Forge/Crafting & Item Drops

I'm not a big fan of crafting in general, because of 2 reasons:

1) finding a "useless" item that might be useful for something later will never be as fun as finding an actual piece of equipment.

2) you now need to get several drops from several different enemies for the same result as one drop from one enemy earlier. This increases grinding, which is something I would like to avoid.

Because of this, I second that it's really important to still have a wide variety of equipment that can be found directly.

I also think that it is incredibly important to always have access to a list of what can be crafted. Not a complete one from the start, but maybe have it show you what a certain crafting item can be used to make. That way you get some gratification immediately in seeing that you are getting closer to some crafting goal.

I would also prefer to be able to craft anywhere, because it becomes old really quickly to have to backtrack (AND then return to where you were actually going) every time you want to make something. If crafting is featured heavily, having only one place will result in a lit of people only going there rarely, making lots of things at the same time. Making several weapons, only being able to use one and therefore missing out on playing around with the others.

That's an interesting idea. Different levels of crafting could be quite fun.

As a slight twist to that, maybe have "normal" equipment found regularly, and then give you a chance to upgrade the weapon with your instant crafting. Maybe you could add fire element to an existing weapon as an easy example.
Having that would make it easier to deal with having a lesser amount of special "unique" equipment you can only make with the right stuff in the right place. (I'm still hoping for at least a couple of those special things being findable though).

Also, sorry for reiterating things, but the more I think about it the more I want some way to instantly check the progress of possible crafting goals.
Would people here consider it a spoiler to have access to some basic info (maybe just name and type) about an item that you only have some of the ingredients for?
I know I would just be printing out a guide if it wasn't available in game, and would much rather get that sense of progress and achievement from within the game.

I'd also add that in games with limited inventory space, knowing what to keep and what to dump when you don't know what 99% of it is for without having a guide on a 2nd monitor somewhere or whatever at all times is not fun at all.

I completely sympathize with your sentiments, but I don't think those are flaws of crafting in general, I think those are the problems that arise when a crafting system is implimented less than perfectly.

I'm no expert, and I've never really played such a game, but I think a game could have crafting that has all the benefits it currently has, without those drawbacks being so severe by greatly reducing the variety of craftable materials that can drop, and by increasing the amount required... kinda like how games often drop gold, and lots of things need gold, but lots and lots of it... I think crafting materials should have a similar system. Where early enemies maybe drop 1 material 'A' or 'B', and later on you may get 2, and a material 'c'.. and midgame they might drop up to 4 of each material, as well as a 'D'.. and by endgame, they drop maybe like 10 of said materials, as well as 'E'.... that's just a basic outline, but I mean make it so you don't need an effing unique drop for half the items in the game and you're left not knowing what this is for... with 'my' system, even if you don't know exactly what matrial 'c' is for to a tee, you DO know it's useful for a lot of things, and can approximate its value fairly easily even as a first time player.

Back on the PSX, there was a game called Vagrant Story. It had a decent craft method. Only for weapons and armor but each area discovered had a workshop, later that can be warped between for reasons I won't go into. But the game also had a secondary save feature to save inventory in a storage to maintain personal inventory. It saved the game and items and could be used as a save all it's own (when loading).

So perhaps that is an idea for inventory control as well as multiple work shop flow.

Though it might be closer to Megaman Zero 4's crafting. Look for recipes and components or wing it and just start combining. Though locating recipes can be tedious and buying them almost a waste of story item slots. While recklessly combining items to form good and bad items can be a waste of time and items. Cannot imagine selling junk will be profitable in Bloodstained like it is in any other game.

I had just put this in Galamoth's attributes thread, but it more belongs here, really...

What I can see happening with the weapon system is this, basically:

The unique look/animation weapons that we're used to from games like SotN, if not found outright as "pre-made" weapons, will be in the game at the very least by way of us making them. Say, you have a standard rapier, it may or may not have a multi-hit special attack. After a while, you gather up some drops like blessed silver, wolfsbane, a hunter's journal, etc. The journal itself may contain recipes, one of which being to use your silver/wolfsbane to upgrade your rapier to the Werebane. Different weapon appearance and attack/special attack animation wise.

So, I don't think we're looking at simple +atribute, +attack enhancements...doing just Lightning Rapier +3. Instead, there may be branching unique paths per weapon class depending on the items and combinations you have.

The same could be done to synthesize "legendary" katana that probably shouldn't be there. A Masanune, Murasame, Muramasa? Find a good base regular katana in the castle, gather up some legendary smithing items and documents of the know-how, and near end-game you should be able to have your own mythical sword. This could also be an alternative path to getting a late (or very hard to acquire) weapon earlier, and at the time you obtain the premade version, you can break it down for components that could perhaps improve the one you have or use for something completely different. It's overall a perfect opportunity to travel down a path of crafting a legendary relic in a time/place where it being there is best explained by some incredible alchemic work.

The "premade" weapons that are dropped or found could be possible with creation or completely unique, but I don't think there being item creation necessarily limits their number. So long as we're talking about named weapons with special attacks/animations, I think we're all good.

How does a Atelier-like system seem?

Different parts have different effects that can be fused onto weapons. A Vampire Fang gives a Blooddrainer ability, allowing Miriam to drain HP with attacks and skills. A Thunder Soul gives the weapon an electric property.

For fusion, just use...

Base weapon (determines animations) + Part (additional effect.)

Special combinations of parts and weapons give Unique weaponry with special stats, effects and skills.

And why hasn't anyone thought Miriam could brew potions to use?

I think that the ability to break down existing weapons into components for forging other stuff is a great idea, i'd also like to see excess shards from demons either used as a raw material for crafting or as a way to enhance a weapon with certain affinity or aspect. I do think there should be some equipment that are only found as rare drops and cannot be forged (but can be broken into component parts if the player wishes). There could also be an exp cost for forging to balance that the player has access to more powerful gear and so it does not break the difficulty curve of the game.

Seems like an interesting idea to fuse the two systems, but that might get complicated.  Perhaps have it similar to Vagrant Story where you could insert jewels into the grips of weapons for various effects.  Another alternative would be after collecting X amount of the same shard you could go to a crafting room and forge those 20 - 30 shards into an axe blade or sword hilt or something depending on the shard type and the number of shards you own.

These are all awesome ideas, but my favorite one so far is purifyweirdshard 's system... I just hope the way we collect enemy items is not like CoD where you need to make the enemy fall, move or flinch a certain way before you can get their items... I just want it to be through a drop rate system. I hated having to hit the flying bird guy in the air, jump again and steal from them at the right time before I can get that one Item I need.