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Post by Cale on Jul 16, 2019 19:44:28 GMT -6
Complaining about people complaining.... Just gonna let that sink in.
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Post by XombieMike on Jul 16, 2019 20:14:11 GMT -6
I don't think people would have been negative about this if the survey would have had an option to not purchase cosmetic DLC. I picked the lowest amount only because there was no $0 option. To say that someone can just choose not to complete the survey would be a silly way to justify that everyone who took the survey and choose the lowest amount would actually pay for any cosmetic DLC.
If I want a cosmetic skin, I'll just mod the game or wait until someone else does. Sure, that's not an option for console players as far as I know. The cosmetic stuff is tied to items, right? What if you don't like the way the items stats are? That would be wasteful.
The game really needs cosmetic item slots.
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Post by Rixuel on Jul 16, 2019 20:19:28 GMT -6
I totally support the cosmetic slots
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Post by dareka on Jul 16, 2019 20:37:22 GMT -6
Asking for more money before fixing the mess, that's developer entitlement. They are not asking for money. They are asking what kind of items you are interested in, so they can make them. If you don't want them, you don't have to buy them. It's called taking our opinion in consideration. Entitlement is whining about a publisher not giving away for free things that cost money to make. Entitlement is demanding they not talk about it until disaffected players get something else they want first. AGAIN: making assets has ZERO to do with how fast they can patch the game. ZERO.
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Post by dareka on Jul 16, 2019 20:39:28 GMT -6
I don't think people would have been negative about this if the survey would have had an option to not purchase cosmetic DLC. Could people simply not do the survey if they feel so strongly against it?
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Post by DSLevantine on Jul 16, 2019 20:44:57 GMT -6
Asking for more money before fixing the mess, that's developer entitlement. They are not asking for money. They are asking what kind of items you are interested in, so they can make them. If you don't want them, you don't have to buy them. It's called taking our opinion in consideration. Entitlement is whining about a publisher not giving away for free things that cost money to make. Entitlement is demanding they not talk about it until disaffected players get something else they want first. AGAIN: making assets has ZERO to do with how fast they can patch the game. ZERO. So now you get to define what entitlement means? it's always on the gamer's side and not the developer's side Great! I think Actiblizz is hiring community manager, you definitely fit for the job.
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Post by mourningxsun on Jul 16, 2019 20:58:46 GMT -6
Could people simply not do the survey if they feel so strongly against it? What a terrible idea.
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Post by dareka on Jul 16, 2019 21:16:44 GMT -6
They are not asking for money. They are asking what kind of items you are interested in, so they can make them. If you don't want them, you don't have to buy them. It's called taking our opinion in consideration. Entitlement is whining about a publisher not giving away for free things that cost money to make. Entitlement is demanding they not talk about it until disaffected players get something else they want first. AGAIN: making assets has ZERO to do with how fast they can patch the game. ZERO. So now you get to define what entitlement means? it's always on the gamer's side and not the developer's side Great! I think Actiblizz is hiring community manager, you definitely fit for the job. If they pay well, I'm all for it (j/k)
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Cale
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Post by Cale on Jul 16, 2019 22:16:16 GMT -6
Not voting doesn't represent people against something. People assume no one voted or that they don't care enough to be against something. You have to be very, VERY forward when making your opinion clear.
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Jul 16, 2019 23:56:19 GMT -6
Guys, let's not throw around accusations of entitlement on either side--both have legitimate points. On the one hand, more revenue from Bloodstained means more money for Bloodstained 2, which a lot of folks want to see. On the other hand, as alluded to by other posters above, nobody wants shady practices like we've seen from EA and whatnot. With that said, the weight of opinion seems to be against paid cosmetic DLC. While I don't agree with that personally, the people have spoken and it's my responsibility to accede to the democratic will of the community. So I'll tell Angel and the gang that the forum community at least seems to be generally opposed to paying for cosmetic DLC, and by a respectable margin too. However, I have to be honest, I get the feeling the decision has already been made. As of right now there are 54 votes on this survey, the official one from 505 has gotten many more--to put it lightly. If that one didn't have an option for "no cosmetic DLC at all," or an option of zero dollars for the price, I suspect the decision to release paid cosmetic content has already been made and 505 and IGA want to see which ones would be most profitable. But again, for what it's worth I'll convey the community sentiment to Angel and Question, though since I'm a volunteer rather than an employee, it's not as if I'm much more than one more vote on the forums
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Post by XombieMike on Jul 17, 2019 4:36:29 GMT -6
gunlord500 I think everyone here is fine with cosmetic DLC, just not paid cosmetic DLC.
