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Post by crocodile on Dec 22, 2015 20:30:07 GMT -6
Just a heads up, Inticreates will be streaming tonight on at 11pm EST/8pm PST. I assume this will probably be lead by Matt Papa and is supposed to be the start of some sort of community focused periodic (weekly? monthly?) stream. I don't know exactly what this will cover or if Bloodstained will be a part of this at all but it might be a good opportunity to learn more about the company and the people who work there.
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Trains?
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Post by crocodile on Dec 22, 2015 9:07:51 GMT -6
Consider all/most of the game takes place in a castle, I'm not sure there would be need/place for a train. A ghost train boss would be kind of cool though. But again, hard to fit into the narrative of this game. If this game were structured more like Simon's Quest/Order of Ecclesia then that would be easier to accommodate.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 21, 2015 6:40:18 GMT -6
I came across this quick video going over the release and reception history of the Castlevania series. I assume most posting in this forum are familiar with this history but I'm sure there are those who are unaware or could use a refresher <3
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Post by crocodile on Dec 21, 2015 6:14:37 GMT -6
I think at the very least, things like the shader discussion demonstrate that Inticreates has learned from their experience with Mighty No 9 and are trying hard to avoid falling into the same pitfalls (at least aesthetically speaking). It should be seen as encouraging and thus, so far, I am encouraged.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 21, 2015 5:56:23 GMT -6
A) Most of the cited examples of "enemies coming out of the Z axis to attack you" still represent foes that whose hitboxes and hurtboxes only exist in the X and Y dimensions. I had something different in mind from what cecil-kain suggested with enemies having their hitboxes and burtboxes in different planes or being able to strike at least initially without exposed hurtboxes. Nonetheless, I'd prefer it if those sorts of foes where kept rare as they were in even past games.
B) I forgot the opening for Portrait of Ruin was 3D. Pretty average quality CGI IMO. I'm not ideologically opposed to CGI but it needs to be better stylized and with more color than what I saw there. The recent Jojo openings would be a bar for what I consider some quality, lively Japanese CGI. I think ufotable has done some good CGI work with God Eater and the Fate series too. CGI talent in Japan is improving but 2D is still their forte and they don't have a shortage of quality animators to do the job.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 15, 2015 23:48:01 GMT -6
Having monsters come out of a Z-axis and attack you whilst you only move and attack along the X & Y axes sounds like a great way to frustrate the player. Graphical flourishes in the background seem fine & cool though. This already happened in some Castlevanias, remember that mirror monsters from Aria of Sorrow? (or Dawn, I don't remember which one had it) Do they actually attack you from the background or just start in the background and then move to the foreground before actually going on the offensive? I don't remember this well and I don't have either of the Sorrow games on hand to check.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 14, 2015 21:07:59 GMT -6
Having monsters come out of a Z-axis and attack you whilst you only move and attack along the X & Y axes sounds like a great way to frustrate the player. Graphical flourishes in the background seem fine & cool though.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 14, 2015 12:54:37 GMT -6
I think hardware limitations did play a big part in the design of Circle of the Moon (not made by IGA but still in that same vein of gameplay) and Harmony of Dissonance and the touch screen stuff felt shoe-horned in for Dawn of Sorrow but otherwise, Aria of Sorrow on I don't really think the hardware held the gamplay or most non-gameplay related aspects of the series back in a way that precluded sales or mindshare. The biggest hardware detriment to the handheld entries I agree with would probably be the music - I think only Order of Eccelsia get anywhere close to matching Symphony of the Night in terms of music. Any way in which the handheld titles may compare unfavorable to SOTN (and again games like AoS and OoE hold their own vs SOTN IMO) I would say are due to scheduling and resource issues than anything else. IGA and crew got like 2-3 years to work on SOTN if I recall. However, IGA had to pump out Portrait of Ruin in like a year right? That has nothing to do with hardware and everything to do with Konami not investing and/or believing in the franchise as much anymore.
