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Post by whatzituyah on Jun 4, 2018 18:58:24 GMT -6
While the words "Backer Exclusive" maybe a promise even if you break it or not people are not gonna enjoy the game too full extent as some backers may feel cheated in one scenario and the non backers may not have as much fun as the backer would in another scenario. Something tells me this is a double edged sword because that content could make the game that much better if it wasn't exclusive. I would have backed it but I forgot this game existed until Curse of the Moon came around and if I did back it I would still be sitting here saying "I think exclusive stuff is a bad thing!" not "I payed good money for this exclusive and it should only be for backers!" because while I want to get exactly what I payed for in this scenario I don't think I would so others can enjoy it.
If you can think past the money you may have payed and accept a compromise imagine how many people would be likely too buy the game knowing they have pretty much everything besides a backer skin that doesn't change gameplay.
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Post by Cranium on Jun 4, 2018 19:04:37 GMT -6
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 4, 2018 19:11:29 GMT -6
I wouldn't mind a DLC where you play as a character that is unplayable in the base game, sort of like Gravity Rush 2 where you play as Raven and experience her story through DLC (love that game btw). I'd be totally in favor of this. Right now, they've only promised and planned for 3 playable characters total in the base-game ( NOT counting Boss Revenge Mode). If they think about it down the line, I would personally love the chance to play as Bloodless in Story if she's ever offered as DLC. Or, heck, even Alfred or an entirely new Demon character.
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Post by Overlord on Jun 4, 2018 21:56:44 GMT -6
I prefer that they just work on a new game. I don't really like download content in general, as I don't want to keep going back to the same game, no matter how much I might love it. For a "Castlevania" game I think it works even less though, because it doesn't seem like it would be satisfying to open up the bathroom wing of the castle to explore months and months after you've completed everything else. For some reason this made me legit want to explore a Castlevania/Bloodstained version of a bathroom section. Why? I understand this, and it's ultimately the best argument for keeping exclusivity. I don't want the exclusivity, but I can't argue with people wanting them to stick to their promises. It just makes me wish they never promised it in the first place. Edit: Aha at last! I am a Loyal Familiar! No longer New Blood! For as long as I've been here it's about time I have good news for you. I have a preview of the aforementioned content, so you may just find out: imgur.com/FJ5IxHz
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Post by Arikado on Jun 4, 2018 22:01:41 GMT -6
I wouldn't mind a DLC where you play as a character that is unplayable in the base game, sort of like Gravity Rush 2 where you play as Raven and experience her story through DLC (love that game btw). I'd be totally in favor of this. Right now, they've only promised and planned for 3 playable characters total in the base-game ( NOT counting Boss Revenge Mode). If they think about it down the line, I would personally love the chance to play as Bloodless in Story if she's ever offered as DLC. Or, heck, even Alfred or an entirely new Demon character. I've always liked playing as spellcasters, so Alfred wouldn't be a bad idea, especially since it's unlikely that he will be one of the three playable characters. Though Bloodless wouldn't be a bad idea either. You know who else is a good candidate for this? Gebel. Yes, the demon lord himself! A DLC episode where you can experience his backstory in full, and perhaps choose a different route from the one he took in the main story, could be something truly amazing.
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Post by Overlord on Jun 4, 2018 22:03:02 GMT -6
I prefer that they just work on a new game. I don't really like download content in general, as I don't want to keep going back to the same game, no matter how much I might love it. This is probably just a sign of my relative inexperience with DLC, but the first thing I always think of is Shovel Knight, whose DLC expansions practically feel like new games. Of course, long nonlinear games are harder to design than short linear ones, so I can't exactly say "just do what Shovel Knight did!" To get a better idea of where to set my expectations, looking at other modern Metroidvanias is probably a good idea. Doesn't Hollow Knight have story DLC? If anyone's played Hollow Knight, how substantial do you feel its story DLC is? The only one I've played that has download content is Guacamelee, and it definitely isn't substantial. Basically just costumes and challenges.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 4, 2018 22:29:26 GMT -6
A) Even as a backer, I'm on Team "I want everyone to be able to eventually experience actual gameplay content". I'd rather leave stuff like figures as "irreplaceable exclusives".
