Olrox
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Post by Olrox on Aug 3, 2016 10:55:08 GMT -6
For those new souls, Bismark Kappa The 3rd was an enemy designed by IGA himself in the ending stream of the Bloodstained kickstarter as part of the challenges IGA had to accomplish along it. The peculiar monster has gained fame across the fandom and I think I can safely say it has become popular inside the comunity. I think it's clear that almost all of us want Bismark Kappa the 3rd to be in bloodstained in one form or another, but I'm interested in hearing the community opinions on how it should be implemented? Do you want him as boss? as an normal or rare enemy? what should be his drop? What ability would his soul give us? Basically this is a Bismark Kappa The 3rd general.
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Viftech
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Post by Viftech on Aug 3, 2016 11:17:15 GMT -6
I think it would be fun to have him as a boss. He is way to cool to just be a normal enemy. I think having him as a rare enemy is also an good option, but I would prefer him as a boss. His drop should probably be the gatling gun or the material to craft it. For his shard ability I think having Miriam take the place of the kappa and control Bismark Kappa the 3rd would be really fun.
BK the 3rd should be invulnerable, and only the kappa part should take damage. that would make it a little difficult to hurt him unless you hit from above or behind him.
Another thing I think would be fun is if we saw the different part of Bismark as regular enemies and when we fuse the drops together they form they become Bismark Kappa the 3rd, as an enemy or as a summon.
They could also just do something similar like the stone mask, by having the mask as equipment.
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Post by estebant on Aug 3, 2016 11:33:26 GMT -6
You should add "as a transformation" to the poll. Lol I want to play as Bk3
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Yän
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Post by Yän on Aug 3, 2016 12:00:18 GMT -6
While I don't think that they'll actually put him in the game as it was a "just for fun" kind of thing I'd prefer to have him either as a very well hidden easter-egg-like enemy or background element or as a secret, non-essential boss. His design (although I find it funny and charming) is too lore-unfriendly and wonky to be part of the main story in my opinion.
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Post by estebant on Aug 3, 2016 12:04:10 GMT -6
While I don't think that they'll actually put him in the game as it was a "just for fun" kind of thing I'd prefer to have him either as a very well hidden easter-egg-like enemy or background element or as a secret, non-essential boss. His design (although I find it funny and charming) is too lore-unfriendly and wonky to be part of the main story in my opinion. Can you elaborate please? Old Castlevanias had demon maids and skeleton bartenders.
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Post by Yän on Aug 3, 2016 12:13:44 GMT -6
While I don't think that they'll actually put him in the game as it was a "just for fun" kind of thing I'd prefer to have him either as a very well hidden easter-egg-like enemy or background element or as a secret, non-essential boss. His design (although I find it funny and charming) is too lore-unfriendly and wonky to be part of the main story in my opinion. Can you elaborate please? Old Castlevanias had demon maids and skeleton bartenders. Demon maids and skeleton bartenders are kind of funny and of course I don't want to argue against fun but still suit the style and environment they are in. For this one Iga just randomly and jokingly threw elements together without any reason for having said elements other than for the hell of it and because it made for a great gag at the moment. Also Bismarck Kappa the 3rd has a minigun as an arm. I just kind of didn't think that I'd have to specify why that isn't lore friendly or too over the top (in a funny way) for being part of a suitable boss enemy for this game.
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Post by CastleDan on Aug 3, 2016 12:16:19 GMT -6
I'm not a fan of the gatling gun as it looks way too modern in design. I think maybe as an enemy would be fine but don't want him as a boss when a more fitting boss could be in it's place. Basically what Yan said.
Skeleton maids are silly but they fit the gothic feel. A beefed up enemy with a machine gun as apart of his hand feels more fitting of a game that doesn't take place in a gothic world within the 1700's.
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Post by estebant on Aug 3, 2016 12:54:42 GMT -6
@yän I don't understand. So you admit its silly, fun and a gag. But you still don't think it should be in the game even as an enemy? The persephonies in PoR appear vaccuming a cave... how are they appropriate to their environment? Nobody takes Igavanias as seriously. Not even Iga. CastleDanCastlevania is no stranger to anachronism, and I doubt Bloodstained will be different.
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Aug 3, 2016 13:21:01 GMT -6
I would like to see Bismark Kappa III as a secret boss like many of the optional bosses in SotN... it would be cool so just be innocently searching for stuff when you find a big room and BOOM your in a boss battle with the funky Bismark (not to be confused with Bismarck the rapper). it could be summoned from a different time and space...
I also think it should be a backer only boss... at least for a little while then later dlc it.