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Post by gunlord500 on Jul 17, 2019 5:04:03 GMT -6
Oh, right, I oughta specify 'paid' My bad XD
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jul 17, 2019 6:15:02 GMT -6
Alright so this is a complicated issue with many considerations:
1. Even though it is a fact that artists working on cosmetics has nothing to do with the programmers working on the Switch port, the average gamer either doesnt know that or will just ignore you and call you an apologist. The mere mention of paid DLC while there is a port in need of fixing and other content that needs to be added will create bad publicity, period.
2. In addition to point one are the people who will fan the flames of that publicity. Just for one example: I've followed Jim Sterling for years, I know his habits, the man WILL make a video calling Bloodstained out for adding paid dlc to the game at this point in time, and if he considers it microtransactions (which people are already calling this because anything that isnt a proper expansion is now a microtrnsaction) he will make a point of saying it no longer qualifies for his "game of the year" awards because he bans all games with microtransactions from consideration regardless of how good they are.
Now obviously Jim Sterling is just one person, but he wont be the ONLY one who jumps on this if it moves forward.
3. People are going to rip into the game asking for money to fund the free DLC even though the game had a successful KS and is selling like crack. The multiple recent piles of crap from Shenmue 3 are only making things worse and worse for ANYTHING related to Kickstarter. At this point that game might end up having such a negative effect on the platform it may never recover.
Now me? I wouldnt ind kicking the game a couple bucks for a sweet Vampire Miriam set of gear, as Im assuming this would work exactly like the Valkyrie set in the game now. But I think even putting this poll out at this point in time was a bad move, they shouldnt have even MENTIONED paid DLC when the Switch port is in such dire straights AND console backers are still waiting on their IGA boss fight and swordwhip. Nevermind there are still backers who flat out dont even have their game yet still.
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Post by Aztec on Jul 17, 2019 7:34:02 GMT -6
gunlord500 I think everyone here is fine with cosmetic DLC, just not paid cosmetic DLC. I’m very disappointed in you. If there was going to be one user on this forum that was going to have his feet firmly planted on the ground and be realistic it was going to be you, I thought.
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Post by dareka on Jul 17, 2019 11:18:52 GMT -6
Alright so this is a complicated issue with many considerations: 1. Even though it is a fact that artists working on cosmetics has nothing to do with the programmers working on the Switch port, the average gamer either doesnt know that or will just ignore you and call you an apologist. The mere mention of paid DLC while there is a port in need of fixing and other content that needs to be added will create bad publicity, period. 2. In addition to point one are the people who will fan the flames of that publicity. Just for one example: I've followed Jim Sterling for years, I know his habits, the man WILL make a video calling Bloodstained out for adding paid dlc to the game at this point in time, and if he considers it microtransactions (which people are already calling this because anything that isnt a proper expansion is now a microtrnsaction) he will make a point of saying it no longer qualifies for his "game of the year" awards because he bans all games with microtransactions from consideration regardless of how good they are. Now obviously Jim Sterling is just one person, but he wont be the ONLY one who jumps on this if it moves forward. 3. People are going to rip into the game asking for money to fund the free DLC even though the game had a successful KS and is selling like crack. The multiple recent piles of crap from Shenmue 3 are only making things worse and worse for ANYTHING related to Kickstarter. At this point that game might end up having such a negative effect on the platform it may never recover. Now me? I wouldnt ind kicking the game a couple bucks for a sweet Vampire Miriam set of gear, as Im assuming this would work exactly like the Valkyrie set in the game now. But I think even putting this poll out at this point in time was a bad move, they shouldnt have even MENTIONED paid DLC when the Switch port is in such dire straights AND console backers are still waiting on their IGA boss fight and swordwhip. Nevermind there are still backers who flat out dont even have their game yet still. It may have been a bad PR move, yes - but only because there are so many people with an attitude of entitlement (i.e., "if I don't get what I want, you're evil and I'll take you down.") I know people don't want to hear this word, and I'll add that I'm not personally here to pick a fight with anyone (my apologies to the mods if I was confrontational before). But I do think it is important for all community members to be heard, and not just those disappointed by 505's decisions. After all, myself and other users want paid DLC, and what they're saying is " no, we don't want you to have it, because we think it should be free or not in there, and we'll drop the game otherwise." Well, they're free to do that, but we're free to disagree and say why we disagree. Getting into pointless arguments instead of agreeing to disagree is not good - but, imho, neither is letting only the disaffected control the narrative. If you want paid DLC, then you should say so. If you always keep an attitude of not saying anything when you feel people are acting negatively (instead of simply saying "I don't care for it, and I don't agree with the practice, but to each his own"), then it can be even worse - because they're not gonna stop, no matter how quiet you keep.
