kylestien
New Blood
What is a Kylestien? A miserable little pile of Awesome!
Posts: 36
inherit
1256
0
Mar 2, 2020 22:28:26 GMT -6
45
kylestien
What is a Kylestien? A miserable little pile of Awesome!
36
Apr 2, 2016 1:08:11 GMT -6
April 2016
kylestien
|
Post by kylestien on Dec 21, 2017 9:50:29 GMT -6
Ok, so in some games like Thief, or Xcom 2, they have (in addition to easy, normal and hard,) a custom difficulty setting, which allows you to alter various numbers, effects, and modifiers of various kinds to make the game easier then easy, harder then hard, or anywhere in between.
I was thinking that bloodstained might benefit from such a feature, hopefully plastered across all modes, or at least the main one.
Some suggestions on options it could have:
Change enemy or boss health How hard enemies or bosses hit Drop rates (General or specific) Movement speed A "Baseline" choice setting for AI Change aspects of your UI Change what you can see/ add darkness or tunnel vision Add some kind of positive or negative modifers or other limitations or boons to Miriam
Anyone else got ideas?
|
|
Dengojin
Wild Rose
Global Moderator
Posts: 212
inherit
Wild Rose
1004
0
1
Nov 14, 2021 16:54:54 GMT -6
271
Dengojin
212
Jan 4, 2016 6:20:17 GMT -6
January 2016
dengojin
|
Post by Dengojin on Dec 21, 2017 9:56:58 GMT -6
This reminds me a lot of NieR: Automata debug mode which can be activated after completing the game.
I would say yes, include all of these options to mess with RNG, Enemies health/AI or even the game speed.. but disable saves as well, because I can tell it will kill the fun for those who wants to enjoy difficult battles or farm for rare items.
UI customization should be something set on the settings menu
|
|
inherit
1881
0
Oct 29, 2019 17:44:00 GMT -6
449
freddythemonkey
489
May 23, 2017 4:59:35 GMT -6
May 2017
freddythemonkey
|
Post by freddythemonkey on Dec 21, 2017 11:24:58 GMT -6
I'm not really into it. Sure, I know of the common opinion "if it's an extra option it's all good" but the truth is that in some games (such as this) I'd like to play a game that's been designed and fine-tuned (difficulty included) by the developers, without me tweaking the smallest parameters. In games such as Hitman or the one mentioned by the OP, the idea of difficulty is vastly different than the idea of difficulty for a 2D Metroidvania and this is not a type of game in which I would enjoy myself while "screwing around" lots of modifiers and options. Of course I know that for some the idea of a fully customisable difficulty level would be great, but I'm just not that type of player.
|
|
purifyweirdshard
Administrator
Administrator
Calling from Heaven
Posts: 3,789
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
inherit
Administrator
210
0
1
Oct 25, 2024 0:03:05 GMT -6
3,660
purifyweirdshard
Calling from Heaven
3,789
Jun 29, 2015 7:24:38 GMT -6
June 2015
purifyweirdsoul
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
|
Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 21, 2017 11:31:59 GMT -6
Yeah, same as Freddy on this. My opinion on it is not as strong as "bad idea", but it's not something I would use. I like the idea of everyone having a similar experience. These games are not known for difficulty and are built from their base to be surmountable by mostly anyone, so it should be fine by default. The other modes and "Nightmare" difficulty can suffice for the difficulty variety, while also still being the design intent of the developers.
However, if it's unlocked after the game is beaten normally I think that would be better, though still probably not something I would use.
|
|
inherit
843
0
Sept 23, 2019 11:30:03 GMT -6
194
allooutrick
334
Oct 21, 2015 14:22:26 GMT -6
October 2015
allooutrick
|
Post by allooutrick on Dec 27, 2017 13:47:54 GMT -6
This an idea that works well in some games. One that comes to mind is Ark: Survival Evolved as the player can customize their single player experience right down to the experience multiplier. However, for games like God of War, Devil May Cry, and other games with a definite end point and combat elements then, I believe, the ability to fine tune the experience detracts from the whole. As PurifyWeirdSoul already said, it might be a feature that's better suited as unlockable content. So long as time permits and it doesn't keep the devs from releasing what they already promised then I'm all for more ways to play the game.
