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Post by Melnorme on Apr 16, 2018 20:56:06 GMT -6
Personally I think that if succubus outfit is in the game, it should not be NSFW, and that it should be a cheat code sort of thing. A throwback to the justin bailey cheat code from the original Metroid. Another idea would be that it is sort of disguise, while wearing the costume demons would not attack Miriam unprovoked.
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Post by Jowy Avilon on Apr 17, 2018 1:11:02 GMT -6
I voted for the NSFW Succubus myself. However, I am of the mind, I would prefer it be NSFW as long as it fits in with the over all artistic direction and feel of the game. I don't want NSFW shoved in for the sake cause sex. So if it came down to having it be sexy without being NSFW cause that fits the art direction and atmosphere of the game, then all the better.
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Post by KyuJuXZ099 on Apr 17, 2018 14:13:09 GMT -6
Seems "nun/priestess" and "maid/servant" weren't in the choices.
Not sure if picking Angelic counts?
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 17, 2018 14:40:24 GMT -6
@melnorme and KyuJuXZ099 This is a fan-created poll, so it doesn't necessarily represent official options, and as such I'd say it's a pretty safe bet the succubus outfit (if it were to happen) would not be NSFW. And to that same tune, yeah, nun/priestess would be a top choice for me too and I mentioned maid myself earlier. I think those would be popular choices at least as much as like schoolgirl, ninja etc. At least Dominique is a character, right? But if they had similar outfits, they could be sisters. lol
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Post by dareka on Apr 18, 2018 9:53:13 GMT -6
About the Succubus thing, the devs have mentioned that the original design for Miriam was more succubus-like... so I wonder if they could include that one, as I'm real curious to see how it looked.
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Post by XombieMike on Apr 18, 2018 9:59:20 GMT -6
I don't believe they said succubus like. If I remember the interview correctly it was actually more like a golem or Homunculus.
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Post by m0nkf15h on Apr 18, 2018 10:14:29 GMT -6
That would actually be quite cool, to have a twisted disfigured "homunculus" type of model, although i can see why they didn't go in that direction (might ruffle too many feathers for one reason or another) it might have affected the speed and fluidity of the combat for her to have some kind of impediment.
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Post by dareka on Apr 19, 2018 17:16:39 GMT -6
That would actually be quite cool, to have a twisted disfigured "homunculus" type of model, although i can see why they didn't go in that direction (might ruffle too many feathers for one reason or another) it might have affected the speed and fluidity of the combat for her to have some kind of impediment. I'm gonna try and find the references too it... I think the idea was something along the lines of showing more "skin" to show off the curse... which kind of meshes with the "golem" thing XombieMike mentions. I don't even know what it looks like, and I love the design they went with - I'm just curious.
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Post by XombieMike on Apr 19, 2018 17:50:54 GMT -6
dareka I actually tried to find it and looked through some links in the external article section here on the forum. I gave up, but I hope you find it. If and when you do, please see if I missed it in external articles. We need that documented here and searchable.
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Post by Galamoth on Apr 19, 2018 18:22:24 GMT -6
dareka I actually tried to find it and looked through some links in the external article section here on the forum. I gave up, but I hope you find it. If and when you do, please see if I missed it in external articles. We need that documented here and searchable. If this is about Miriam being originally envisioned as a "doll", I do believe Yuji Natsume mentioned this in the Kickstarter Ending Stream on Twitch (FFSTV).
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Post by dareka on Apr 19, 2018 21:03:57 GMT -6
dareka I actually tried to find it and looked through some links in the external article section here on the forum. I gave up, but I hope you find it. If and when you do, please see if I missed it in external articles. We need that documented here and searchable. If this is about Miriam being originally envisioned as a "doll", I do believe Yuji Natsume mentioned this in the Kickstarter Ending Stream on Twitch (FFSTV). If memory serves me, Ben Judd mentioned it at some point during the stream... maybe he was translating for Natsume-san... and maybe in one of the old interviews... I vaguely remember saying something like they gave her a more modest appearance because ... you know ...