B) I'm also on Team "I'd love to get a DLC expansion with playable Dominique since she probably won't be among the default playable cast".
Super cool to see the survey results! Thx for sharing! Here's hoping we get the top 3 choices as costume DLC (which affects on your stats/moves).
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jun 5, 2018 7:30:24 GMT -6
let me just say one thing.
Let's be realistic. People who can't experience the full game content WILL experience the full game content on a pirated version of the whole game OR with a bought game with pirated DLC / exclusive content.
Nowadays, even people who buys games pirate exclusive content if they can't find a legit way to have them. That's just a fact.
So, it's better to find a way to offer the whole content to everyone. Hidding it behind the "exclusive backer wall" is useless because everyone else will just pirate such content to play it anyways.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 5, 2018 7:54:20 GMT -6
Pure Miriam I wouldn't bet against there being some anti-piracy measures, though. If someone does pirate Bloodstained, I'd love to see if there's anything stopping the player from progressing.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 5, 2018 12:05:53 GMT -6
Let's be realistic. People who can't experience the full game content WILL experience the full game content on a pirated version of the whole game OR with a bought game with pirated DLC / exclusive content. There is no evidence that pirating the game will effect its sales. There is no evidence that "everyone" will pirate the game. There is no evidence that "everyone" will pirate it for the exclusive content. Let's be realistic, when you say things like "everyone will pirate it" you're pull that out of your ass. Also, considering how few people apparently even knew the game existed when Curse of the Moon was announced and the fact that we could still be a ways away from the release of RotN what makes you think that many people are even going to know there IS exclusive backer content? I don't think he's saying the game will suffer sales wise all that considerably, that isn't the problem/result he's referencing, it's that many people who get/buy the game completely legally will learn (through likely any favorite internet resource they like) that there is backer content, and then want to get it. Many of course already know. Videos of the game, let's plays, speed runs, just about whatever/any thing they can/will find upon release would clue them in. If we've already blown up this much over Vepar's boobs, how much more when someone searches anything online for RotN and this pops up as one of the first things. CotM's relative obscurity faded upon its actual release, so much the more when this game too is out in the wild. I believe his point is that it's a likely possibility that someone out there will be able to extract (or make an exact copy of) the backer content to be added to non-backers' games, or a full backer version itself yes. The games' sales wouldn't take all that much of a hit, since possibly they'd need the base game anyway to apply this theoretical unauthorized "backer patch", but if the desire and know-how exists out there (which both very commonly do in these situations), this would likely happen. Even so, this doesn't diminish the promise and value to backers that the exclusive content is, should be, and its promise. I still want to see it, but yeah, true exclusivity of something digital in a video game (that is also predominantly single player and also slated to be on GoG) will be shaky considering the iron will of those who want the content themselves post-launch.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 5, 2018 13:11:46 GMT -6
let me just say one thing. Let's be realistic. People who can't experience the full game content WILL experience the full game content on a pirated version of the whole game OR with a bought game with pirated DLC / exclusive content. Nowadays, even people who buys games pirate exclusive content if they can't find a legit way to have them. That's just a fact. So, it's better to find a way to offer the whole content to everyone. Hidding it behind the "exclusive backer wall" is useless because everyone else will just pirate such content to play it anyways. I kind of made the same point before (well sort of, I was worried people would pirate the whole game over it, not just the specific content) but in hindsight it's not the greatest argument. 1. Only PC players (and perhaps by the end of the year, Vita players) would have this option. PS4 and Xbox One (for the most part) players have no way to do this. Switch players probably eventually on account of it being a Nintendo system (I can't think of a single Nintendo system since the N64 and GBA that didn't get hacked all too easily.) But in the meantime, most platforms do not have this option. 2. "Criminals will break the law" isn't a reason to remove laws. 3. Piracy of backer exclusive content isn't really the worst thing. Since there's no way to buy the content, there's no loss of money for 505 when they do it. I was more worried about people pirating the game out of spite, or not wanting to buy the game at all, once they find it has locked content. Lot of people pretend they're all self righteous in their pirating if they find a business practice they don't agree with. "They did a business practice I find morally wrong, so it's fine if I do the morally wrong act of piracy in return!" There's no way to prove whether that will have a major impact on the game's sales or not, but tbh, I think Bloodstained might be boned on this decision either way. You can bet games "journalism" is going to harp on this no matter what they decide to do. Whether the headline reads: Bloodstained Is The Next Kickstarter Game To Not Live To Its Promises
or If You Didn't Back Bloodstained, You Will Never Get The Complete Experience
So long as there is something to be complained about, there'll be a few dozen articles to blast it. I just hope either way it doesn't form too many perspectives.