|
|
Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
Fifty Storms
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
Posts: 1,908
inherit
Silver in the Dark
1757
0
Oct 27, 2024 12:45:42 GMT -6
1,287
Enkeria
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
1,908
Nov 28, 2016 17:56:45 GMT -6
November 2016
enkeria
|
Post by Enkeria on Dec 28, 2017 15:23:00 GMT -6
I had a few ideasMy old poll: "Yes, we have been talking about difficulty for a while now. And ideas are plenty. I urge everyone to take part in this thread: How hard do you want Bloodstained to be? bloodstainedfanforums.com/thread/584/bloodstaineds-difficulty if you want to talk about how difficult the game should be. This thread is about how we decide the difficulty, if we have a choice." bloodstainedfanforums.com/thread/2463/choosing-difficulty-poll
"Cheatcodes that change % health of enemies. Low, and more. Making it a extra difficulty setting within the difficulty setting in a fast, clean way. Either towards easier or harder." bloodstainedfanforums.com/thread/1502/enkerias-wishlist
"- Change enemy placement. - Add a random generated placement on enemies. - Change important item placement. - Add a random generated placement within limited number of areas. So instead of top right we have item X to get across a river, it might be in center bottom. This would be a cool mod! - More attack and movement patterns on enemies, but most bosses. - Add a frenzy / faster boss fight. Have them either speed up or be faster in the first place. - Limit the amount of potions you can carry, or any other special items. - Change a few items into something else, similar to reverse castle ring and rib of Vlad. To give smaller buffs or to summon a powerful special boss (not IGA boss). - Add bleeding attacks from enemies, which would drain health over periods of time if hit too much. Even if potions were limited, saverooms and shops could save your life. - Close the shop, everyone in the village is probably dead during this difficulty anyways. - Some saverooms (if there are any), now only treat wounds and fills you health, a few others can also save, but they are scattered. (Random placements on which is which could make this difficulty interesting as well!) - Add mist, deadly traps and other objects that either needs to be broken, walked around or just make it more difficult for our heroes to pass through, reason: More time, more of a challenge. Imagine a block of stone you need to cut to make a ramp. This while monsters are running or flying towards you. - End boss needs to be defeated twice. Second time with a higher frenzy speed and attack pattern. - From Facebook, someone wrote: Enemies gain invulnerability to certain elements" Tread about Nightmare Difficulty: bloodstainedfanforums.com/thread/745/nightmare-difficulty-mode-submitted?page=3&scrollTo=50369
|
|
Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
inherit
Ancient Legion
195
0
Aug 19, 2023 8:35:43 GMT -6
2,620
Galamoth
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
3,402
Jun 24, 2015 13:36:33 GMT -6
June 2015
galamoth
|
Post by Galamoth on Dec 28, 2017 17:44:22 GMT -6
I'd only really be into customizing the difficulty insofar as changing what the allowed Level Cap is (especially on Nightmare difficulty), and which Stats are modified at the playthrough's beginning for each character (similar to a special "Luck Mode" option or another example; like giving Miriam really high starting INT & MND, but drastically lowering all other stats).
Long Story Short: Modify each characters' growth limit, and what they initially excel in.
|
|
Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
Fifty Storms
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
Posts: 1,908
inherit
Silver in the Dark
1757
0
Oct 27, 2024 12:45:42 GMT -6
1,287
Enkeria
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
1,908
Nov 28, 2016 17:56:45 GMT -6
November 2016
enkeria
|
Post by Enkeria on Dec 29, 2017 6:38:35 GMT -6
During a podcast with Mike and Mana. I asked if we could toggle around with settings for the difficulty. Turn some thing on or off, change placements of items, making them to spawn (controlled) random locations to make the path from A to B to C more interesting.
Toggle around before starting a new game that locks it in place. Toggle speed, % of shards, boss health, your health etc.
That was my first thought on the nightmare difficulty. But then I made a closer observation and got to understand the whole process of making the game a bit better. Leaving that thought behind and just focus on actually give the game more enemies, and different attack patterns from them, and make bosses a bit more frenzy.
|
|
Nezuto
Master Alchemist
Welcome to my world....
Posts: 662
inherit
238
0
Jun 18, 2024 3:35:49 GMT -6
510
Nezuto
Welcome to my world....
