hyugakojiro
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"Art thou prepared?"
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Post by hyugakojiro on Apr 9, 2019 19:20:07 GMT -6
Had a chance to catch up with all the new videos and articles posted about the latest build. It's great to see this game making progress with every new build. Read quite a lot of feedback about non-issues such as slow walking, etc but here are things I saw or read that I think have merit: - When Miriam attacks candles and lamps the light from them stops immediately. Previous CV games had a small flare/flame graphical effects right after attacking the candle. Would love to see this is Bloodstained. It's a small quality of life improvement but its small things like that that made SotN so memorable and would help the player feel more at home with the 2.5D look. - When Miriam attacks Valac there is no visual effect on Valac's part. When you attack Vepar her moss scarf/head cover flashes orange for a second but there is nothing like that with Valac. Maybe add a flash effect to the horns and other parts to add more visual impact to your attacks. - Look into collision detection and knock-back when making physical contact with the enemy (sharing the same space) and for smaller attacks. Certain strong enemy and boss attacks trigger a strong know back which makes sense but for just plain enemy contact and small attacks it seems there's no knock-back at all so the player has to navigate away from the enemy and takes additional damage in the process. In SotN there was a small amount of knock-back just for contact with the enemy whereas here it appears there isn't. - Revisiting the Galleon Minerva one last time, it's truly impressive what this team has done with the lighting. But some assets still could use a little more detailing. Already pointed out the rope used throughout the stage in a previous post but a few of the wooden backdrops inside the ship could use more detailing as well, especially the wooden paneling that is very light in color as seen below: Ideally it ought to have the detail highlighted in green below but even a happy medium between what we have now and the picture below would suffice:
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Post by LordKaiser on Apr 9, 2019 20:16:21 GMT -6
Had a chance to catch up with all the new videos and articles posted about the latest build. It's great to see this game making progress with every new build. Read quite a lot of feedback about non-issues such as slow walking, etc but here are things I saw or read that I think have merit: - When Miriam attacks candles and lamps the light from them stops immediately. Previous CV games had a small flare/flame graphical effects right after attacking the candle. Would love to see this is Bloodstained. It's a small quality of life improvement but its small things like that that made SotN so memorable and would help the player feel more at home with the 2.5D look. - When Miriam attacks Valac there is no visual effect on Valac's part. When you attack Vepar her moss scarf/head cover flashes orange for a second but there is nothing like that with Valac. Maybe add a flash effect to the horns and other parts to add more visual impact to your attacks. - Look into collision detection and knock-back when making physical contact with the enemy (sharing the same space) and for smaller attacks. Certain strong enemy and boss attacks trigger a strong know back which makes sense but for just plain enemy contact and small attacks it seems there's no knock-back at all so the player has to navigate away from the enemy and takes additional damage in the process. In SotN there was a small amount of knock-back just for contact with the enemy whereas here it appears there isn't. - Revisiting the Galleon Minerva one last time, it's truly impressive what this team has done with the lighting. But some assets still could use a little more detailing. Already pointed out the rope used throughout the stage in a previous post but a few of the wooden backdrops inside the ship could use more detailing as well, especially the wooden paneling that is very light in color as seen below: Ideally it ought to have the detail highlighted in green below but even a happy medium between what we have now and the picture below would suffice: That square with the wooden ledge on the 2nd screenshots points to the problem I mentioned in this thread. bloodstained.forums.net/thread/3952/problem-last-trailer-april-2019 Miriam should go over it and not through it.
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Post by mourningxsun on Apr 9, 2019 20:30:37 GMT -6
Just confirmed in the discord. Bust out the confetti everyone.
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gunlord500
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Hyped for Bloodstained 2!
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Post by gunlord500 on Apr 9, 2019 20:46:45 GMT -6
Just confirmed in the discord. Bust out the confetti everyone. Angeru saves the day again :cool:
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Post by exile on Apr 9, 2019 21:12:56 GMT -6
Great comments all around, regarding some negative feedback, as always we value it greatly and share it with the team, but some things I wouldn't worry about.
Like for instance when you hear people saying Miriam is slow. We tried making sure to tell everyone that the default speed is just the beginning (and is exacly 1:1 with SotN), that you earn abilities and equipment that make you faster, all the way from running faster to in some cases turning into a laser beam of light.
But these events can get crazy and I'm sure a lot gets lost in the hustle and bustle.
