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what, the item descriptions in LoS? i read them, theyre pretty cool and even though it sometimes feels like they copped names to go "look how castlevania we are", they didnt insert those randomly so its a very minor moment, and i did think the stalkery way zobek talked was off, but given other things in the game i wrote most it off as prophecy speak/returning player synopsis (hate when i come back to an rpg after a while and im like ok, where the fuck was i again?). gotta say though the environments in that one are castlevania epic, i rarely tire of replaying a level (damn the forgotten ones stages and the clock tower time climb >.<)

and the inclusion of shintoism in Igas games oddly enough makes sense, especially given the events that lead up to it like the prophecy, the actual eclipse in romania in 99, and that those who opposed dracula would likely search the earth once they knew of the prophecy trying to find any method that might work (for all we know there were multiple rituals going during the war and the shinto one worked the best), im hoping there is a war of 99 game someday and it makes use of the clues given in Igas games and is mindblowingly epic but im not gonna hold my breath

Heh, it's interesting coming in here and reading some of the comments you guys are throwing around about comparisons between games of the same lineage and how they have progressed over time yet still retain the same 'feel' more or less to an extent (or I guess with purifyweirdsoul, not even at all...), but to me, having played Bloodlines, SotN, Dracula X Chronicles, LoI, CoD, LoS and LoS2 I can say for sure, at least for me, that the Reboot feels very much like a 'Castlevania' game, in much the same way that Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas (not so much with F:NV, but I assume definitely the case with Fallout 4 based on tidbits I am reading about it) feel like they are a 'Fallout' game.

Reading the debate between RVMcypress_grave and purifyweirdsoul made me mull over the Fallout franchise, as it feels the same way to me as it does about LoS and LoS2 (to a much lesser extent, but still), it's like the charm that was present in all of the older titles is scrubbed away a bit, you would think that LoS being a reboot would allow for it to have a bit of leeway in this regard but coming from the past games into the reboot it felt like some of the magic was lost. Sure the gameplay was great fun, the scope of exploration and adventure was more then adequate and the puzzles were nice, but losing some of the little details like hearts*, as silly as that sounds, harkens back to what I mean about 'charm'. Sure, there's some really really nice references to the history and lore of the past games in the franchise, two examples I liked and can remember when I last played was the transition piece between the Dead Bog to Pan's Temple and also the Music Box.

For me the perfect example to what I mean is that LoI has the 'charm' I speak of but lacks the fluid gameplay of LoS which is one of its great strengths (even if it is a rip from GoW/DmC).

I actually really want to stress that I really enjoyed LoS and it's conclusion so far with LoS2, so the arguments kind of just highlighted to me how much I lament the changes made from Fallout 3 after coming from a 2D isometric perspective with TB gameplay and detailed descriptors for everything and graphics (death animations for example) that don't feel silly (green goop for plasma death anyone?) or just seem to cr@p on the lore (Gauss Rifle having unlimited bullet cartridge but requires microfusion cells to fire? Thanks Emil...), I certainly didn't feel like that with LoS or LoS2.

@ purifyweirdsoul, I find that to really enjoy the reboot and get into it fully you gotta remember to let go of the past and enjoy LoS for what it is, there is enough there to make it feel like a Castlavania title but feel new and stand on its own two feet so to speak. I feel both can co exist peacefully in my mind now having played through the reboot (knowing that it is a 'reboot' and not a continuation of any existing timeline and add to the fact that it feels like, at least gameplay wise, more akin to some of the older titles like LoI and CoD also really helps).

Oh and I loved the Forgotten One battle! Brutally annoying and that's fine by me!

Just to finish, it's sad to see game devs make comments like how dead the market is for Igavania type games** etc and very heart warming it is to see a project like Bloodstained reap the rewards it deserves and shove it (well maybe not shove it, that's just how it feels to me lol) to those who think this type of style of game is dead in the water.

* www.gamesradar.com/creating-draculas-castle-castlevania/

^^ See comments about dropping hearts because it wouldn't have worked... feels like they were just trying to appeal to more people to get better sales, like Bethesda has done with Fallout 3 and now fallout 4 (read the leaked info on Fallout 4, best FPS mechanics in the series, but Karma and Factions are pretty much dropped... this will be very sad if it turns out to be true)

** nintendoeverything.com/lords-of-shadow-producer-believes-the-days-of-2d-castlevania-games-are-gone/

^^ From Cox himself too, very sad to read.

Silver

Its always nice to read about Bloodstained. Thanks for sharing!

Wow, I didn't know about most of that. For me, I didn't even really enjoy what was in the demo...which sounds like it was the stronger part of the game.

Another issue I had with the original LoS was how Hideo Kojima was name dropped to build confidence in the product. His input turned out to be limited to "make his face look less like an asshole" and a random little joke enemy. It was more like they realized they needed a familiar, household gaming name to attach to the development so we would feel more comfortable about it. The game turned out to be good overall, but lacked the familiarity as well as what I consider a Kojima touch.

One other thing though, which may be another reason why I didn't so much get into the LoS saga, and is evident from your perspective and expectations: the "epicness" of it. Around that time and still now, it felt like everything was trying to be EPIC. Apparently it's a slippery slope, you can only out-epic yourself up to a point.