With regards to the transition of franchises across the 2D vs 3D threshold and how that pertains to relevance, my feeling and my recollection from my childhood was that basically series like Mega Man and Castlevania were only like a tier or two below stuff like Mario and Zelda in terms of mindshare and sales. Once we cross that threshold, Mario and Zelda are just as relevant as they've ever been but there's no question that series like Mega Man and Castlevania started to decline. SOTN was a highlight of the franchise but I think the complete failures of the N64 entries of the franchise hurt it a lot in terms of mindshare. SOTN proved that the series still had a lot of good 2D action to provide but the way the market was trending was away from 2D gameplay starting with the arrival of the PS1 and moving through the PS2 and PS3 generations. I mean we all remember how anti-2D Sony (at least Sony of America) was during the PS1 and PS2 eras right? Again, I really think its the growth of the indie scene (everybody who played the NES classics was now old enough to start making and selling their own video games) that helped make the market more receptive to 2D gameplay. That started in the console space just around the time that OoE and the last hurrah of the Igavanias was landing but didn't start "blowing up" until just afterwards (that bad timing). The strong indie scene is a hospitable environment for 2D games and thus is a great environment for Bloodstained to launch in. I admit its a bit hard to empirically measure "mindshare" and I don't have all the sales data laid out before me but that's at least how I remember how things played out in the video game industry over years past.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 14, 2015 5:46:18 GMT -6
Another great episode (so was episode 3 but I never got around to posting about it). I think the audio mixing (levels between speakers and background ost) was probably at its best here of the four episodes so far. I had only heard about Operation Akumajo when the Bloodstained kickstarter began so this episode was very informative. cecil-kain is a bigger big shot than I thought. Many props to him for his contributions to the KS, this forum, and the work he has done behind the scenes for the Castlevania fanbase. Some comments I had on points brought up in this episode: • Lords of Shadow is scored a lot like a Hollywood movie and not so much like a video game. That's why a lot of the music is atmospheric but doesn't really pop or stand out to you. It lacks a "hum-ability" factor that is often important in old school video game OSTs such as the Castlevania series. • With regards to Castlevania lore, I think it helps that each game in the series builds off each other and has a connected history stretching decades of games. Not many video game series can a real, robust and meaningful timeline. Metal Gear comes to mind but not many others. I think that may be part of its appeal even if it can get convoluted or reconnected often. • I know a lot of people like to hold up SOTN as the GOAT but even as great as that game was (and boy was it good), I personally like AoS and OoE more. Or at least they are comparable I feel and definitely not lesser games. I think that's probably because of all the Igavanias, SOTN was actually the last one I played rather than the first one like for many on this forum. • I think a Concert Hall or a Music Parlor that doubles as a sound test sounds awesome for a backer hidden room. • I don't know how many people donated to make a hidden room but perhaps there should be some coordination between people so like Miriam doesn't get like 5 rooms LOL? I guess probably Inticreates will take care of that later • Regarding Miriam's room, stuff like warp & save points in the room sound great as decorations and maybe a way to manipulate a day & night cycle (if such a thing were to be in the game). The rest discussed seems a bit much IMO • I'd assume backer portraits would be spread across hallways or art rooms ala Shovel Knight? • A whip that turns you into a Vampire? Seems something better suited to a transformation or an armor/accessory? • Not a fan of swimming mechanics in these sorts of games but I recall there was a thread on this subject in the game suggestions forum and I already expressed that same opinion there. • With regards to the "Undead Executive" backer enemy, I'm not sure there's any need to poke the Konami hive. I'd say just let them be. Also business suits seem to clash with the vibe of the game? Like a business suit is something I think works as a silly costume but I feel enemies (made by Inticreates or by backers) should fit the game world. Just my two cents. • Gunvolt just added a Christmas Mode to their game. Snow, new music, etc. Might be something to look at with regards to holiday events in this game? • I'm 100% confident Dawn of Sorrow would have sold worse on PS3 than the 3DS (to say nothing of the fact it would have been more expensive to produce given resolutions differences and what not). Remember, the DS (2nd best selling system of all time) outsold the PS3 and I think 2D games in general were under-appreciated on consoles back then though I think that's been improving lately with the flourishing of the indie game scene. I also think diminished sales had a lot to do with the hyperfast schedule Konami made Iga put the games out (burnout). Finally, I think the fact Castlevania failed to make the jump to 3D in a successful way like say Mario or Zelda meant the series overall fell in the public profile. The Mario and Zelda series still get 2D games but I think if those series hadn't made a smooth transition into the 3D realm, even the 2D games would have suffered. I honestly can't think of any multi-decade old series that didn't see massive declines in popularity as it crossed the 16 and 32+ bit generations threshold if it didn't at least have successful ventures in the 3D realm. I can't definitively establish any of this but that's what I believe.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 11, 2015 3:07:39 GMT -6
The platforming has rarely been the strength of IGA games unfortunately. That being said, there have been some strong spots - the Training Grounds in Order of Ecclesia comes to mind. I do hope we get some/alot of that in this game. Like obviously I'm not expecting Mario nor am I interested in pixel perfect jumps but that still leaves a lot of room for good stuff. No ledge grabbing though - that hurts pacing and it was unfortunate it ended up in Mighty No. 9.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 9, 2015 15:07:27 GMT -6
Absolutely it helped. Like 1000%. It helped with Mighty No 9 and Capcom as well as Yooka-Laylee and Rare/Microsoft. Spite is a powerful incentive to get people to contribute to a kick-starter if by doing so they think they will send a message of "screw you" to big publishers. Jim Sterling talks about it in his video of why he has backed some recent crowdfunding games he did. His sentiment of "screw Konami" with respect to Bloodstained is something I saw ALL OVER THE INTERNET at the time:
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Post by crocodile on Dec 9, 2015 5:52:14 GMT -6
Just popping in to say HELL YES!!!
