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Post by estebant on Jul 3, 2018 14:29:57 GMT -6
So when I mentioned that there was nothing to worry about, my opinion gets pretty much pushed to the curb, but others state the exact same thing, and it's suddenly okay lol I think its absolutely something to worry about until the developers talk to us.
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Post by dareka on Jul 3, 2018 14:56:26 GMT -6
So when I mentioned that there was nothing to worry about, my opinion gets pretty much pushed to the curb, but others state the exact same thing, and it's suddenly okay lol A closer look at the situation calmed (some of us) down. Sorry!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 15:20:31 GMT -6
...Also for the record, I don't like MN9 as a whipping boy. Aye. Quality of the game aside, I can't help but feel like Mighty No. 9 is becoming the new Dark Souls in terms of games that uncreative people compare everything to because their reference pool is too small.
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Post by Ciel on Jul 3, 2018 15:28:06 GMT -6
So when I mentioned that there was nothing to worry about, my opinion gets pretty much pushed to the curb, but others state the exact same thing, and it's suddenly okay lol I'm still not convinced though.
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Post by XombieMike on Jul 3, 2018 15:43:10 GMT -6
I just said how unhelpful it is to use other games as a reference and what do you guys do? Son, I am dissapoint. Shelf the Ori and MN9 talk and get back to discussing the graphics in ways that can be digested by the team. Plenty of great examples are in this thread. Let's get it back on track, please.
For example,
The cannon looks like it has a major retexture. I can understand the highlight around the cannon to make it more obvious you need to interact with it to continue the level, but the texture it's self is really bad when compared to 2016. Also, I think highlighting it with that outline kind of defeats the point of the puzzle and robs us of the reward of figuring it out. Same with the crate.
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Post by dareka on Jul 3, 2018 16:03:46 GMT -6
...Also for the record, I don't like MN9 as a whipping boy. Aye. Quality of the game aside, I can't help but feel like Mighty No. 9 is becoming the new Dark Souls in terms of games that uncreative people compare everything to because their reference pool is too small. That may be; but in the case of Bloostained, though, there are several similarities which will inevitably cause comparisons to MN9, I think. 1. High-profile Japanese developer leaves company that abandoned franchise to create spiritual successor. 2. Breaks Kickstarter records, vastly exceeding it's funding goals. 3. Exceeding funding goals causes a sudden bloat of feature set as stretch goals. 4. Is promised for multiple platforms of varying hardware capabilities. 5. Is delayed over a year. 7. Ben Judd is involved. 8. Inti Creates is/was involved. Key differences so far 1. High-profile Japanese developer is nicest-man-on-earth, as opposed to a conceited a**h*le. 2. Biggest delay and developer switch were communicated to backers in a timely, adequate fashion. 3. Save for a few missteps (*cough* delaying the demo the day it was supposed to launch, *cough*) communication has been mostly on-point. 4. Gameplay has been very well received so far. Some people might add "disappointing graphics" to the things they have in common, but I'll personally reserve my judgement until I see the finished product. While it's certainly not pushing modern GPU hardware, if it looks like updates 7 to 10, I'd say it's pretty good looking, actually. All it needs is a higher-poly/texture resolution Miriam model for the PC/PS4/Xbox One versions, and we're good.
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Post by XombieMike on Jul 3, 2018 16:23:55 GMT -6
For the third time... please get this topic back on track. Thanks.
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Post by Enkeria on Jul 3, 2018 16:46:41 GMT -6
XombieMike Would buy Ori if it was any "fun" to play. Looks beautiful but meeh. I want good gameplay. This is why I like Tetris and Super Mario Bros 3.
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Post by dareka on Jul 3, 2018 17:26:48 GMT -6
For the third time... please get this topic back on track. Thanks. Alright, Mike, no problem. For the record, though, what I believe you're referring to as the first time, didn't seem like a direct instruction to avoid mentioning other games, and the second time was posted while I was writing my own message. To me, there was no warning at all, especially since you yourself commented on other games.
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Post by Motoko on Jul 3, 2018 19:32:14 GMT -6
Well I guess there's always going to be those negative nancy's at any party
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Post by Motoko on Jul 3, 2018 22:00:24 GMT -6
Also, did everyone forget about this comment? "We also worked on the ship stage that you've seen already, and added environmental effects like dripping water to create a greater sense of movement in the environment.
We've been doing a lot of work like that lately, adding interactive detail to areas that makes them more interesting to explore on your way to the boss. Some of that added detail won't be included in the beta, but we hope to share it with everyone as soon as possible."