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Post by crocodile on Aug 3, 2016 14:25:13 GMT -6
The design would have to be simplified a lot but I'd be down to have him as some sort of optional boss (even if he's something that isn't there at launch but comes later as DLC). I agree with others who say anachronisms (such as the machine gun) are a complete non-issue. Casltevania was already a series filled with anachronisms and I expect Bloodstained to follow route. "Realism" isn't something we should be too concerned about for this boss or other elements of the game.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Aug 3, 2016 14:40:30 GMT -6
Anachronisms moving backwards, yeah, but not as much forwards...except in the case of very minor things, like SotN New York-style pizza lol. The only firearms were the skeleton musket guys', whereas an automatic weapon attached to a monster's arm, DOOM-style, would have been quite out of place.
I think it could be adapted to be some kind of cannon-arm or something like that and would be mostly fine. Maybe even just magical projectiles? But anyway, on the main topic, a rare monster or boss, sure. Maybe he could be the mid-boss/pet before you fight IGA (i.e. Sigma's dog, Death, etc)?
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Yän
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Post by Yän on Aug 3, 2016 15:01:45 GMT -6
@yän I don't understand. So you admit its silly, fun and a gag. But you still don't think it should be in the game even as an enemy? The persephonies in PoR appear vaccuming a cave... how are they appropriate to their environment? Nobody takes Igavanias as seriously. Not even Iga. CastleDan Castlevania is no stranger to anachronism, and I doubt Bloodstained will be different. Yes, it is funny and yes it was a great gag for the stream event. I repeat: for the stream event. As a common enemy or boss though, it would be more irritating than funny. Each Boss is an opportunity to set a well thought out and nicely designed punctuation to its area. Now, they could either take that opportuniy and make each area feel complete like that or they could throw that away and just have a random mecha-muscle-mythology-mashup that IGA literally thought up as a joke. It's been a good joke at the time and it would be a good joke for a well hidden easter egg but let's not have Bloodstained's main story become "Joke - The Game". If they wanted to make a comedy game they'd have to change its entire tone anyway. This boss would fit right in to games such as metal slug. Great franchise. They have a general style and tone that allows for crazy stuff like that as main bosses. Bloodstained (or what we've seen so far) doesn't. I think the persephones are not a great example since in PoRs Cave they were indeed quite out of place and not something I would call good enemy placement as far as overall environment design choices go. The vacuum cleaner is no anachronism by the way as vacuum cleaners had long been invented in 1944. However, if you want a good example of using persephones look no further than AoS or DoS where (I believe) they were designed for their environment. I think that the Inner Quarters and the Demon Guest House make for much more interesting and memorable areas than the PoR cave-section because of their cohesion compared to the more arbitrary enemy-selection in PoRs cave. Coming from this point of view and looking at Bismarck Kappa the 3rd I can honestly not even find the cohesion within this enemy's design itself. I'm not saying it shouldn't be used - just not as a regular boss. Hide it really well as an easter egg and it could serve quite nicely as a sort of persiflage on ridiculous spontaneous boss designs as well as being a subtle nod to fans who witnessed this guy's inception. I'd be cool with that.
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Post by Yän on Aug 3, 2016 15:04:14 GMT -6
Maybe he could be the mid-boss/pet before you fight IGA (i.e. Sigma's dog, Death, etc)? Hell yeah! That would be a fantastic way to make use of it as it is IGA's pet in a way
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Post by Yän on Aug 3, 2016 15:07:08 GMT -6
I agree with others who say anachronisms (such as the machine gun) are a complete non-issue. Casltevania was already a series filled with anachronisms and I expect Bloodstained to follow route. "Realism" isn't something we should be too concerned about for this boss or other elements of the game. I think that I might be having memory issues - could you point out some specific instances of major anachromisms in Igavanias? I can't think of any which makes discussing this quite difficult to me ^^
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Post by estebant on Aug 3, 2016 15:46:50 GMT -6
AHHH! Too many things to respond to. Don't really feel like writting a wall of text.
1. We all agree Bk3 as a joke enemy would be cool and funny. We all would prefer a cool boss instead of a five second sketch. 2.Castlevanias in the past had things like Electric Guitars as weapons, Hamurgers, Juste had a radio, White Rabbit from Alice In Wonderland, motorcycle skeletons, etc. 3. In a universe where magic exists time travel isnt unlikely. Even the belmonts could manipulate time.
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Yän
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Post by Yän on Aug 3, 2016 16:46:35 GMT -6
2.Castlevanias in the past had things like Electric Guitars as weapons, Hamurgers, Juste had a radio, White Rabbit from Alice In Wonderland, motorcycle skeletons, etc. Wow, thanks for the reminders! I did some research and here's what I think: Didn't know about the Guitar-Weapon in Curse of Darkness. Must be pretty hard to get or rare? 'Cause I've played that game a lot and never saw this weapon. Well, the game had some silly weapons, especially in the special-category. I think this is okay as long as you usually won't notice it in a non-completionist-playthrough. I'd say it falls into the easter egg category. The hamburgers and radio I think are just bad, honestly. They could easily have been replaced by something similar yet more fitting, are not particularily funny or interesting and are likely to be discovered. In the case of the radio you even have to discover it for the best ending. This is exactly the way I wouldn't want Bismarck Kappa the 3rd to be implemented. It's just a pretty lame unneccessary way to break suspension of disbelieve. If you're refering to Chronomagus in AoS I don't think that this qualifies as an anachronism since the game plays in the future and Alice in Wonderland will have been written (obviously). I think it's okay for the game to make this reference as the Igavanias reference fictional creatures all the time anyway. As for the motorcycle skeletons: They suck (imo) but they don't count because they're not even in an Igavania.