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Post by whatzituyah on Jun 5, 2018 13:34:47 GMT -6
Either way people will find out about exclusive content and will determine whether or not they will buy it provided they haven't already.
I might not be willing too type as much but that's because I am on a phone.
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Post by Busterific on Jun 5, 2018 14:16:45 GMT -6
I was more worried about people pirating the game out of spite, or not wanting to buy the game at all, once they find it has locked content. Lot of people pretend they're all self righteous in their pirating if they find a business practice they don't agree with. "They did a business practice I find morally wrong, so it's fine if I do the morally wrong act of piracy in return!" There's no way to prove whether that will have a major impact on the game's sales or not, but tbh, I think Bloodstained might be boned on this decision either way. I tend to think the people who pirate the game are generally going to do so regardless, and will make up whatever their justification is after the fact even though it had little impact on the original decision.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 5, 2018 14:19:53 GMT -6
I tend to think the people who pirate the game are generally going to do so regardless, and will make up whatever their justification is after the fact even though it had little impact on the original decision. This is very likely for the vast majority of them yes. I know many do tend to actually want to financially support something that they're really invested in though. That's pretty tough to pull off however.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 5, 2018 15:20:19 GMT -6
This is very likely for the vast majority of them yes. I know many do tend to actually want to financially support something that they're really invested in though. That's pretty tough to pull off however. I will say right now that I would never pirate! I respect developers products to feel that if I want something I should buy it but it doesn't stop me from getting the PC version and mod the content in so I can have it does it? Modding has always been a benefit of a PC owner and this would be no different so I don't see a point to exclusive content when in reality it really isn't on PC unless theirs a clever way to make it a tedious thing too do but even that could be cracked. Piracy even though I would never do it is no different as people will find a way around an anti-piracy measure as they have done so with every single legal Digital Rights Management. So what is the point of this promise if it could be broken by people in a community and not the people who made the promise? I don't see the point in fact I kinda feel like it's unfair too non backers but I also see how backers see it as unfair. I just think that it would be way easier if everyone had access too this content at least awhile after the release of the game. I know my typing maybe a little of a mess since I am typing on a phone but do you at least see my point? Getting DLC through unofficial means like modding it in is piracy and is illegal. I'd suggest not admitting to that here.