When the game comes out we're confident the full reviews will put a lot of concerns like that to rest. This is one of the few times in my gaming history that I can say with conviction that I couldn't care less what the reviews say. The most recent videos have completely assuaged any reservations I had about this game. Everything is right, unless I get insanely nit-picky. The music is spot on. The visuals are gorgeous. The animation is smooth. I like the speed. Castlevania has always had its own pace, which is more deliberate than other platformers, and I enjoy that. The only thing I could've done without are the cut scenes. Unless you have some serious resources to throw around, those are never the star of the show, and I'd have preferred for nostalgia's sake if they were just handled as dialogue between the characters. Nevertheless, I appreciate that Iga was trying something new to bring a more cinematic feel to the experience, and hey, nothing ventured nothing gained. Could be I'll appreciate them more when I play the game. Anyhow, great work all around. I can't imagine how much work the team must have put in over the past several months to make so much progress. I wish I was in the financial position to order them up some grade-A catering as a show of gratitude. Sadly, my heartfelt thanks will have to suffice. And despite my own indifference, I hope the reviews are glowing for the Bloodstained team's sake. They deserve commendation and financial success for a job well done
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Post by Aztec on Apr 9, 2019 23:36:48 GMT -6
Important notes:- Daily reminder that Bloodstained: RotN doesn’t need an easy modo. I hope you're joking and just repeating an elitist gamer meme. As long as there's a way to play the game with a higher challenge for me, I couldn't care less if there's an easy mode (and yes I realize this game has two harder modes above Normal). The more options the merrier and if an easy mode could be the difference between someone else being able to experience a game to its fullest and love it all the better. Same thing applies to every freaking videogame out there. Stop gatekeeping your videogames they don't belong to you or me, they belong to everyone. I'm not going to be angry if there's no easy mode but I wont either if there is one. Add it to Sekiro even, see if I care. And neither should you.
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Post by Aztec on Apr 9, 2019 23:41:48 GMT -6
p.s: i have an absolute hate towards videogame journalists and reviewers so please do not mind my evident hate. Calm down, not everyone who's a game journalist is bad, stop reading the ones who are. For example, Jason Schreier continues to do God's work reporting things no one else reports and doing actual investigative journalism about the bad management at EA and Bioware with Anthem and Mass Effect Andromeda, DICE with Battlefront 2, etc. And reviews are just that, subjective opinions. Everyone has one and you dont have to agree with all of them. When Syward Sword came out and evryone was showering it with 90+ scores had I reviewed it for any game site I would've given it a 6. Harmony of Dissonance would've gotten a 5 from me (worst Igavania by far) or Mass Effect Andrmeda wold've gotten an 85 for me because I liked it more than mst aparently. There's no conspiracy out to get you or to everyone hate on a game you might like (or unfortunately in my case a conspiracy to everyone give good scores to the garbag that was Zelda SS). So please in case Bloodstained gets less than optimal reviews lets keep it together and accept everyone's opinions even if we dont agree with them.
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Ciel
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Post by Ciel on Apr 10, 2019 0:12:02 GMT -6
Important notes:- Daily reminder that Bloodstained: RotN doesn’t need an easy modo. I hope you're joking and just repeating an elitist gamer meme. As long as there's a way to play the game with a higher challenge for me, I couldn't care less if there's an easy mode (and yes I realize this game has two harder modes above Normal). The more options the merrier and if an easy mode could be the difference between someone else being able to experience a game to its fullest and love it all the better. Same thing applies to every freaking videogame out there. Stop gatekeeping your videogames they don't belong to you or me, they belong to everyone. I'm not going to be angry if there's no easy mode but I wont either if there is one. Add it to Sekiro even, see if I care. And neither should you. I don't give a damn about From Software games and the whole mess regarding easy mode on their games, but this right here: is a fallacy and I'll tell you why: games don't and shouldn't need to cater everyone, and neither their creators should feel the need to adapt their creations according to what the crowd X or Y (with both don't being their core audience) wants. We actually have an example right here: there were a lot of people asking for a combo-based gameplay in Bloodstained, which of course makes no sense when it comes to igavania titles, even though such crowd had actually a lot of good arguments as to why that was a good thing to do. Ultimately, how such argument ended? "This is an Igavania game, combo-based gameplay while being a good idea, it doesn't belong to this genre, and we don't want that".
You may be thinking that I'm stretching a little bit, saying that such a difference on gameplay is just as important as a difficult level, but how much important it is doesn't actually matter. If a team of developers decided that their game should be played using a fixed level of difficulty, so be it. It's their game, they should appeal to their audience, and their audience wants it the way it is, just like we (the core audience of Bloodstained) wanted an igavania title with no combo-based gameplay. It's because of this way of thinking, that games should cater to everyone (which doesn't happens with NO other media), that the western AAA industry is creatively dead.
