Miriam is bustier than in the original Kickstarter

The world needs more Brock Samson!

I'd have to agree with what Cecil, jboogieg, and RVMcypress_grave, and gunlord500 are saying. Yeah, we all want to have fun with Bloodstained, discuss little things, and be respectful towards each other, but some of the more recent posts felt like shouting conspiracy theories out loud during a water balloon fight.



I'd have to agree with that. Even with what Cale said about the bustier and the support it gives, the anatomy felt off and I didn't know how to explain it. Hopefully the final version of Bloodstained will look more natural/accurate if there ends up being a lot of close-up moments.

Leave the boobies alone. As someone who pledged for the signed collectors edition, I'm putting my vote towards keeping her breasts the way they are, and adding in super sexy costumes.

While I agree that diversity in a lot of cases is a good thing and having more of it is not a "sad thing", calling for "more" diversity simply for the sake of having more diversity I don't think is necessarily a good thing. Sometimes segregation and/or limiting options is a good thing. Discrimination can have positive effects that outweigh potentially negative ones. And when it comes to art, so long no harm is intended from its creation and no direct harm comes to people from its creation, let the artist do their art. For those of us in the US, I find that we have kind of a bipolar conservative/liberal view point on many things, like sexualization. We all bounce back and forth about what is offensive, what is desirable, what is acceptable, and what is intolerable. Where as in Japanese culture sexualization, and even OVER sexualization, seems to be pretty much accepted as "mainstream" and just "part of doin' business". Just as much as we have multiple different views on "how the world SHOULD BE" we must also remember that other cultures have their own views on the subject that can be wildly different from our own. We may even consider them to be morally wrong views. But just because we think they're wrong does that make them so? Of course not. Now if people, property, and/or the like are getting harmed or destroyed then yes, I would hope that EVERYONE could universally agree that those things are wrong. But even that must be tempered by the decision of what we consider harm. Physical harm is pretty obvious. Mental harm not so much.

AND BEFORE EITHER SIDE STARTS A FLAME WAR ON THE TOPIC OF MENTAL HARM.... yes some "mental trauma" is necessary in this world to prepare you for dealing with those in society who will refuse to play by the rules and either won't care if they hurt you or will intentionally hurt for no reason other than their pleasure, or even no reason at all ("You were just there."). You cannot and should not coddle everyone. But by the same token, you cannot say that everyone just needs to "suck it up and grow a thicker skin". I do believe that there are people who really do not have the mental faculties to handle that kind of stress, or any stress at all. Just the same as military life is not for everyone in that not everyone can handle the stress from the threat of being potentially shot and killed at any given moment, some people simply cannot even handle being called names by those around them. Now that's nothing to say anything about how those people can be identified and given the help they need versus people who honestly, "just need to stop whining and get on with life". I do not, however, believe that the people who "cannot handle life" make up a vast majority of the public and rather, I am confident they are a small minority of the population. Either way, they should not be ignored but should also not be used as an example of the expectations that others will and should be held to.

Back on topic... If a company or artist wants to make a game with an all white cast. They should be allowed. If they want to make an all female cast, they should be allowed. If they want to make a game about a transgender transexual brothel with a cast featuring gays, obese transvestites, bulimic drag queens, anorexic cross dressers, and diabetic clowns... They should more than be allowed to make that game. But NO ONE should be telling them, "You're cast isn't diverse enough. You need to add these characters to this game.", or the reverse of "We don't like THOSE kinds of people. You shouldn't have those kinds of characters in this game." Please note that this IS DIFFERENT from asking to have games made with other characters. One is asking for an artist to change a work simply to suit your specific tastes. The other is asking for a different piece of art to suit your specific tastes.