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Post by Astaroth on Apr 20, 2018 22:06:42 GMT -6
yeah it was a word closer to a doll or frankenstein type homunculus, but they went with cursed human because it would be easier to empathise with or something like that bloodstainedfanforums.com/thread/936/bloodstained-pax-august-2015 i got there from the wiki actually but you have it in the articles section already also a jojo themed cheat with over the top costumes and idle poses would be a cool hidden option
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Post by XombieMike on Apr 20, 2018 22:16:50 GMT -6
Astaroth you found it! Please do me a favor and find or add this to the External Articles section and write about this in a searchable way! (Otherwise I'll do so soon myself.)
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Post by miyalys on May 1, 2018 14:47:57 GMT -6
And don't worry about "sexiness" controversies. Iga's doing his own thing, making the game he wants to make, and my priority isn't on those certain people that are always offended about something (who often end up not even buying the game or forgetting about it after it comes out). Sexuality is a part of life and art, and it has just as much place in a game or movie, book etc. as violence does. (if not more, I'd argue) People that have an opinion against this don't have to be "offended by everything", and on what basis are you claiming they often don't end up buying the game or forgetting it? This is not the case for me for instance, I'm already a backer and have practically every Castlevania game in my collection. Of course that's anecdotal, but my guess is the same is the case for your statement here. Sure, sexuality is a part of life and art, but sexualisation/objectification tends to have to female characters much more often. If "sex sells" was the whole truth we'd see it equally happening to all genders, but we do not. It happens to female characters so often they don't get much variety, with different body types etc.: age, weight, skin color, some conventionally ugly/beautiful, different sexualities including asexual and so on. So the ideal solution for me isn't really to start sexualising and objectifying men more, but women less - because it results in more diversity in characters, reflecting real world people more. Just like we see with the diversity in male characters, partially because there's more of them which is a cause/issue in itself. Of course there are a LOT of games so ideally we'd have research to clarify this objectively, but we don't have much of that in gaming unlike in movies fx. (I think?) where it's obvious it's skewed and was even more so in the past. Edit: One could them claim there is more sexualisation of women because there's more male gamers and most of those are heterosexual, but perhaps part of the reason for there being more male gamers is precisely because games are - and even more so were in the past - catered and designed specifically with men in mind. And regardless perhaps it would be better even if the gamers continued to be mostly men for some reason, to have more diversity in characters including female ones. I know I would like that personally. Edit: Clarified and corrected a typo.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2018 23:41:46 GMT -6
Please keep forums and games activist/agenda/free, thank you very much. Being a backer, doesn't mean we are entitled to preach real life politics (gender politics, targeted groups' rights politics) into media belonging to art (anime/manga, videogames, are art). There are newly created games that follow suit to the beliefs of the proponents of those groups, or even old/established franchises bought from developers/publishers who fix/neuter/ruin said franchises in order to please them (ex. Baldur's Gate).
Castlevania/Bloodstained deserve better.
Keep in mind, that those people are the very same ones, who demand: a. Freedom of Speech b. Freedom of Expression, especially in art c. Absence of censor in the media (but only those that they themselves utilize) d. Progress(iveness)
Especially concerning progress, when in 1998 Symphony of the night featured succubus in such presentation and Saturn CD even features her in topless artwork (files directory in CD when opened from PC), it would be actually regress, censoring artwork and/or in-game sensual appearances, in 2018. Frankly, that would be dumb, exactly like how Facebook censors out images of STATUES, because they are naked (this cause quite the ruckus, some time ago, not as big as the data leak, though)...
Please people, let's just not be hypocrites! Let the people do their work. And appreciate it? You can do it. Please don't get triggered. Don't have a short fuse. Just this once.