Just a disclaimer though: I'm not against giving the player the choice of which level of diffilcuty he wants to use, but if the developers didn't included it, then there's a reason as to why such decision was made (and to cater their core audience is a legitimate reason).
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RichterB
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Post by RichterB on Apr 10, 2019 1:01:57 GMT -6
Like I said before, I'm really overjoyed with the new demo videos (especially the platforming/obstacles!), but if feedback is and can still be taken, I'd like to reiterate these. (They are small things, so I won't hold it against the team either way. Bloodstained Ritual of the Night is daring to do things that few if any games are right now; moreover, I think the 2.5D was the right decision, regardless of finances, for how it shows depth to the gears and the tower rotation, etc.)
NOTE: ALL SOURCE IMAGES FROM EARLIER DEMO BUILDS (Also, they only show up if logged in, apparently...)
*I'm surprised to see no "pushing animation" for Miriam with crates and such, especially since she's a 3D model rather than a custom-drawn set of sprites. IGA has traditionally had characters just run into crates and such to move them in the games he's been most hands-on with, but in Circle of the Moon and Dracula X Chronicles, there were simple pushing animations that helped with the sense of immersion, and it seems to be something that would be expected for a modern 2.5D game. (This animation could then be reused to naturally halt the players movements against walls and such). Here are examples from other Castlevania entries: 30:15-30:20 here:
8:28-9:15 here:
*Some physics on the hammocks and maybe some ropes would be nice. On the Minerva, you have those hammock-type platforms that are rigged up with hanging ropes. It seems odd to me that they are so stiff, as they don't look to be rigged up tautly. If possible, I'd really like it a lot if when you stood on them, the hammock surface bowed in just a little bit under Miriam's weight. (There was a bridge in Super Castlevania IV’s Stage 2 that had this kind of effect, which I reference below). It doesn’t have to be major, just a little subtle movement. And secondarily, if the ship is swaying, I'd like it if some of the ropes and/or hammock could sway just a tiny bit, too. Nothing to impede gameplay, mind you, just a little extra touch of realism. The lanterns are already swaying, after all, and the chandeliers had a somewhat similar effect in the castle when interacted with. SEE IMAGE AND VIDEO (7:36-7:41 time-stamped) below '
*The save rooms are still castle-based on a ship, and I understand that this will be supposedly explained in the lore. But if it's some sort of "magical dimensional phase-shifting," might some sort of subtle but different transition be needed when entering such a room in a non-castle-based area like the Minerva? Otherwise, it sort of looks like a hard, bizarre transition between tile sets. *I agree that the lanterns need a sparking effect or something when they are shattered/snuffed out.
*Some have noted that the wood textures seem missing in spots. The oldest demo didn't seem to have this (and hopefully the map details from this older version have been retained; they were lost in the demo that came after it):
*Someone noted concerns about Miriam going through versus over certain platforms, and this was an issue in an earlier build, too. Platform types should theoretically change how she interacts with them in terms of going through or over, depending on gaps.
*Rope textures have been added in spots like those above that they weren't before, but the new ropes still need a similar effect, if possible.
*I haven't had an opportunity to watch every minute of new stuff, so I don't know if this is still an issue or not, but the door-opening animation was sometimes a little strange in the older demo with how it interacted with the background or Miriam. Just something to keep an eye out for, I guess.
All of these are nitpicks, and I can already tell the game is going to be great. (It might even end up my favorite IGAvania if it keeps this up.) So focus on the important stuff. But these are just some general considerations/feedback for tinier details, if desired. Keep up the amazing work!
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ReySol
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Post by ReySol on Apr 10, 2019 1:50:10 GMT -6
I am yet to go through all the messages, but I will start by saying I cannot stand Miriam yelling during her attacks. I hope I can shut it off, please?
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Brainiac
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Post by Brainiac on Apr 10, 2019 6:56:51 GMT -6
*I'm surprised to see no "pushing animation" for Miriam with crates and such...
The Crate Boss obviously destroyed those animations with its sheer immovable POWER!
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BloodyTears92
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Apr 10, 2019 7:33:07 GMT -6
Man, the improvements are so evident with regards to the visuals, and I cant stress how necessary that was.