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Post by whatzituyah on Jun 5, 2018 16:21:14 GMT -6
I will say right now that I would never pirate! I respect developers products to feel that if I want something I should buy it but it doesn't stop me from getting the PC version and mod the content in so I can have it does it? Modding has always been a benefit of a PC owner and this would be no different so I don't see a point to exclusive content when in reality it really isn't on PC unless theirs a clever way to make it a tedious thing too do but even that could be cracked. Piracy even though I would never do it is no different as people will find a way around an anti-piracy measure as they have done so with every single legal Digital Rights Management. So what is the point of this promise if it could be broken by people in a community and not the people who made the promise? I don't see the point in fact I kinda feel like it's unfair too non backers but I also see how backers see it as unfair. I just think that it would be way easier if everyone had access too this content at least awhile after the release of the game. I know my typing maybe a little of a mess since I am typing on a phone but do you at least see my point? Getting DLC through unofficial means like modding it in is piracy and is illegal. I'd suggest not admitting to that here. My feelings don't know how to respond too this newly found information! All I say is I didn't know it was illegal and deleted the post also my other reply to start on a blank slate. I still think people will pirate the game for these things they don't have access too but me on the other hand could just not buy the game if I don't like this decission even though I bought and played Curse of the Moon. I don't see the point to keeping it exclusive besides keeping a promise that will ultimately not give people the full game and that is all. This is after collecting my thoughts trying too keep my emotions out of it as I have trouble because of a disability I have. Sorry about that! 😔 Also just for some clarification even though I didn't know it was considered piracy I never did it.
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Post by Overlord on Jun 6, 2018 2:23:35 GMT -6
If someone is so petty that they would pirate a game because the developers/publishers are keeping a promise to the Kickstarter backers, the people that supposedly enabled the game to exist, then you were never going to get anything from that person in the first place. They will find another reason to justify pirating.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 6, 2018 3:14:30 GMT -6
If someone is so petty that they would pirate a game because the developers/publishers are keeping a promise to the Kickstarter backers, the people that supposedly enabled the game to exist, then you were never going to get anything from that person in the first place. They will find another reason to justify pirating. It likely wouldn't be for "keeping a promise" but for making the promise in the first place. Some people are very strongly opposed to the idea of permanently locked content in the games industry. Hell, some are opposed to the idea of any kind of pre-order or Day One DLC, any kind of content that is already made for the game by the time its release, being locked behind a paywall much less exclusivity. They see it as literally cutting out parts of the game. I was talking to a dude on Reddit a few days ago who, despite being a backer and will be getting said exclusive content, is saying he's normally one to boycot that sort of thing and doesn't want them to go through with it. (Somehow I guess he missed the memo when he backed the thing.)
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Post by Overlord on Jun 6, 2018 3:31:34 GMT -6
If someone is so petty that they would pirate a game because the developers/publishers are keeping a promise to the Kickstarter backers, the people that supposedly enabled the game to exist, then you were never going to get anything from that person in the first place. They will find another reason to justify pirating. It likely wouldn't be for "keeping a promise" but for making the promise in the first place. Some people are very strongly opposed to the idea of permanently locked content in the games industry. Hell, some are opposed to the idea of any kind of pre-order or Day One DLC, any kind of content that is already made for the game by the time its release, being locked behind a paywall much less exclusivity. They see it as literally cutting out parts of the game. I was talking to a dude on Reddit a few days ago who, despite being a backer and will be getting said exclusive content, is saying he's normally one to boycot that sort of thing and doesn't want them to go through with it. (Somehow I guess he missed the memo when he backed the thing.) I don't blame people for not liking any of that. It's certainly nice when you can just buy a game, and not have to worry about making any other purchases for the game, even though any extra content is never "necessary". But that just shows how unreliable some people are. People say something is okay, and then don't support it. People say something isn't okay, and then go on to support it. That's why often there's no clear answer, and all you can do is what you think is right.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jun 6, 2018 3:37:45 GMT -6
People pirate games because they can. Pirated games is a industry on itself. Every single game that is released is pirated.
Also, Bloodstained is going to be released on GOG. GOG is famous for being DRM free and user-friendly on copies and installation (any GOG game can be freely copied from one computer to the other since they have no DRM or anti-piracy lock besides the basic ones).
I'm not expecting Bloodstained to be pirated. I'm just stating the fact that it will be. And when a game is pirated, it is pirated with all content.
Also, i didn't even said piracy is a bad thing or a good thing, i didn't defended it nor attacked it. The only thing i said is a fact: Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night is going to be pirated and it's "backer exclusive content" will be pirated, regardless if such content is free or not, is exclusive or not.
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