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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 7:09:59 GMT -6
It definitely doesn't change the point you're making, no, but I didn't want you to think you were sold an incomplete/unrealized vision of SotN. You got the real deal there. This whole deal reminds of Diablo 1 + Hellfire story. Diablo 1 from Blizzard wasn't incomplete, Hellfire brought a number of additions, but it was made from Sierra and was an expansion, unofficial one, at that. Symphony of the Night for PS1 by Iga and Akumajou Dracula X - Gekka No Yasoukyoku for Saturn (by another group?), are something like that.
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Post by crimsonx4 on Jun 2, 2018 9:51:22 GMT -6
Not sure Succubus does either. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who absolutely loves lorebreaking extras in games. Put Miriam in Mighty No. 9's outfit for all I care, it's all for fun! This is a callback to when games were fun and not all trying to be super immersive no fun completely serious worlds. As such, I think it's okay to get away with things that don't make too much sense, at least for items not central to the plot. And Valkyries are awesome! They're angels... with armor!
The succubus fits do to medival judeocristian lore, vampires, Castlevania, and Succubi are gothic. Valkyries come from Nordic and “Viking” culture, not really gothic and definitely not judeocristian. Your example of angles with armor makes the Valkyrie a bit awkward since there was already an angel in the poll. Also I’m not a fan of lore breaking content nor do I find “lol random” humor to be fun, even less for it to be a good form of humor. Specially for games like Castlevania and Bloodstained which should and did take themselves seriously. Since that’s a main part of the gothic appeal. Each thing has it’s place and Bloodstained just like Castlevania shouldn’t be a joke. It should actually take itself seriously with it’s world and lore to make us actually care for it. That’s why I invested and believed in this game. It’s a good sign of professionalism as well. Small cameos aren’t a problem, but when a game becomes full of inconsistencies, and product placements that is when it becomes part of the problem. There is nothing fun or respectful in that.
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Post by golgom93 on Jun 2, 2018 11:17:09 GMT -6
I find it very strange that people want Co-op/Multiplayer. The game is very much designed around a single player experience. maybe people are just clamouring for Harmony of Despair to come back in some form. Arsenical I know why I voted for Non-Backers to get the content at some point; because perma-locked content sucks. Little story for you, I actually had to contact Koei Tecmo to get DLC that wasn't (and still isn't) on the store. they gave it to me immediately and I said I was more-so asking for them to put it on the store so that I, or anyone else interested in it, could buy it. they still haven't done that, and there are plenty of their games and others that do this, and most of it isn't just cosmetic either.
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Post by UngweLianti on Jun 2, 2018 11:18:03 GMT -6
UngweLianti I could be wrong but, I honestly don't know how much sympathy your going to get arguing that your scalping profits will be cut into if they decide to make this content public, I know it was brought up before by someone that we should actually work to PREVENT scalpers hoarding copies of the game for collectors that will never open the box. It isn't really helping the cause so much as it is helping your bank account. To be clear you payed for it and what you do with it is your choice. But speaking personally I don't really see it as a point against making the content public. Buying and trading goods at a mark up is a risk and the markets not going to flow just to keep you rich. You should still have some goodies like keychains and tats and buttons to include with your purchase to temp any collectors. Well, I understand that way of thinking. But I could also be wrong, but I kind of have an idea that the KS exclusive (more expensive) copies wouldn't be purchased if you didn't make them Exclusive, not at all in the same amount anyways. Because it was a Crowdfunding project, to get as much funds as possible it's quite important to keep the Exclusive stuff Exclusive because you will lose trust otherwise. Might be a bad example, but what makes a change of the content in a specifically named "KS Exclusive copy of the game with it's content" any different to say, Opening up the IGA ring for mass production once the game is released? So those who backed for 5000dollar or whatever it was gets nothing what they paid for. Now you can buy the ring for 100 dollar. Just an example, might be considered a bad one but still in the same kind of area. You simply can't ask for crowdfunding offering special stuff and then making them UNspecial when there's no option to get out of the deal anymore, it's just not cool. There are shops trying to make a living on collectible items/games that are actually buying a bunch to sell for more, and there's really no difference in buying special items to sell with a gain or any items for that matter to earn on it. EVERY business/shop/company do that, So why can't private persons do the same? Buy for less and sell for more, that's how the world works. Shouldn't be something a developer should be bothered about at all, because that's exactly what the resellers do anyways. They buy for less and sell for more, and those resellers also buy collectors editions and sell for more once they're starting to get more hard to find in the world. It's a matter of Exclusivity, if you want exclusive stuff people tend to pay more, which makes others want to make a living out