For some reason I can't share the source of this comment without it embedding some weirdness to kickstarter IF you pm me, I can just send it that way if anyone wants proof of this comment. Thanks! Btw I am sharing this from a steam comment from User "Honorable_D"
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Post by RichterB on Jul 4, 2018 0:13:53 GMT -6
....Son, I am dissapoint...The cannon looks like it has a major retexture. I can understand the highlight around the cannon to make it more obvious you need to interact with it to continue the level, but the texture it's self is really bad when compared to 2016. Also, I think highlighting it with that outline kind of defeats the point of the puzzle and robs us of the reward of figuring it out. Same with the crate. The new highlight around the cannon is way too heavy-handed and mood-breaking, I agree. It's overkill. Same with the crate, yes. That's going to be in my feedback review when I get to it. Finally got around to completing the demo. Speaking of which, is it better to start a new thread like many users have, or post in Question's original thread here: bloodstainedfanforums.com/thread/3151/welcome-beta-backer-feedback-begin?page=1 (?)
(And my apologies about the earlier gaming comments. It wasn't my sole purpose by any means in that post (I was much more concerned about the boat getting its wooden look back and the organic sections of rocks and such looking more natural in their flow), and I was just reiterating the fact that video games are not "one-size-fits-all," which you sort of stated yourself. It was a vote of confidence for what BS:RotN has been doing. But that'll be it for me on that front.)
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 4, 2018 0:53:50 GMT -6
Also, did everyone forget about this comment? "We also worked on the ship stage that you've seen already, and added environmental effects like dripping water to create a greater sense of movement in the environment.
We've been doing a lot of work like that lately, adding interactive detail to areas that makes them more interesting to explore on your way to the boss. Some of that added detail won't be included in the beta, but we hope to share it with everyone as soon as possible."
For some reason I can't share the source of this comment without it embedding some weirdness to kickstarter IF you pm me, I can just send it that way if anyone wants proof of this comment. Thanks! Btw I am sharing this from a steam comment from User "Honorable_D" No need to wonder or go looking, it's from the June 1 update. You were probably getting grief with the URL because the forums generate a card for the main KS page, but you can circumvent that with this (hyperlink button): Update 68(7 paragraphs down under "Development Update")
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Post by freddythemonkey on Jul 4, 2018 2:37:20 GMT -6
Since when providing criticism to the graphics supported by screenshots and genuine concerns is being "negative nancys"? This thread as a whole is as thorough as criticism can be for the majority of the posts.
I'm am avid supporter of the game, I defended it a lot in the past and despite being convinced that this will be a valid game in the end I have to admit that this demo kinda disappointed me all things considered. Not even just in the graphics, but let's stay on topic.
Honestly I can understand the whole "don't worry, the graphics aren't final", it's fair enough, but we're supposedly close to the release date and at this point I'd like some concrete reassurance about the graphica. Yeah, "they will get better", but it's not 2015 anymore. It's been a while since the early stage of development, and if what I see appears to be worse than before (I preferred the 2016 demo in both visuals and feel of the controls) then a "don't worry about it" isn't enough for me anymore. I WILL be worried until I see the game itself being better from that point of view.
I am also worried because I see problems in this game and I know that a lot of resources will be directed to developing versions on vastly different platforms and bonus modes that have pretty much nothing to do with core gameplay I'd like from IGAvanias. But that's another matter entirely.
My admiration for Igarashi is unwavering. I like the people involved in the project, and I especially like Angel for doing a pretty much spot on job on communication and being more of a friend to this community than "the PR guy". I don't express concern and disappointment lightly because I genuinely care about these people and I dislike doing something that can be interpreted as sh*tting on their job, but I can't deny that this demo that I eagerly anticipated has for the most parr fueled my concerns instead of reassuring me.
I think it's a very serious matter and this section is invaluable to let the team know. I understand defending a project we love and probably have spent a lot of money on, but please don't mistake criticism and concerns for gratuitous negativity. It's not like that.
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Post by Fuchigane on Jul 4, 2018 7:37:57 GMT -6
Since when providing criticism to the graphics supported by screenshots and genuine concerns is being "negative nancys"? This thread as a whole is as thorough as criticism can be for the majority of the posts. I'm am avid supporter of the game, I defended it a lot in the past and despite being convinced that this will be a valid game in the end I have to admit that this demo kinda disappointed me all things considered. Not even just in the graphics, but let's stay on topic. Honestly I can understand the whole "don't worry, the graphics aren't final", it's fair enough, but we're supposedly close to the release date and at this point I'd like some concrete reassurance about the graphica. Yeah, "they will get better", but it's not 2015 anymore. It's been a while since the early stage of development, and if what I see appears to be worse than before (I preferred the 2016 demo in both visuals and feel of the controls) then a "don't worry about it" isn't enough for me anymore. I WILL be worried until I see the game itself being better from that point of view. I am also worried because I see problems in this game and I know that a lot of resources will be directed to developing versions on vastly different platforms and bonus modes that have pretty much nothing to do with core gameplay I'd like from IGAvanias. But that's another matter entirely. My admiration for Igarashi is unwavering. I like the people involved in the project, and I especially like Angel for doing a pretty much spot on job on communication and being more of a friend to this community than "the PR guy". I don't express concern and disappointment lightly because I genuinely care about these people and I dislike doing something that can be interpreted as sh*tting on their job, but I can't deny that this demo that I eagerly anticipated has for the most parr fueled my concerns instead of reassuring me. I think it's a very serious matter and this section is invaluable to let the team know. I understand defending a project we love and probably have spent a lot of money on, but please don't mistake criticism and concerns for gratuitous negativity. It's not like that. Logged in just to upvote and to quote this. I made a thread on Reddit so people could participate in this discussion. Not because I didn't enjoyed the game and wanted to bad mouth it, but because I wanted everyone's voice to be heard. The game, IMHO plays great, but the graphics sure are lacking, not on par to what was expected. We want this game to succeed, to become a staple in Igavanias, so Iga can make more of it, and other producers and companies as well. Thank you Freddy for your words, I stand behind them as well.