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Post by miyalys on May 2, 2018 3:13:20 GMT -6
First I want to clarify: I'm not really against there being nudity or scarcely clad people. Naked statues of either gender also make sense. If the case as a rule of thumb there should be equally many of either I think. Maybe the same enemy type (same name, same entry in "bestiary") could be randomly generated as male or female, that could actually be quite interesting. The mythology of a succubus could easily be male too I would think. What I'm more skeptical about is sexualisation/objectification (lets call it S/O for short) of the main character and when done primarly of women, because I think it's so commonly seen (-> less diversity) and takes away from the badass heroine Miriam. Especially Charlotte from PoS was quite cool/original in this regard, kudos for her. Just like women are used to play non-S/O male characters I think we men should be able to the same with women. Part of why I think this is important is because I think our views of characters from art affects us in the rest of our lives, and thus seeing S/O in media affects us in S/O real world people. The effect is much more subtle than playing GTA and going out stealing cars and killing people (or me shooting people after CSGO), but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Obviously the media around us affects us to some extent, that's even part of the reason we enjoy them. Please keep forums and games activist/agenda/free, thank you very much. Being a backer, doesn't mean we are entitled to preach real life politics (gender politics, targeted groups' rights politics) into media belonging to art (anime/manga, videogames, are art). There are newly created games that follow suit to the beliefs of the proponents of those groups, or even old/established franchises bought from developers/publishers who fix/neuter/ruin said franchises in order to please them (ex. Baldur's Gate). So you're essentially trying to silence me, which is what you (wrongly) call censorship? I'll be silent about this if moderators say so, not "backseat moderators" ie. random users trying to moderate opinions they don't like. Games, like all art, are obviously also about politics. Often it's even the central motivation for great art throughout history. Censorship is something the government can do. That's not what I'm talking about. Neither of us can dictate what they MUST do (which is positive), but we can make suggestions and encourage people to think about this more critically, like any other art form. Much of what's going on in this forum, discord etc. is precisely community feedback on the game, which you would then call censorship? Or maybe just when it's feedback you don't like? This entire poll is about affecting the outcome of the game, and essentially trying to get them to change the game based on our interests. Especially since it became a part of their google survey. Unfortunately, in this case, it's based on majority vote rather than discussions and arguments in favour and against (like what happens here in the comments and on discord), which I think would produce better results (a better game) though it takes more time. When you talk about games being "ruined" you seem to be "triggered" yourself and want to provide your perspective on what media does yourself to those creating the media, just like me. And that's fine, we should have more rational discussion about this, we might just end up getting smarter and with better games. Obviously I want the best games possible, our perspectives on a small part of what makes games good simply differ. Apparently for you it's more NSFW female characters/protagonists? More me it's more diversity in characters, including many more, different female characters, and less S/O of female characters where the male ones aren't. It really depends on what you catagorise as "progress", vs. taking a step backwards. I'm not necessarily arguing against that particular, tiny choice in SOTN, but just making that clear. When you talk about games being "ruined" you seem to be "triggered" yourself and want to provide your perspective on what media does yourself to those creating the media, just like me. And that's fine, we should have more rational discussion about this, we might just end up getting smarter and with better games.
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Post by akuwa on May 2, 2018 11:28:12 GMT -6
honestly don't even see why this post needs to exist at all anymore, it has a little over 500 responses which is quite a lot sure but no matter how long it stays around I can't imagine it coming anywhere near the responses in the official survey which supposedly have tens of thousands. there was a choice in the official survey to choose succubus and with drastically more people picking their favorite costumes there should be a much better estimate on what fans really want than what is on here. some people may want to just combine the 2 for more accurate numbers, but I disagree with combining those numbers being more accurate. anyone that cares enough to come to the forums to fill out this survey is going to care enough to fill out the official one and do we really want forum dwellers to have more of a voice getting two votes where others only get one?
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Post by XombieMike on May 2, 2018 14:58:42 GMT -6
honestly don't even see why this post needs to exist at all anymore, it has a little over 500 responses which is quite a lot sure but no matter how long it stays around I can't imagine it coming anywhere near the responses in the official survey which supposedly have tens of thousands. there was a choice in the official survey to choose succubus and with drastically more people picking their favorite costumes there should be a much better estimate on what fans really want than what is on here. some people may want to just combine the 2 for more accurate numbers, but I disagree with combining those numbers being more accurate. anyone that cares enough to come to the forums to fill out this survey is going to care enough to fill out the official one and do we really want forum dwellers to have more of a voice getting two votes where others only get one? This post inspired the survey questions, so that's why it exists.
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Post by endarion on May 23, 2018 15:10:51 GMT -6
if we could get a confirmation for valkyrie and succubus
i totaly would wait till those dlc are out to play the game with them
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Post by neff on May 29, 2018 18:56:28 GMT -6
I'm glad that a similar question was posed in the backer survey, that way I could write in my own favorite: an outfit with modern day clothes.
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