of it or at least earn a little bit of extra $$$ If it wasn't possible to do that, then there's no point in anything that cost money. A game developer should praise this and embrace it rather then the opposite. They will sell more copies of the special edition/Pre release/extra content copies thus making their budget higher and can make a better game. They would get less if there was nothing special with it, even if people would like to support the game. Why break your bank if you get nothing more then the game for it? Backing is pretty much the same as Investing in a game, or should be considered as such, it's not really because you don't get revenue from it. But letting your backers (Investers) have the possibility to earn some on special bonuses once a game is released is a great way to show appreciation for the investors that wont be getting nothing else then what they paid for. At the end of the day, I don't think it neither is nor should be up to a developer to decide the after market value for a product they have produced. It's up to the consumers to decide, so by changing content and such which was initially suppose to be in a certain way BEFORE release, but after there's any chance to pull your "investment" out, is just not something I think a Game developer should be doing. Especially for the reason of stopping people from Harvesting special edition boxes to sell for more eventually, because what damage does that do to the developers? Nothing what so ever, they might just sell a shitload of more copies. Think it got a little mixed and confusing now, but hope it's more clear and easy to understand then it feel like it is (very hot, sweating and tired)
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Post by Cranium on Jun 2, 2018 11:22:15 GMT -6
TLDR: Keep something exclusive but make it less than a boss + a weapon. Edit: It could also be a skin, but a (single) skin would be on the lighter side of exclusives. Still much better than nothing though. I find this to be an even worse solution because #1 people will still cry and moan about not getting the skin and #2 it would still mean the originally promised reward was a lie. Also, I don't remember the tier difference, but I'd hardly consider a single skin (one not all backers may even want) worth paying up an additional tier to receive it.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 2, 2018 11:39:28 GMT -6
The survey was open to everyone. It was put on every media outlet and even had some external articles written about it. Anyone that had a Google account and was interested could take it. How do you mean? The survey was taken while the pledge manager was still up. It ran from 4/19 to 5/1. Pledging closed 5/14, platform change 5/18. They actually announced that the slacker backing would be closing during the survey period. Also, "items with special effects" "meet Dominique" I'm interested in this I mean, The result from the survey came now, pledgemanager ended 2 weeks ago. That means that probably a lot of people had to consider the fact that quite important things might change AFTER you buy some extra copies or not. Ie. The BACKER EXCLUSIVE digital bonuses that was suppose to be only for backers, as the name for that bonus is quite obvious. Tried to quote but not working, I mean the obvious.free for all AFTER the pledgemanager is closed, well then you have been fooled/tricked to believe it would be locked to backers only. That's what they went out with during the kickstarter, that's what it's been saying on the pledgemanager all along. KICKSTARTER backer exclusive content ONLY. . Can't see how this was difficult to see, my point I mean. It was difficult to see because you said "they should have come out with this survey" rather than "they should have shown the results". My post was pointing out that they did come out with the survey during that time because that seemed to be how your post was worded and why I asked you what you meant. Regardless, this has been a topic in the community for a while now. It wasn't exactly brought up out of the blue, and I think that your fellow backers and fans are just as much a deciding factor if anything here (because we don't know if this actually decides anything) since they're the ones that voted for changes in exclusivity.
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Post by Cranium on Jun 2, 2018 11:44:00 GMT -6
Your posts always trigger me... I'm not going to retaliate, but I just want to point it out I'm like 99.99% it has nothing to do with your actual arguments and pretty much everything to do with your profile picture. The gif of a huffing, puffing, angry man in glasses gives the subconscious impression that you're always unleashing a magnificent keyboard warrior fury every time you post your distaste with something, despite how rational your arguments tend to be. It's not a big deal or anything, but I do wonder if you have that effect on others you argue with on the forum. I think the avatar just kind of gives a false impression behind your sentiments. Trying to say this in a respectful manner— I have nothing against you. I just tried to break down why I was feeling the way I was about something and thought it might help you to know of that side effect.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 2, 2018 12:40:48 GMT -6
