk tale I know of vampire transformation is the Azerbaijanese Xortdan transforming into animals. But back onto the topic of "what would you like to see Miriam transform into?". I like werewolves! Or what about an owl? (Could replace flying bat) Water. (Mist) Wererwolf Miriam lol nice XD I like the Owl thing but I think a crow or raven would be more likely I love that thought of stained glass integrated in the transformation... I want the transformations to be more like SotN and less like... all the other ones where they just transform into a demon and dash across the screen. So I was thinking wolf (speed): a puma (or some big cat... white tiger?) bat (flight): a crow (or raven) (or she can just grow stained glass wings) mist (intangibility): dust (the next stage should be shards of stained glass that cut up enemies)
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緋月エリ
Ancient Legion
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緋月エリ
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Post by 緋月エリ on Jun 22, 2015 13:34:36 GMT -6
What we are more likely to get are demonic transformations, à la The Lesser Key of Solomon. But we have an equal chance of homunculus, and/or golem transformations, because of the tie-in of alchemy. It could even be something divine. "the real aim of all the preparation and cumbersome apparatus, was to unite their earthly, mortal soul with that of the Creator, to participate in the divine, to reawaken their spiritual consciousness, and to grasp the secret forces at work behind the natural world." Or something nightmarish. "the transformation had more to do with the alchemists themselves than with a lump of metal. Turning lead into gold was a symbolic way of describing the true aim of alchemy: the spiritual transformation of the alchemist. If one takes the time to read the alchemical literature, it’s easy to come away feeling absolutely muddled. Strange creatures, impossible landscapes, paradoxes, and downright illogic seem to dominate; the closest thing to any modern is the writings and art of the surrealists, who, ironically, looked to the alchemists for inspiration or interpretation of dreams." A little off topic but the more I read on alchemy I believe that Bloodstained's plot will revolve around Miriam searching for a way to recreate herself, and become human again. I think the homunculus transformations would be very interesting, as there is limitless potential with that. Seeing as Miriam is cursed by Alchemy, it would make it possible for her to gain chimera-like features. Maybe she would adopt Soma's soul collecting system and the different enemies she consumes would allow the player to choose how she would be able to transform (<-- That's probably too out of the ballpark).
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Cale
Great Old One
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The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
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Cale
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
624
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June 2015
cale
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Post by Cale on Jun 22, 2015 21:01:30 GMT -6
What we are more likely to get are demonic transformations, à la The Lesser Key of Solomon. But we have an equal chance of homunculus, and/or golem transformations, because of the tie-in of alchemy. It could even be something divine. "the real aim of all the preparation and cumbersome apparatus, was to unite their earthly, mortal soul with that of the Creator, to participate in the divine, to reawaken their spiritual consciousness, and to grasp the secret forces at work behind the natural world." Or something nightmarish. "the transformation had more to do with the alchemists themselves than with a lump of metal. Turning lead into gold was a symbolic way of describing the true aim of alchemy: the spiritual transformation of the alchemist. If one takes the time to read the alchemical literature, it’s easy to come away feeling absolutely muddled. Strange creatures, impossible landscapes, paradoxes, and downright illogic seem to dominate; the closest thing to any modern is the writings and art of the surrealists, who, ironically, looked to the alchemists for inspiration or interpretation of dreams." A little off topic but the more I read on alchemy I believe that Bloodstained's plot will revolve around Miriam searching for a way to recreate herself, and become human again. I think the homunculus transformations would be very interesting, as there is limitless potential with that. Seeing as Miriam is cursed by Alchemy, it would make it possible for her to gain chimera-like features. Maybe she would adopt Soma's soul collecting system and the different enemies she consumes would allow the player to choose how she would be able to transform (<-- That's probably too out of the ballpark). Soul collecting was fun, but I think I remember something about Iga not wanting that type of system in this game. (If I recall correctly, don't quote me on it, I can't find the link to what my mind might be imagining)
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Arcueid Brunestud
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 22, 2015 21:40:55 GMT -6
You're right. Iga said that souls was Soma's shtick, and would prefer to keep it that way. He wants his games to have a unique mechanic. Soma was souls, Shanoa is glyphs, and now Miriam is magic crystals.