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BloodyTears92
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Aug 3, 2016 17:07:19 GMT -6
I'd want to see him as a boss, it'd be really funny if it happened. His shard should grant Miriam a Kappa as a Familiar!
Granted Bismark is such an in-joke that I dont even know if he'd be wise if they did include him. How many people would buy this off the shelf, find him and go "what in the blazes is this!" That'd be the only real reason to be "against" his inclusion. I've always been all-for Castlevania having silly monsters. Its not exactly some dark, gritty, deadly serious franchise. Heck, Bloodstained is already leaning towards the lighthearted scale, I cant wait to see what nonsense we can have Miriam wear XD
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Post by estebant on Aug 3, 2016 21:51:40 GMT -6
2.Castlevanias in the past had things like Electric Guitars as weapons, Hamurgers, Juste had a radio, White Rabbit from Alice In Wonderland, motorcycle skeletons, etc. Wow, thanks for the reminders! I did some research and here's what I think: Didn't know about the Guitar-Weapon in Curse of Darkness. Must be pretty hard to get or rare? 'Cause I've played that game a lot and never saw this weapon. Well, the game had some silly weapons, especially in the special-category. I think this is okay as long as you usually won't notice it in a non-completionist-playthrough. I'd say it falls into the easter egg category. The hamburgers and radio I think are just bad, honestly. They could easily have been replaced by something similar yet more fitting, are not particularily funny or interesting and are likely to be discovered. In the case of the radio you even have to discover it for the best ending. This is exactly the way I wouldn't want Bismarck Kappa the 3rd to be implemented. It's just a pretty lame unneccessary way to break suspension of disbelieve. If you're refering to Chronomagus in AoS I don't think that this qualifies as an anachronism since the game plays in the future and Alice in Wonderland will have been written (obviously). I think it's okay for the game to make this reference as the Igavanias reference fictional creatures all the time anyway. As for the motorcycle skeletons: They suck (imo) but they don't count because they're not even in an Igavania. I didn't expect you to actually bother trying to justify all those dude. I was just listing off stuff at random. In my opinion, if they wanted to make every single enemy outrageously bizzare and even anachronistic I would be all for it. There are so many games that take themselves so damn seriously. Compare the enemies from something like Bayonetta to something like Skyrim. Of course this is all just my opinion but I'm still salty over bloodstained fans picking generic ass knight familiar over the ridiculous unusual imp familiar. I understand different doesn't mean good. But I will take that bizzare camel penis guy and that retarded looking snake hand guy from the concept art of bloodstained to generic boring werewolves and goblins from the first Lords of Shadow. But I don't want to derail the conversation so....
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Post by JeffCross on Aug 3, 2016 21:57:25 GMT -6
2.Castlevanias in the past had things like Electric Guitars as weapons, Hamurgers, Juste had a radio, White Rabbit from Alice In Wonderland, motorcycle skeletons, etc. Wow, thanks for the reminders! I did some research and here's what I think: Didn't know about the Guitar-Weapon in Curse of Darkness. Must be pretty hard to get or rare? 'Cause I've played that game a lot and never saw this weapon. Well, the game had some silly weapons, especially in the special-category. I think this is okay as long as you usually won't notice it in a non-completionist-playthrough. I'd say it falls into the easter egg category. The guitar can easily be made with these items Tabar + Lightning Stone + Dark Crystal, they aren't that hard to get... but I am a lazy completionist and I was obsessed with stealing items from enemies... but when I found out I had to steal stuff from bosses I kinda gave up... it became too much of a hassle. but none of those items are boss items maybe the Evil Cores were hard to steal from or maybe the Thunder Demons were hard to steal from? I don't remember it was so long ago. But the guitar was fin to play with.
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Post by CastleDan on Aug 4, 2016 8:38:36 GMT -6
Just because previous games had stuff like that doesn't mean they're good additions. Skeletons on motorcycles are stupid imo. An electric guitar is ridiculous. However, the electric guitar feels like a joke weapon which makes it okay, just like skeleton maids and silly things. Those are cool additions usually because it's lighthearted. A boss with a gattling gun arm isn't light hearted it's a clear design choice for a boss. So to me it's a no no when you could be doing something much more gothic and in theme of the game.
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