The succubus fits do to medival judeocristian lore, vampires, Castlevania, and Succubi are gothic. Valkyries come from Nordic and “Viking” culture, not really gothic and definitely not judeocristian. Your example of angles with armor makes the Valkyrie a bit awkward since there was already an angel in the poll. Also I’m not a fan of lore breaking content nor do I find “lol random” humor to be fun, even less for it to be a good form of humor. Specially for games like Castlevania and Bloodstained which should and did take themselves seriously. Since that’s a main part of the gothic appeal. Each thing has it’s place and Bloodstained just like Castlevania shouldn’t be a joke. It should actually take itself seriously with it’s world and lore to make us actually care for it. That’s why I invested and believed in this game. It’s a good sign of professionalism as well. Small cameos aren’t a problem, but when a game becomes full of inconsistencies, and product placements that is when it becomes part of the problem. There is nothing fun or respectful in that. Because it's an angel... with armor! But that was more of a joke. Castlevania had Dracula, Frankenstein's Monster, Medusa and Alastor is Greek, Agni is Hindu, Arahabaki is Japanese, Artibatirae is Roman, Balor is Celtic... I'm reading off an extensive list here of cultural origins of Castlevania's enemies... castlevaniadungeon.net/history/monstermyth.htmlAs you may find out, the franchise had long been an amalgamation of different cultures and mythologies. It's nothing new to it. "Castlevania shouldn't be a joke," okay, but it had no problem at all borrowing elements from all sorts of mythologies. It also had a ton of anachronistic food items— tons of ones that hadn't been invented yet as of SotN, and ones that wouldn't have been possible in the region at that time period. "It should actually take itself seriously with it’s world and lore to make us actually care for it." Then it wouldn't make sense to put Miriam in a Succubus costume. Sure, Succubi exist in the mythology, but it would make zero sense for Miriam to dress as a succubus in the lore. Giving her a succubus costume would just be a fun bonus. It's really no different. And I'm not saying the game should go full Dead Rising or Saints Row on us or anything, but a little bit of bonus here and there isn't going to kill the seriousness of the main game. The Axe Lord armor in Symphony of the Night wasn't very serious. Alucard got pissed off wearing the thing and could barely jump. Unlocking 8-Bit Simon in some of the later Castlevania games wasn't very serious either. Hiding pot roast or macaroni and cheese in the walls isn't very serious either. It's okay to have some levity once in a while. And Valkyrie armor really isn't up there in the joke caliber. Cranium Huh.......... Neat. Thanks for the context!
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Post by roguedragon05 on Jun 2, 2018 14:34:31 GMT -6
TLDR: Keep something exclusive but make it less than a boss + a weapon. Edit: It could also be a skin, but a (single) skin would be on the lighter side of exclusives. Still much better than nothing though. I find this to be an even worse solution because #1 people will still cry and moan about not getting the skin and #2 it would still mean the originally promised reward was a lie. Also, I don't remember the tier difference, but I'd hardly consider a single skin (one not all backers may even want) worth paying up an additional tier to receive it. I do agree with cranium on this point, the more complex the compromise the more people will be open to being miffed, when the point would be to minimize that. There was a thread where we talked about idea's for compromises. bloodstainedfanforums.com/thread/2924/backer-exclusive-contentWould be a good place to post idea's.
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Post by Enkeria on Jun 2, 2018 15:31:41 GMT -6
They had a great deal at the festival last year about tasty food from different parts of the world. I missed out on it! What a shame.
Good thing I can get all that food from that festival later this year even if that festival is long gone! This because I bought The GrillMeister 5000. It's very logic, yes it is.
or..
Oh man, I missed out on my chance, bummer. It's after all exclusive content during that day of the festival so its only fair you needed to be there to even smell the food. Maybe next festival! -- Clearityex·clu·sive (ĭk-sklo͞o′sĭv) adj. 1. Excluding or tending to exclude: exclusive barriers. 2. Not allowing something else; incompatible: mutually exclusive conditions. 3. Not divided or shared with others: exclusive publishing rights. 4. Not accompanied by others; single or sole: your exclusive function. 5. Complete; undivided: gained their exclusive attention. A. A news item initially released to only one publication or broadcaster. B. An exclusive right or privilege, as to market a product. Source: www.thefreedictionary.com/exclusive
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Post by roguedragon05 on Jun 2, 2018 15:43:05 GMT -6
Sharing toys
Definition: The act of sharing things that can be used by anyone in the hopes of spreading the fun and creating a better community, encouraging inclusivity, and not fracturing the game anymore then it needs to be, and preventing the work that went into making the content from being rendered obscure and forgotten in later years.
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Post by Cale on Jun 2, 2018 16:10:53 GMT -6
Well, I wonder which one was posted on the Kickstarter.
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Post by Cranium on Jun 2, 2018 16:15:33 GMT -6
Hello, my friend recommended this restaurant to me. He said he'd been here three years ago and that this one dish you served was fantastic. What's that? That dish isn't on your menu anymore? You had that dish on your menu for three years and just took it off? Well, I don't care. I want that dish and I'm going to complain to the manager of this restaurant until I get that dish.
or
Hello, my friend recommended this restaurant to me. He said he'd been here three years ago and that this one dish you served was fantastic. What's that? That dish isn't on your menu anymore? You had that dish on your menu for three years and just took it off? Well, I guess I'll just have to have something else.