662
Jul 8, 2015 12:18:42 GMT -6
July 2015
nezuto
|
Post by Nezuto on Dec 29, 2017 7:37:06 GMT -6
Too bad for such a large map size and with so much that'll be in the game making things a bit harder to implement, but I wouldn't mind the difficulty slider changing items and item locations, as well as changing enemies and castle layout. It'd be dependent on difficulty and give more of a procedural feel, but unsure that's something that can be bothered with due to everything that'd have to go into it.
|
|
inherit
22
0
Aug 10, 2019 9:52:39 GMT -6
308
ghaleon
611
May 29, 2015 8:48:14 GMT -6
May 2015
ghaleon
|
Post by ghaleon on Jan 1, 2018 15:21:13 GMT -6
I ask for this in every game pretty much, and would be surprised if I haven't done so already for this game a year or two ago. That said, I similarly have people say eww no, it'll ruin the balance, it's not good for 'this type' of game, etc. Honestly I find it frusterating because that's just not true. I mean you can not use it if you like, but you're really making baseless assumptions to say these things like it's fact. How do you KNOW that bloodstained will have the default settings tweaked the way you prefer it? You don't, you're assuming it to be the case. It's very possible that you like the game a lot, but just wish that you didn't have to spend 3 hours of farming healing drops every time you want to prepare for a boss fight in roguelike mode or something. Or maybe you think baddies need to have more health because you can 1shot 3/4 of the enemies in the entire game once you know what the ideal weapon to get early on is or something.
Also, it's not difficult to implement provided it was planned early on (and even then I can't imagine it would take a coder more than a day to do many of the features if they made it as an afterthought). Adjusting enemy placement and item layout, that in fact WOULD take tons of time, because there's no way to mathematically do that in a way that you know can lead to unwinnable situations like double jump being locked behind an area you need double jump to get at or something like that. But yeah, those would be cool features to have too if the devs are willing to add them (I still have to play random link to the past!)
People are basically saying no to a feature that realistically double (probably more) the playtime value of a game for many players, that would probably take less time to to add TO the game than adding a single boss. Incidentally, lots of games allow players to do this to some extent anyway by virtue of mods, and there are LOTS of games with mods that do these things. However players do not have the option of setting it the way they like, but rather the modder does, and the player has to figure out what mod best suits their taste, but can never really get it nailed just the way they like. By letting the game do this as a default feature, these mod-hungry players can satisfy their needs far more easily and accurately.
Even if you disagree, it's an option and wont hurt anyone, and at the very least I think games should do it just to set a precedent/test the theory if it is a well received feature or not.
|
|
Canopus
Loyal Familiar
"The rewards of friendship are far richer than the spoils of war."
Posts: 137
inherit
407
0
Aug 14, 2020 1:30:39 GMT -6
125
Canopus
"The rewards of friendship are far richer than the spoils of war."
137
Jul 16, 2015 20:10:58 GMT -6
July 2015
kaitoudark
|
Post by Canopus on Jan 1, 2018 21:58:54 GMT -6
Well, considering that several Castlevania entries had a similar feature... It might not be impossible, I'd imagine. One example that comes to mind is Circle of the Moon, and its various play modes and stat builds you could unlock. I'd like to see a feature like this act as the "difficulty", as it does tailor difficulty and add challenges for speed runs; while preserving the originally intended pacing and challenges.
|
|
inherit
1881
0
Oct 29, 2019 17:44:00 GMT -6
449
freddythemonkey
489
May 23, 2017 4:59:35 GMT -6
May 2017
freddythemonkey
|
Post by freddythemonkey on Jan 2, 2018 8:18:41 GMT -6
If I don't like it, I won't like it no matter if it's optional or not. I don't think I have to say more than I did in my first post: in some games, I'd like to have an experience that was meticulously designed and balanced. I wouldn't play a Devil May Cry game by tweaking different parameters for monsters' health and such, I wouldn't do it in a 2D sidescroller, but I would do it (and in fact I do) for example for Hitman (2016) or Darkest Dungeon, because they are a very different type of game.