Samurai Jack is one of may favorite cartoons ever. So glad it will actually have a chance to finish the story <3 Gonna be a bit awkward now that Mako (Aku's VA) is gone but perhaps the VA who replaced him in the Avatar series can come back again? I never found him as good as Mako himself though so I dunno if he can hit the highs of Mako's Aku performance.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 9, 2015 5:47:01 GMT -6
Both shaders were definitely over-lit. Inky black shadows are extremely important here. There's no sense of dread or even wonder when you can clearly see the entirety of the environment. The examples given from the devs evoke a lightheartedness and playfulness that kills the gothic majesty that Ive always associated with CV. This castle is home to demons, the dead, and the damned. Not the characters from Disney's Beauty and the Beast. On a side note, I REALLY hope these textures are little more than programmer art. I know many people don't like Mirror of Fate and the LoS series in general, but the art direction was phenomenal. I spent way longer than I care to admit just admiring the textures in MoF specifically. They were at the same time extremely detailed while evoking a painting-like stylization. There was also no shortage of pitch-black shadows, which really helped evoke that sense of classic CV melancholy. Contrast is key. Igavanias aren't know for their shortage of locale variety. There were plenty of non-gloomy/relatively bright spots and regions within them. I don't think the castle needs to or should express a sense of dread and foreboding throughout its entirety. A few spots/regions sure but I don't feel this should be a game afraid of color. The textures I'm sure will improve in time - I'm not too worried about them right now.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 9, 2015 5:43:26 GMT -6
I can get behind some of these suggestions (like the origin of the inevitable relics or the demon merchant) though some of them seem cool but unnecessary. Like I don't think zombies in the castle corridor are something that need to be justified. Like any good writer(s), IGA will have to find the appropriate balance between fleshing out his world and make it seem like a real, living, breathing place and when to leave things alone to avoid overindulgence. I think most writers would die of old age is they had to fill in every nook and cranny but you are right in that you don't want to make things seem too video-gamey.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 8, 2015 23:48:34 GMT -6
I know Arc Systems have a knack for putting up older versions of their games on PC while the new hotness is in arcades or consoles. I've heard about Melty Blood and I'm kind of decently familiar with it just based on cultural osmosis. Is the version that is to go up on Steam the last/most recent version of this now several years old game? The product becomes entirely unappealing if there is a newer/more up to date version out there.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 8, 2015 23:21:50 GMT -6
I've said I prefer Orthographic Projection (or something closer to that) and I still stand by that though I'm perhaps a little less strict on that than I was maybe a day or two ago. That isn't to say I don't trust IGA & crew to deliver a beautiful and quality game with Perspective Projection (and he could certainly have some cool things planned with that perspective choice), I just know from past experiences that I've thought games, past and present, using a more orthographic approach have often been the ones I often thought looked better. They have also often been the games with tighter controls but that may have been more a function of the developers who have made such games in the past rather than anything intrinsic to that perspective.
I feel I recall Shadow Complex being a game IGA was impressed with during the launch stream but though I haven't gotten a chance to play the game yet myself, I don't think I was the biggest fan of its perspective from what I saw. Trine 2 is probably a good recent example of a Perspective projection game that looks great though the comparison is a little though since the level design is so unlike the Igavania games. I wish there was a way to compare and contrast how rooms in this game might like in both perspectives both in screenshot form and short video form but I have no idea if that is a unreasonable demand in regards to the work the developers have to do (especially with the holiday break fast approaching). I suspect it likely is an unreasonable request though.