Again, I have nothing against diversity and I think that it is in general a good thing, but not diversity for its own sake. After all, we ARE all humans and in the end diversity is technically about individualism and people being different, not the same. (no, furries don't count ) ((I'm kidding))





Actually... Depending on WHAT exactly was "shitty" and how I went about making the complaint, that response is EXACTLY THE RESPONSE I WOULD EXPECT TO GET... Followed by promptly being asked to leave or being thrown out. And this is not a subpar retort. This is a statement of, "You shouldn't be allowed to force someone to do something they don't want to, just because it's just what you want." If you go to an artist for a painting of a landscape and ask for a painting of a grass field, if they reply with, "well I really don't like doing grass fields.", then that's where the discussion should end. You should just go find a different artist, or... *gasp* try painting your own landscape the way you want it. You shouldn't be allowed to force the artist to make a grass field painting simply because, "Well, they're an artist and I want a painting of a grass field!"
Now if the artist agrees to do "what you want" then you have a right to complain/critique the finished work because after all the artist, "agreed to give you what you wanted" And the same goes with the restaurant example. When you go to a specific restaurant you are not going there to tell them, "This the food I want, and this is how I want it prepared, and this is how much I will pay for it." No, you're going there because someone decided to open up a shop an said, "Here is the food I am offering, here is how it's being prepared, and here's how much it cost." and you decided that you liked one of the things they offered, how it was prepared, and were willing to pay the price requested for the food. Now if you bought cooked chicken and it was given to you raw, then yes, complain, demand a refund, demand the mistake be corrected. But if you order a beef steak, don't complain that it tastes nothing like lobster.

The same goes for the game. If you feel that strongly that you don't like the look of a video game's character, then don't get the game. But don't complain that they should change the game just for you.

Heck the whole thing with Konami falls in this category. Don't like what Konami is doing? Don't buy their stuff. And the people who do like what Konami is doing WILL buy their stuff. And so long as there are enough people buying Konami's stuff to make them more money than they spend they'll stay in business despite what the rest of us think of the products they make. But for ANY of us to FORCE Konami to change their ways, much as we might disagree with them, is wrong.

How about we just post our opinions about the topic, and not our opinions about each other's opinions just for this thread? I'm all for great discussion and free speech and all, but there is so much negativity over boobs.

Agreed.



Again, agreed. I really have no problem with folks saying I do or don't like this or that. And yes, Iga has said he's willing to list to us. But I think to an extent that's where it should end. They post a pic/description/sketch. We post a Yea/Ney and they "take that into account".

Byeond that I think it would best be kind of like the suggestions thread if someone had specific ideas. Someone can say, what about this particulare thing, and again everyone can give a Yea/Ney on it or discuss aspects of it.

This debate seems to not only be generating the Yea/Ney response but also an immediate ", and I think it/everything should be this way" response with it. That's the part that I kinda find distasteful. Even in the shaders debate, there was a lot of, "Well I like this, but I don't really care for that" but I didn't see much "I like this one thing. Everything in every game should be done this way" or "I didn't like this one thing. That should never be in a game especially this one."

I guess it was that the discussion/argument seemed to be repeatedly spilling out of the aesthetic of the game into the gaming world at large.

Looks like she always had big breasts, seeing the art.
Good, let it stay that way.

It's good that the sane option of the poll "Keep the model the way it is" is winning.
People need to understand that not every topic has two sides. There are some cases, where one side is just right, and the other side is just wrong. This is one of those topics.
Miriam is bustier than original? I don't know. It appears to be, but i don't know. And, anyway, it is what the devs want and they are right. And the people that want her bust size do be reduced or covered are wrong.
I really, REALLY hope that the dev team doesn't decides on someridiculous option like reducing her breast size or modifying her attire to cover up her breasts. That would be utterly and blatantly stupid.
Still waiting for all the commotion regarding Zangetsu sexy bared chest.

Oh boy...
I just saw this topic. I won't bother reading the rest since I think I get the gist of what happened by this page alone.

As I said in the shoulder clothing topic, this is one subject I just don't care about to throw a stink either way. I only take issue with mudslinging if it comes from either direction nor do I approve of the blatant hypocrisy of quite a few I've seen on the internet as of late. When I saw the model, I noticed they were bigger but I didn't care.(Heck, she's STILL smaller than some of the characters I've found myself playing as)
That's not why I play games and it never affects me when I do. "Sexualization" was never an issue for me and never will be one.

I've played as several male and female characters in many different games with wildly different body styles and I never once thought to demand a change for any of them. This game is a work in progress so chances are she's going to change again. Hell, she might be changing now that people are reacting to the model in the comments and in the forums.

I just want to know how the game plays. I'll cry foul if this series goes the Valis route and runs itself into the ground with a terrible game that didn't need to be made, was really bad for technical reasons, and dies as a franchise because of which. I'm still bitter about that, Valis was a kickass platformer.