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Post by XombieMike on Jul 17, 2019 11:23:44 GMT -6
gunlord500 I think everyone here is fine with cosmetic DLC, just not paid cosmetic DLC. I’m very disappointed in you. If there was going to be one user on this forum that was going to have his feet firmly planted on the ground and be realistic it was going to be you, I thought. I don't understand your dissapointment. Why would anyone NOT want free DLC?
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 17, 2019 11:31:50 GMT -6
Alright so this is a complicated issue with many considerations: 1. Even though it is a fact that artists working on cosmetics has nothing to do with the programmers working on the Switch port, the average gamer either doesnt know that or will just ignore you and call you an apologist. The mere mention of paid DLC while there is a port in need of fixing and other content that needs to be added will create bad publicity, period. 2. In addition to point one are the people who will fan the flames of that publicity. Just for one example: I've followed Jim Sterling for years, I know his habits, the man WILL make a video calling Bloodstained out for adding paid dlc to the game at this point in time, and if he considers it microtransactions (which people are already calling this because anything that isnt a proper expansion is now a microtrnsaction) he will make a point of saying it no longer qualifies for his "game of the year" awards because he bans all games with microtransactions from consideration regardless of how good they are. Now obviously Jim Sterling is just one person, but he wont be the ONLY one who jumps on this if it moves forward. 3. People are going to rip into the game asking for money to fund the free DLC even though the game had a successful KS and is selling like crack. The multiple recent piles of crap from Shenmue 3 are only making things worse and worse for ANYTHING related to Kickstarter. At this point that game might end up having such a negative effect on the platform it may never recover. Now me? I wouldnt ind kicking the game a couple bucks for a sweet Vampire Miriam set of gear, as Im assuming this would work exactly like the Valkyrie set in the game now. But I think even putting this poll out at this point in time was a bad move, they shouldnt have even MENTIONED paid DLC when the Switch port is in such dire straights AND console backers are still waiting on their IGA boss fight and swordwhip. Nevermind there are still backers who flat out dont even have their game yet still. But I do think it is important for all community members to be heard, and not just those disappointed by 505's decisions. Right. Mainly the people that have a problem with something are going to respond/be active in this, and in most things. I can feel a shift in the forum post-release from being a place of focused anticipation to one of focused criticism. I think that's to be expected, regardless of how good the game is, but it still wears me down. The majority of fans are just contented and going on about their days or playing the game, and if/when they stop in here, remain silent at the seeming majority of people against something like this being done for the game, and most who would counter shy away from confrontation and being seen as defensive, blindly positive or whatever. It's not unlike the Kickstarter comments. Partly our fault for building up an atmosphere where we encourage all to be said, but to the apparent detriment of people who want to like things.
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Post by mourningxsun on Jul 17, 2019 11:58:12 GMT -6
I feel like everybody is getting too caught up in the weeds and throwing random personal accusations and community accusations instead of the talking about actual subject.
I don't think many people have an issue with paid DLC as a concept for this game. But what is currently being proposed is what people have an issue with. Let's review what people have issues with.
1. Paid DLC is getting floated before any of the free DLC has been released. Hell, before all the baseline quality of life/bug killing patches are done. It's a bad look no matter how anybody wants to spin it. And that's why there is so much fight against this right now. Just speaking for myself, but if this poll came out in the fall after the dust has settled, I would be fine with it. Likely, many more people would be as well. It doesn't have to do with people "liking things" or not, it's a matter of bad timing. Even if the DLCs themselves are a long way off, bringing them up now paints an ugly picture.
2. What's being proposed is five items and a shard per DLC "pack." Anything more than two dollars for a pack is going to be overpriced for the content given. And it's not going to be two dollars. If people want to buy these for five bucks a pop it's on them, but in no universe will it be a good deal.
3. Due to the lack of cosmetic item slots, the DLC items will in fact have stats. So they'll either be high level so people would want to equip them at the cost of unbalancing the hell out of the game. "Pay for these items and never have to use the crafting system again!" Alternatively they'll have low level stats and people will complain that they're gimping themselves gameplay wise by equipping the items that they paid real money for. In a perfect world these DLC items would start low level and could be upgraded somehow to be better as the game goes on, but if I'm being honest, all signs point towards "minimum effort-maximum profit" with what's being proposed, so expecting a system like that is unrealistic. So game balance is at risk of getting fucked sideways.