I understand that some may like this and I won't tell those people they're wrong by any means. But I also won't say that anything is cool so long as it's optional if I have to speak my mind and if I don't like one thing in particular. Hell, I even say I'm not enthusiastic about the roguelike mode, because it's not something I particularly associate with carefully designed metroidvanias and I would have preferred it not to be the focus on some resources at some point of the development, and I'll always think that even though it's optional and I may not touch the mode at all. That's not to say I'm bashing those who can't wait to go for it, I'm just saying my two cents of the matter.
|
|
purifyweirdshard
Administrator
Administrator
Calling from Heaven
Posts: 3,789
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
inherit
Administrator
210
0
1
Oct 25, 2024 0:03:05 GMT -6
3,660
purifyweirdshard
Calling from Heaven
3,789
Jun 29, 2015 7:24:38 GMT -6
June 2015
purifyweirdsoul
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
|
Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 2, 2018 9:17:07 GMT -6
Honestly I find it frusterating because that's just not true. I mean you can not use it if you like, but you're really making baseless assumptions to say these things like it's fact. How do you KNOW that bloodstained will have the default settings tweaked the way you prefer it? You don't, you're assuming it to be the case. It's very possible that you like the game a lot, but just wish that you didn't have to spend 3 hours of farming healing drops every time you want to prepare for a boss fight in roguelike mode or something. Or maybe you think baddies need to have more health because you can 1shot 3/4 of the enemies in the entire game once you know what the ideal weapon to get early on is or something. Well, I can't say I "know" it will be the case, but I'm quite sure it will be because all of the other games were like that and the intention has been stated that this will not be on the harder end of the spectrum. This is a new beginning that is certainly intended to pull new people in as well as satisfy us, similar to what we saw with SotN most likely, the "anyone can beat this if they try" design intention. The difficulty scales on its own by nature of it being easier/harder the longer you spend on it, even if you were playing a game of its type for the first time. This is all opinion, including what I'll say, but to me as a standard, a game is a set assortment of challenges/experiences that someone had in their head. Especially in the case of Igarashi and his team, I would trust the design over my own preference to make something enjoyable for myself, on the aspects of both convenience and challenge...mostly because we don't know what's good for us, and definitely not initially on being presented with something we deem unpleasant. Mine and everyone else's first instinct on being confronted with something they don't like is to change it, and that is not usually the most interesting or rewarding way to experience something. The majority of players will go the route of changing whatever that thing is, which was something the game makers had likely expected people to be confronted with and have to think differently to get past. So...what is then the point of them being clever in designing those things? If we tailor or even circumvent their roadmap with our preference, everything becomes a sandbox, and the fulfillment and memory of playing with sand is a fleeting one. I'd of course take the stone castle built by the maker of castles over that. I don't think that makes someone a masochist either, which seems to be a common criticism of thinking that way. Freddy mentions games/genres built with this kind of intended from the start, or at least built with it as a consideration (as is my assumption, I haven't played them). That can work great. I would have to agree that it is also unfortunate when difficulty problems present a barrier for someone to get through a game period (but I wouldn't expect that with Bloodstained). And like we said before, past a completed save file, I think it'd be a neat thing, but available always by default means that a minority of people will be getting through whatever collection and order of thoughts, ideas and art the people that made the thing wanted their players to see. This is how I see it, I wouldn't throw true/not true into it either way. It can certainly vary by person and by game.
|
|
Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
Fifty Storms
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
Posts: 1,908
inherit
Silver in the Dark
1757
0
Oct 27, 2024 12:45:42 GMT -6
1,287
Enkeria
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
1,908
Nov 28, 2016 17:56:45 GMT -6
November 2016
enkeria
|
Post by Enkeria on Jan 2, 2018 11:39:23 GMT -6
If I don't like it, I won't like it no matter if it's optional or not. I don't think I have to say more than I did in my first post: in some games, I'd like to have an experience that was meticulously designed and balanced. I wouldn't play a Devil May Cry game by tweaking different parameters for monsters' health and such, I wouldn't do it in a 2D sidescroller, but I would do it (and in fact I do) for example for Hitman (2016) or Darkest Dungeon, because they are a very different type of game. In rouge-like games these things are fun to toggle around with. In bloodstained we will be getting a rouglike mode of some kind. And when it comes to toggle around and use a slider on stuff, why not have very few basic things to turn on or off? I mean like, "randomize enemies" ON > OFF. This would just random insert enemies on areas with some rules. It would make every experience unique somewhat. Another feature could be to randomize loot, those things that you perhaps get each run you finish, if there is such a thing as a "finish" abilitiy in that mode. Maybe its infinite until death? Anyway.. With limitations such as a mode, it could be a good way to implement a feature to change things. When it comes to just choose difficulty of the main game, I think making it more basic and down-to-earth is the way to go. Other modes can go crazy with these things instead. And those modes can also be patched on later if needed.