RVMcypress_grave by no means did I feel like you were making a personal attack on me,I'm a social person by nature and thus I am able to have debates without feeling offended as some people do,I also see your a Metal Gear Solid Phantom Pain fan,I enjoyed the game but felt it was cut short from explaining everything which was a shame since I did enjoy what the game was...(The online mode is another story since I hated how bad the online features are done)

As for lords of shadow,at least now I know what that dragon is,I know somewhat about leviathen from games like Final Fantasy and such but not in the bible terms,and actually in bram stokers film dracula the movie one scene he actually did turn into a swarm of rats,I just really felt the the whole stealth mechanic was out of place for this kind of game,I'm ok with certain stealh mechanics in some hack and slash games when it feels done right but that one felt...poor,then again thats just how I feel,I would have preffered something like dracula being weak in the beginning and then having to stick and meld to shadows to avoid certain enemies and use the enviroment to his advantage and then later be able to kill those same enemies on his own,which unfortunately never happens you can only possesses them

However unlike other people spiting the game at least I can say I gave it a chance,and keep in mind I did state before liked the first game

I played all three Lords of Shadow games and I gotta say, the first one was the good one. I didn't mind the other two but they were lacking.

I like what they did in Mirror of Fate but LoS 2, to me, was lacking. I dunno but being Dracula and being a bitch, delivery boy just didn't feel right. I could go into what I didn't like about it but I won't. Still played it. Parts I didn't mind. Loved the intro. But I prefer the feel of the first game. That one was just cool. The mythology used in the first just made the world feel like it was bigger than what Gabriel was doing. Aside from that it is a tragic Tale, and those tend to be good than their attempted continuations...

It was just a way to wrap up his "do this for me, do that for me. Now do that... Etc." type quests. Delivery not specifically but Dracula, the Prince of Darkness, is a subordinate. A position very unlike his very existence. Like he is on Zobek's payroll.

We never got to play as another Dracula. But I doubt they were told what to go do for someone else...

Well, fact wise, Dracula hasn't been alive much longer before he is faught by someone. He wasn't around long enough for his power to grow (synchronize with the castleas well as regenerate his natural power). So anyone who faces him is facing an essential 'infant' in his own right. Since some games' plots start with him not alive just yet. Or recently revived.

But even in those games there is no 'partner' or 'friend' who is pushing him to do anything. No interaction of any real kind. Whereas Gabriel does. In a kind of 'enemy if my enemy is my friend' thing. But even then, being the hitman who cannot do anything else really was the aspect that made 'Dracula' not feel like 'Dracula'. But a dude who was 'Dracula in name' as long as he was on a figurative leash. The prologue felt different than the rest by letting you feel 'Dracula' before it vanished.

Versus Gabriel who was justified in doing the bidding of others (as long as it furthered his quest). And hating himself due to being manipulayed. Gabriel is angry, which both leads to his selflessness by throwing his humanity away to fight a great evil and carries over to bitter Dracula who hates humantiy until his roughly 'sleep'. Then is kind of left out after his reawakening. To become the savior of humaniity.

It is a personal opinion derived from the constant unity of Dracula and Castlevania. Neither exists without the other. Which tells me there is a unity of power between the two. Castle doesn't need to power itself whereas Dracula does. He doesn't awaken at full power. Which follows to any protagonist in Castlevania; seeking to end Dracula for another cycle before Dracula becomes too overbearing. So any Belmont, Morris, Nathan, Soma or Shanoa is fighting a young incarnation. Perhaps the only 'strong' version of him is in SotN from Shaft's resurrection. But plot wise, that Dracula is more in tuned with his humanity than others, from his dialogue to Alucard and inquiry of Maria.

It is that Gabriel is weak in LoS 2 that allows Zobek to 'use' him as he does. That is the sense I got. From being the Necromancer, he knew Gabriel's strength before and could only assume what it would be afterward. After reawakening, it was in Zobek's better interest to maintain some kind of 'leash' over Gabriel so he doesn't go 'rogue' as his inner torment begs. But that happens anyway. However, there isn't much of a relationship between them outside of what seems kind of 'contractual'. They had more in the first LoS, before Gabriel's revelation to Zobek's manipulation. Whereas it seems more mutual in other Castlevania titles. Zobek was always underhanded when it came to Gabriel, which is why I called Gabriel the 'bitch'. Snake isn't being 'used' by Otacon like Gabriel is by Zobek. Very different situation.

What I mean by 'feel', I'll try to explain. Gabriel 'feels' more like Dracula in that he is being 'hunted' by people who choose to bring the fight to him. He is confident in his abilities and fights back against a mass of people and their tools (not that that is different than the other creatures being fought by him, but the 'cause' being the factor at play). Ignoring he is more powerful at the time, the people acknowledge him as a threat and are actively fighting him. Especially after the fight with the seraphim, when he explains himself how he 'used to be like him'. Accepting his role as the 'demon' after destroying an ancient evil that would have gone on to eradicate humanity (Forgotten One)... It just had a very different atmosphere about it. Then comes the actual plot. Being the hitman of Zobek to hunt Alcolytes, key demons and Old Gods. So has little base on his strength. But more base on the situation.

Dracula vs Humanity in summary basically.

What I mean in the end of my last post was a very basic summary of Dracula in Lords of Shadow: Gabriel fights on behalf of humanity. Becomes 'cursed' with immortality to fend off the Forgotten One. With people later hunting him down as if he didn't save those very people. This made further him bitter to the world, to humanity. The plot already made him bitter to his own situations and his own losses. Till he accepts the 'plan' to 'go to sleep' until the time comes of Satan's return. Only to fight off yet another threat to humanity. Which makes him more of a savior (again). But unacknowledged (again), leaving him to remain the 'demon' to the [saved] people.