Now when I say that I dnt mean it in a "games should always try to look cutting edge" or something, art style trumps graphical horsepower every time, but if the game had looked *less* impressive than the trailers on release, we'd have another Dark Souls 2/Watch Dogs scenario where the game gets raked over the coals for lying to consumers about its actual visual quality and it would be a disaster if the game were to get wrapped up in another controversy, its had its fair share with the delays and platform cancellations.
But yes, game looks fantastic, any misgivings the previous demo left me with are pretty much gone, and I only say pretty much because I do agree some things still need a little work like adding physics to the hammock platforms in the Minerva etc. Though her jumping through platforms isnt an issue, every single -vania game ignored having a "climbing" animation and its almost certainly for the sake of keeping the pace of exploration smooth and steady. I for one would get very, very annoyed if they felt the need to add some kind of physical interaction with the platforms considering just how much jumping and platforming occurs in any IGAvania.
And after typing out and deleting a big rant, I'll just say I firmly agree with Ciel. If IGA and crew have a nice set level they want the game to be experienced at, aka "Normal", and they decide not to add an easy mode, and it proves to be too hard for some people, those people need to admit the game isnt for them and play something else instead of demand the team add an "easy mode" post launch like some people demanded of games like Dark Souls or Cuphead. Games nearly always turn out better by finding an audience and sticking with it instead of trying to appeal to as many people as possible. Is that gatekeeping? Im willing to admit it probably is, but if the easiest mode is "normal" and someone cant beat the game on normal and complains there isnt an easier mode, I'll be happy to stand at that gate and suggest they go play something else instead of demand the devs cater to them. My opinion was the same when FROMsoft never added an easy mode to the Soulsbourne games, when Cuphead stayed the course, and its why I was so damn happy Fire Emblem Echoes removed the Casual modes from earlier 3DS titles.
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Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
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Post by Pure Miriam on Apr 10, 2019 9:33:07 GMT -6
Gematsu gameplay of the new build. Not much but, it is fun. And yes, Miriam's hair is moving.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 10, 2019 10:03:36 GMT -6
I am yet to go through all the messages, but I will start by saying I cannot stand Miriam yelling during her attacks. I hope I can shut it off, please? Per Angel's interview in London, he says they're definitely working on that (he brings it up on his own, no prompt from the interviewer).
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Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
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Post by Pure Miriam on Apr 10, 2019 10:04:42 GMT -6
Some of her yelling is fun to hear.
Man, she SCREAMS "VEPAR!" when using Vepar Shard, as if she is commanding that beast. Isn't that BADASS enough?
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Post by LordKaiser on Apr 10, 2019 11:35:01 GMT -6
Is not that she screams when she attacks, it's her voice I think.
I do hope the game have dual audio.
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Post by Aztec on Apr 10, 2019 12:20:45 GMT -6
Is not that she screams when she attacks, it's her voice I think. I do hope the game have dual audio. They’ve confirmed this since day one of the crowdfund campaign back in 2015. JP and EN voice acting and a whole bunch of other translations for text and subtitles.
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akuwa
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Post by akuwa on Apr 10, 2019 12:24:43 GMT -6
Is not that she screams when she attacks, it's her voice I think. I do hope the game have dual audio. at least for me it's not her voice I don't like, it's some screams sound better than others, specifically not a fan of the whip scream but I'm a fan of the sound the crack of the whip makes so I hope there's an option to turn off the weapon screams if you're concerned about dual audio it has already been confirmed the game will have dual audio, in fact even in that last beta there's a way to swap to Japanese audio with subs (although that's a bug it does prove its in the game already)
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 10, 2019 12:33:53 GMT -6
Is not that she screams when she attacks, it's her voice I think. I do hope the game have dual audio. They’ve confirmed this since day one of the crowdfund campaign back in 2015. JP and EN voice acting and a whole bunch of other translations for text and subtitles. And not just this LordKaiser, even in the demo itself by just hitting all four shoulder buttons you can in real time switch between JP and EN audio.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Apr 10, 2019 13:06:24 GMT -6
Miriam's speed. okay, this is something that has never bothered me and i would never complain about such a stupid thing but in this level where the camera is zoomed out and evrything looks big its hard to ignore that Miriam does look really slow. im guessing the player will have access to a speed boost of some kind by the time this area can be entered so im not really worried. Items and skills will make her faster than Alucard. Her normal speed is as Alucard. We have tested it. Dashing were also visible in very early footage, something people rarely talk about, which I find odd. Zoomed out is needed for greater bosses, playing against a big boss and just see one toenail isn't very fun. Her speed is spot on, from first backer demo to the last.
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