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Post by Cranium on Jun 2, 2018 16:23:38 GMT -6
lie Etymology 2
verb
1. (intransitive) To give false information intentionally with intent to deceive.
2. (intransitive) To convey a false image or impression.
3. (intransitive) To succeed or excel at lying; lie successfully; show one's expertise or mastery in the art of lying.
4. (intransitive, colloquial) To be mistaken or unintentionally spread false information.
deceive verb
1. To trick or mislead.
scam noun
1. A fraudulent deal.
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Post by Whatzituyah on Jun 2, 2018 16:36:14 GMT -6
I actually wouldn't care about the skin being a backer skin. You don't see me caring for "the Mighty No. 9" game backer Gold Skin because it doesn't do anything just makes Beck a shiny gold. I know that game wasn't popular anyway but if it wasn't a skin and was actual gameplay changing content then I would be upset! The only time I would care about a cosmetic is a multiplayer game where I would see other people's cosmetics because usually you can't hide that sort of thing in those games.
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Post by Cranium on Jun 2, 2018 16:41:59 GMT -6
I actually wouldn't care about the skin being a backer skin. You don't see me caring for "the Mighty No. 9" game backer Gold Skin because it doesn't do anything just makes Beck a shiny gold. I know that game wasn't popular anyway but if it wasn't a skin and was actual gameplay changing content then I would be upset! The only time I would care about a cosmetic is a multiplayer game where I would see other people's cosmetics because usually you can't hide that sort of thing in those games. B-b-b-but it'd be cut content! You'd never be able to completely complete the game even if its %99.99
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Post by Whatzituyah on Jun 2, 2018 16:42:18 GMT -6
Just too add too my previous post I will have another example.
Think it as buying Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and not ever being able to lock it on with Sonic & Knuckles. You will never get a complete experience of Sonic the Hedgehog 3 without locking on Sonic & Knuckles because they are like two halves of the same game.
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Post by roguedragon05 on Jun 2, 2018 16:42:38 GMT -6
CraniumSince you and Enkeria Gin both seem to be addressing my posts I'd like to point out that your both using food/service in your examples which is fundamentally different from digital content taken out of the game for a select group of people. Food (or if you want argue it's a service whatever the points the same) has an expiration date and it requires to be made anew every single time it's consumed, the digital content is (or will be but I'm going to assume that the works been mostly done) finished and ready to be used by anyone for as long as they like unless they are locked off from using it. I know you've had issues with the term locked off in your previous posts. But the usage is accurate since this IS part of the game that's made to function in conjunction with the game not separately and it would have be cut out in some manner from the final product, so I'm using the term and not getting bogged down in semantics. Point being there's no comparison with your extreme examples of demands for a chef with the correct knowledge and ingredients being on call 24/7 for the rest of eternity, and this content being locked off from the majority of players for the sake of exclusivity. What your example is more akin to would be like the expectation that IGA should be available to any and all who want to pay 10k to have dinner with him regardless of his wishes, which no one is suggesting or thinks should be done. And thank you for reposting a less inflammatory response then the first one cranium.
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Post by miyalys on Jun 2, 2018 16:47:37 GMT -6
TLDR: Keep something exclusive but make it less than a boss + a weapon. Edit: It could also be a skin, but a (single) skin would be on the lighter side of exclusives. Still much better than nothing though. I find this to be an even worse solution because #1 people will still cry and moan about not getting the skin and #2 it would still mean the originally promised reward was a lie. Also, I don't remember the tier difference, but I'd hardly consider a single skin (one not all backers may even want) worth paying up an additional tier to receive it. It would be somewhat negative for both "camps" instead of very negative for either. I agree with you on a single skin being on the low end. I hope for more, and think there should be more given the promise that has affected people's decision to back instead of wait - but I take anything over nothing. Love Talking Heads btw.! Hadn't seen that video before, but I've heard the song many times.
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Post by Whatzituyah on Jun 2, 2018 16:47:58 GMT -6
I actually wouldn't care about the skin being a backer skin. You don't see me caring for "the Mighty No. 9" game backer Gold Skin because it doesn't do anything just makes Beck a shiny gold. I know that game wasn't popular anyway but if it wasn't a skin and was actual gameplay changing content then I would be upset! The only time I would care about a cosmetic is a multiplayer game where I would see other people's cosmetics because usually you can't hide that sort of thing in those games. B-b-b-but it'd be cut content! You'd never be able to completely complete the game even if its %99.99 Theirs a difference between a cosmetic skin and actual gameplay changing content. This way I can experience everything in the game that is actual gameplay but a skin is still the same character in the end and you will still be playing the game with the same amount of content as before. I never said anything about that %00.001 of %99.999! 😉
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