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Post by dietsoap on Jul 4, 2018 7:45:39 GMT -6
As someone who thinks the game looks great even in it's current form, I have to back Freddy here. Even if I don't share in the concerns personally, it's not right to disregard all this thoughtful criticism as being "negative". Everyone is here because they have affection for this project and respect the team, never forget that.
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Post by Overlord on Jul 4, 2018 8:25:59 GMT -6
Personally, graphics are about as low on the list of priorities as it can get. I would take Curse of the Moon graphics and perfect Metroidvania gameplay over the concept art and poor gameplay every single time. However, that's clearly not how it works for many people. You're kidding yourself if you think graphics don't sell games, and that this isn't a vitally important subject. You see it all the time. Your "AAA" games always prioritize graphics. Anyone that thinks this type of talk is pure negativity, I suggest you stop and really think about the situation. These people are clearly submitting their feedback and trying to help. Being positive isn't going to result in a great game. Being honest certainly could though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 8:57:47 GMT -6
In my experience, the most memorable games are those whose worlds are filled with "atmosphere" – that mysterious, intangible, ubiquitous presence of something. The earlier screenshots convey more of that atmosphere, that special something that makes you wonder what caused the room to look this way. Something happened there in the past. Someone was in this room before. But was it five years ago, or five minutes? That is the kind of curiosity that the castle should evoke. Backgrounds should suggest things about the game world. Details can fill in gaps in your knowledge of the situation.
Each screenshot tells a story. My immediate reaction to the three screenshots was this: Jan 2016 – There has been a recent tragedy in this rich, ornate room. I must be wary. June 2017 – There is something eerie about this ominous room. I should not linger here; I must press on. June 2018 – There are platforms in the middle of the room. I can climb them.
IGA has always created excellent atmospheres in his works. I must believe that my response to June 2018 is a reaction to a "work in progress" that will not apply to other portions of the castle in its finished state.
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Post by RichterB on Jul 4, 2018 14:06:50 GMT -6
Speaking of graphical changes, I want to point out the Minerva's hidden map room's differences. This was one of my favorite rooms in the 2016 Demo, and the 2018 Demo really downgraded it in many respects. This may just be further proof of procedural generation effects not being used in the 2018 Demo; yet, it does seem as if some structural changes were made as well. Some changes might be marginally better, but as a whole, I'm not sure. My gut says 2016 gave me a better feeling, but it's hard to know when so many of the effects are different. The default centering was different on windowed mode in the two demos, and I forgot to turn off the in-game map, but nevertheless, take a look: 2016 (DEFAULT WINDOWED MODE) 2018 (DEFAULT WINDOWED MODE)A lot is going on here... -The nautical wall maps (and related paraphernalia) are completely different in detail and color. -The lighting is a lot warmer and less creepy in 2018 compared to 2016. -The wooden border in 2016 had more components to it and was less blocky. -The corner arches and fixed metal work in 2016 were more elaborate. -The wood looked more textured like wood in 2016 (weathered/rotting wood at that) and less like molding putty. -The purple lantern was in front of the support beam in 2016. -The 2018 Demo seems to have a bit more spatial depth into the background, pushing items like the barrels further back and sinking in the map space. -The 2018 Demo has a somewhat strange light cast on the left corner of the wall map. -The 2018 treasure chest is super bright and clean, perhaps for clarity of usage, but it sort of breaks the mood a bit. -The 2016 ropes have textures/grooves on them, the 2018 ones do not. -The 2016 purple lantern has more of a metal chain-link attaching it to the ceiling. -The floor perspective seems different. -The structure of the beams on the ceiling are arranged differently; each has merits. EDIT: The pics should be working correctly now.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 4, 2018 17:31:35 GMT -6
@ghost I do think that the design choice of more obvious platforms was certainly intentional. A lot of feedback from before and as was seen from live gameplay was players completely missing where they could jump on a platform. I've mentioned it before, but having too much going on in the background, high saturation/detail in a 2.5 level can confuse the player's eyes and perception of what they're looking at/need to do. It's certainly a balance. edit: Note on that, I myself had no trouble seeing platforms in the 2016 demo but the playthroughs of others' I remember missing them completely (that being mostly the galleon platforms right before where the crate is now). RichterB Yep, even with playing the demo live myself I made the comment straightaway that I thought that room originally looked better. I do comment on most of the rest of them looking great, though.
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