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Post by ghaleon on Jun 22, 2015 21:47:24 GMT -6
Normally I have a pretty good grasp on work/reward when it comes to gaming features. But during that interview with Iga, and he mentioned how transformations are a lot of work, only then did it really occur to me that a transformation is pretty much as much work as making a whole new character. I mean a transformed character will need whole new sprites, idle poses, attack animations, hitbox mechanics, stat mechanics, mobility mechanics, combos if applicable, etc, etc... unless the transformation is of extremely limited function like fog or whatever, I can't help but wonder if it's worth having a transformation on the MC instead of another new character completely.
That being said the extra work involved may not be an issue if the animation/character assets are completed before some other portion of the game like level design or difficulty balancing and whatnot...Then those character animators and whatnot may as well start working on a transformation I guess..But even in that situation, then they probably can't make the transformation to have any exploration utility, because then they'd have to redeisgn the castle to allow for new paths and such for that utility, so it would have to be a combat-only transformation or something.
That and brand new characters likely have story elements to go with it. If they aren't willing to add that in, but the rest of a whole new character isn't a big deal, transformation sounds viable again. I honestly have no idea how storytelling is developed in games though, so I don't know if that's a likely or ridiculous scenario.
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Cale
Great Old One
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Post by Cale on Jun 22, 2015 21:57:25 GMT -6
You're right. Iga said that souls was Soma's shtick, and would prefer to keep it that way. He wants his games to have a unique mechanic. Soma was souls, Shanoa is glyphs, and now Miriam is magic crystals. Yay! Thank you, I am not crazy.
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Ciel
Executor of the Church
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Post by Ciel on Jun 22, 2015 22:09:07 GMT -6
I think the homunculus transformations would be very interesting, as there is limitless potential with that. Seeing as Miriam is cursed by Alchemy, it would make it possible for her to gain chimera-like features. Maybe she would adopt Soma's soul collecting system and the different enemies she consumes would allow the player to choose how she would be able to transform (<-- That's probably too out of the ballpark). Soul collecting was fun, but I think I remember something about Iga not wanting that type of system in this game. (If I recall correctly, don't quote me on it, I can't find the link to what my mind might be imagining) It is on one of the Ask IGA, #4 or #3, don't remember. I wonder what they are planning to do with the magic crystals, maybe some kind of "rage" mechanic? Like, you can use everything, but if you use too much your body will start to get consumed by the curse?
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Arcueid Brunestud
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 22, 2015 22:14:30 GMT -6
I think Iga mentioned that Miriam will level up by using the Magi-crystal curse. I would love a rage mechanic. I'd purposely lose control to see the non-standard gameover, like MP3's corruption ending...
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Ciel
Executor of the Church
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Post by Ciel on Jun 22, 2015 22:22:10 GMT -6
I think Iga mentioned that Miriam will level up by using the Magi-crystal curse. I would love a rage mechanic. I'd purposely lose control to see the non-standard gameover, like MP3's corruption ending... It could be even possible to do a specific gameover on certain bosses, if the boss in question has some kind of connection to the story. Or better yet: every time you get nearer of the threshold, your skills get more powerful and they gain new abilities.
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Jun 23, 2015 0:42:33 GMT -6
I do think her magi-crystal curse might have negative effects on her:
/posts/1252469
It says in this update that " When the crystals overtake Miriam, she glows red and her magic powers spike to dangerously high levels. The crystallization on her back grows to maximum size and radiates a cross, at which point the curse becomes unstoppable. Could Miriam end up suffering the same fate as Gebel?"
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緋月エリ
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Post by 緋月エリ on Jun 24, 2015 0:13:02 GMT -6
I do think her magi-crystal curse might have negative effects on her: /posts/1252469 It says in this update that " When the crystals overtake Miriam, she glows red and her magic powers spike to dangerously high levels. The crystallization on her back grows to maximum size and radiates a cross, at which point the curse becomes unstoppable. Could Miriam end up suffering the same fate as Gebel?" It will be very interesting to see Miriam transform into Alchemized creatures made of stained glass!
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JeffCross
Shadow of the Night
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Post by JeffCross on Aug 1, 2015 22:45:39 GMT -6
What about going in a completely different direction and have equippable transformations, that level up with use. maybe they are gained by finding certain stained glass portrait... and when they grow the portrait becomes fuller (or more complete looking)
what if one of her forms are mice... she turns into a bunch or mice? to get through bars or to break through cracks in walls
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