Personally, and like I said above, I think it's just a bad look all around. At the very least they should have dropped the first post launch "free DLC" before even bringing this up. When it comes to DLC I want value. I want new areas/bosses/enemies/etc. I'll happily drop twenty bucks for two new areas of the castle to be bolted on. Cosmetic DLC packs are not value, and just taking a wild guess at what the votes are going to point towards, I'm not really going to be super interested in playing the game with Miriam dressed in lingerie or fetish outfits in the first place.
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Post by dareka on Jul 17, 2019 13:20:22 GMT -6
I feel like everybody is getting too caught up in the weeds and throwing random personal accusations and community accusations instead of the talking about actual subject. I don't think many people have an issue with paid DLC as a concept for this game. But what is currently being proposed is what people have an issue with. Let's review what people have issues with. 1. Paid DLC is getting floated before any of the free DLC has been released. Hell, before all the baseline quality of life/bug killing patches are done. It's a bad look no matter how anybody wants to spin it. And that's why there is so much fight against this right now. Just speaking for myself, but if this poll came out in the fall after the dust has settled, I would be fine with it. Likely, many more people would be as well. It doesn't have to do with people "liking things" or not, it's a matter of bad timing. Even if the DLCs themselves are a long way off, bringing them up now paints an ugly picture. 2. What's being proposed is five items and a shard per DLC "pack." Anything more than two dollars for a pack is going to be overpriced for the content given. And it's not going to be two dollars. If people want to buy these for five bucks a pop it's on them, but in no universe will it be a good deal. 3. Due to the lack of cosmetic item slots, the DLC items will in fact have stats. So they'll either be high level so people would want to equip them at the cost of unbalancing the hell out of the game. "Pay for these items and never have to use the crafting system again!" Alternatively they'll have low level stats and people will complain that they're gimping themselves gameplay wise by equipping the items that they paid real money for. In a perfect world these DLC items would start low level and could be upgraded somehow to be better as the game goes on, but if I'm being honest, all signs point towards "minimum effort-maximum profit" with what's being proposed, so expecting a system like that is unrealistic. So game balance is at risk of getting fucked sideways. Personally, and like I said above, I think it's just a bad look all around. At the very least they should have dropped the first post launch "free DLC" before even bringing this up. When it comes to DLC I want value. I want new areas/bosses/enemies/etc. I'll happily drop twenty bucks for two new areas of the castle to be bolted on. Cosmetic DLC packs are not value, and just taking a wild guess at what the votes are going to point towards, I'm not really going to be super interested in playing the game with Miriam dressed in lingerie or fetish outfits in the first place. I think the unspoken core of the issue is this: 1) Many who want the items don't want to pay for them (because they feel taken advantage of, seeing as how they'd have to pay more money on top of the retail price) 2) Those who don't want them don't like the fact that the company is developing content for someone else, especially content that clashes with their tastes and preferred image for the brand (i.e., they consider selling cosmetic items as exploiting people's fetishes for corporate greed, and they naturally don't want the game they otherwise like to be associated with that). But the fact is people were disappointed for other, very legitimate reasons: platform cancellations, lack of refunds for Mac/Linux, poor day one patch management, late DLC, irregular performance and game crashes on all platforms, and not least of all the quality of the Switch version. These are legitimate reasons for disappointment, disappointment that people haven't gotten over (and I'm not saying they should, mind you). So, when update 94 arrives... 1) The people who are upset for other reasons pile on 505 for bringing up DLC - it's the latest topic, so people will read their grievances. 2) The people who have an issue with the DLC itself (either for 1 or 2) criticize the decision to bring up paid DLC at this time. Those of us who want the DLC and are OK with it being paid DLC, are actually happy 505 chose to ask us which outfits we'd like and what we'd consider a fair price. Naturally, we argue that we don't find it exploitative, and that wanting to make money does not equal being evil (now, if the outfits are not to our liking or end up being priced too high, we simply won't buy them and that'll be it). The idea that the timing is wrong for bringing up paid DLC is predicated on the notion that surveying players on cosmetic DLC itself is something that naturally expends goodwill... but if this is the case, then there might be a better or worse time to do it, but there will never be a good time to do it. And such may be the case for some people, but not for all of us.
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Post by saberwolf94 on Jul 17, 2019 13:45:25 GMT -6
Well, it is the weakest type of dlc compared to additional stages with new enemies, bosses and loot you can get there (like HOD) but it's up to them if they want to do it and people want to buy it. My concern is that the game is still buggy and even lags and freezes for a few seconds completely before resuming as normal when I play it even on the ps4 and they need to get on top of that instead of worrying about outfit dlc. Not to mention they still haven't patched in the dlc that should have been in the game in the first place.
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