EDIT: Mike's photoshops are cool but its a bit hard to compare a real, if early, in-engine screenshot with something made in photoshop. If the developers could actually make that orthographic perspective in engine (again they may not have the time to do so I dunno) then a real comparison could be made. That being said, I'm just expressing my preferences, not demanding any change take place.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 7, 2015 19:01:51 GMT -6
I think it is most probably that no one will support me, but i would REALLY like to see sexy clothing. I know Castlevania games weren't much on that side, but most games still had some touch into the sexy section (or do you really think that the backless dress of Shanoa and the open chest t-shirt of Maxim was just to make them look cool?). Not something overly lewd, but a little sexy touch, like a gothic lolita look with some more skin to show, or a custom vitorian dress with a big cleavage and a micro-skirt with pantyhose. I think in the PAX Prime panel, they discussed that Miriam initially had a sexier design but they decided to moderate the design. I think where they have ended up with Miriam is great so I think they made the right choice. For the sake of curiosity though, I wonder what that design looked like. It could be cool to have that be something included in the artbook or as an optional/secret costume. Just for the sake of options. Different people will feel different ways about costume design and what not but I'm willing to allow more leeway in optional costumes. I would agree with others that something like a "Mario" outfit is pushing it but something that can fit more the context of the world (but still be fantastical given this is still a fantasy game and not real life ) seems right. We already know they are doing cross-over costumes/items so this may be a bit trickier but then again I do think things like Shield Knight and Shantae outfits can be made to work easily in the context of this game. A shout out to maybe Ajna of Indivisible would be great too but that's probably hoping for too much
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Post by crocodile on Dec 7, 2015 18:42:12 GMT -6
It wasn't my intention to make to feel uncomfortable Apollonian so I'm sorry if that's what happened. Wow, the rudeness needs to stop. There is a lot of hostility and no reason for it. People have different views, whatever. It is fine to disagree, but you can do it in a respectful way. There is no reason to insult ANYONE for their views on the subject. Just say you simply disagree and state what you think. That is a discussion.. In the end it is really up to the development team and Iga.. In my opinion, I think the extra shoulder piece looks a bit silly. I like having that side of her exposed. I do think her slightly bigger bust size makes the stained glass look a bit distorted, to me it honestly looks like she has tattoos all over her body, which is unfortunate because I think they could make her look really amazing if they tried to make it a bit more like glass. I love the idea also that the glass would be see through and you could see the inside as well. I think its just a matter of color and texture with regards to the curse mark. Like this modification of the shaders by Mike below I think does a better job of making it look more like glass: So its clear just a slight bit of tweaking can get it right. Though to be honest, the more I look at the original pictures, the more ok I am with the curse mark as is (at least in Shader #1). Again it can be improved upon but I feel I like it more than I did looking at it a few days ago. Okay guys, let's stop and wait for Mike to wake up. This thread went to places I'm sure nobody wanted it to go, and I think some moderation needs to be exercised for this to work out. Not all of us agree (communities, how do they work? ) and what not but I thought this conversation is/was very civil and respectful with the exception of one poster. I hope kowakaki can relax a bit Also, to Apollonian , I think I'd remove those gifs in your most recent post. That's just going to lead to escalation
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Post by crocodile on Dec 7, 2015 16:50:03 GMT -6
People knew what they were getting into when they backed the game, the main character's design barely change from back when she was first revealed and I doubt she will change that much. Trying to change her now to lower her sex appeal because other games use it the wrong way or just because some people want to be PC is simply not the way to go and ends up affecting the author's creativity and freedom. I really hope that kind of people don't affect this game at all, I've been waiting for years for a new igavania with a Shanoa-ish main character I don't mind the outfit personally but I do wish instead of increasing her bust size 10-fold they made the stained glass look like stained glass (priorities!). As a side note...if they do fix it, it would be cool if it was a bit translucent and you could see her heart beating. If you look at the collection of all the official art, I wouldn't call Miriam a "small" woman. Which is a-ok. I understand the overall pushback against over-represented body types in gaming and what not but I always do feel a bit uncomfortable when the argument focuses primarily on "X is too big" as if that isn't a way in which actual women naturally vary as well. Now of course its not actually "body shaming" because Miriam isn't a real person. But it gets a little too close for my comfort. That's how I feel at least. As for the character model, a good point was brought up by Rednavi in that the modeling does work to highlight the curse and make it more visible and to that end I think it was a good move on their part so I'll stand by that. The curse mark itself could stand to look more like glass than a tattoo but that is something that will obviously be refined with time. Actually getting to see her heart through the mark I'd assume is a level of detail that's impossible to reach (and have it look good) outside of extreme closeups and any cutscences that might use the game engine.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 7, 2015 3:16:31 GMT -6
That's actually a good point about modeling the actual shoulder itself. The glass rose on her chest has always been a pretty critical element of Miriam's character design and I think should remain so. If they wanted to change aspects of the shoulder design with the added cloth (either because they felt it was more aesthetically appealing or because of modeling constraints or whatever) then it makes sense that they may move the rose and the dress ever so slightly down to preserve that element (though comparing everything to that first piece of art on the KS is a bit of an issue as different art give different perspectives and what not on where on her chest it seems the cursed rose may rest). I'd also add that most of the differences you'd see between Miriam's model and art concept come down a lot to just the natural differences between 2D and 3D. Either way, I'd assume the Customize system would alleviate any concerns a person may have and allow for as little/much exposure as they prefer.
@kowakaki: Play nice. You can disagree with Dan G whilst using less harsh language.
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