|
|
inherit
22
0
Aug 10, 2019 9:52:39 GMT -6
308
ghaleon
611
May 29, 2015 8:48:14 GMT -6
May 2015
ghaleon
|
Post by ghaleon on Jan 2, 2018 22:34:34 GMT -6
Gah, I forget how to multiquote.:
@freddy: You didn't say anything I object to. You were pretty clear that the feature wasn't for you and you wouldn't use it. I'm totally cool with that. As for the roguelike thing, I can see where you're going. I mean I know if they had a fighting game feature included I'd be like 'blech, what a waste of resources', so I imagine you feel the same way kinda. But nobody really demanded they impliment a roguelike mode like they did a wiiU port or whatever. This was naturally selected by the devs/Iga, so perhaps they have good ideas for that you may like? Maybe not, but hopefully t hey do.
@purify: I think you're assuming incorrectly about the part where most players wont be playing the game as intended and might possibly imbalance it for the worse. I'm a mod NUT. I've modded games long before super popular modding games like fallout and skyrim were out. I've modded the dung out of diablo 1, and even before that, a shareware game (they didn't call it indie back then) called escape velocity, when it was a mac-only title!...But each and every one of those g ames, I actually played 'vanilla' first. Though I can't speak for every modder/adjust-happy player, I've participated in their modding communities, and aside from the new games like skyrim, people play them vanilla first nearly every time. In fact the only reason why they don't for skyrim and such is simply because they simply want 'objective' improvements such as better graphics or a more user friendly UI or something. Plus many games already do things like force the player to finish the game as-is before 'unlocking' these features as a sort of ng+ feature.
|
|
Senpai
New Blood
[TI0] [TI0]
Posts: 2
inherit
2165
0
Oct 9, 2017 20:53:10 GMT -6
1
Senpai
[TI0] [TI0]
2
Oct 9, 2017 20:51:38 GMT -6
October 2017
senpai
|
Post by Senpai on Feb 28, 2018 20:28:35 GMT -6
Dishonored 2 has a really excellent custom difficulty menu and I highly encourage everyone to take a look at it. It changes how you can save the game, whether or not time slows down when you're using the quick-select wheel, how fast enemies detect you, how far above them enemies look, how visible you are when leaning around corners, how far you can lean, how fast sleep darts take effect, how loud your footsteps are, how long enemies pursue you after you've been spotted, how many reinforcements appear when alerts happen, how much health is restored by food, enemy damage quantities, how many enemies will attack at once, how fast they attack, how accurate they are at range, how brave they are, mana regeneration, how much ammo you can hold, how fast your elixirs restore health and mana and how much they restore, and probably more.
|
|
inherit
1278
0
Nov 1, 2019 8:20:23 GMT -6
171
demiurgos
I am PAL
203
May 2, 2016 14:38:30 GMT -6
May 2016
demiurgos
|
Post by demiurgos on Mar 6, 2018 5:35:29 GMT -6
I’m fine with a ”New Game +” option, unlocked after you’ve beaten the game, with a harder difficulty... ok.
|
|
Lestaroth
Wall Mac Hunter
Fifty Storms
[TI0]I have returned. Also find me in the credits!
Posts: 465
inherit
Wall Mac Hunter
1804
0
Jul 13, 2019 14:38:11 GMT -6
368
Lestaroth
[TI0]I have returned. Also find me in the credits!
465
Jan 24, 2017 7:35:36 GMT -6
January 2017
lestaroth
|
Post by Lestaroth on Apr 1, 2018 13:40:12 GMT -6
If such sliders exist, while defining in the end if the game will be of easy, normal, hard or nightmare tier (ideally the ranges of difficulty levels that I'd find ideal), I'd want the game to reflect that in a post-game summary... It would also nice to make so that cannot be faked, if people want to speedrun the game (if it ends being a thing).
That said, it would bring the concept of what would be the game content about and the rewards that go with it. An easier difficulty should make the best items impossible to obtain, after all... (they would be replaced by others)
|
|