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Post by miyalys on Dec 21, 2017 8:43:50 GMT -6
Sypha, Corrupted and Ninja are my favourites. they will complain and shout out loud screaming by the word "sexualization" without even knowing the meaning of it and end up making a buzz. They are the once who are not going to support the game anyways... Why would they not support the game? I'm of that opinion as a backer and long-time Castlevania-fan. I'm hoping they don't add a sexualised/underwear/naked version/outfit, as I think we should be able to play non-sexualised women like we do with men all the time. I'm very happy to see another female protagonist this time around in an IGA-game, which wasn't much present earlier. In Castlevania generally I remember Portrait of Ruin and Order of Ecclesia which had female leads (PoR had both) and I was happy to see none of them were sexualised/objectified in my opinion. Same goes for Sonia Belmont and Sypha.
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 21, 2017 8:46:50 GMT -6
and on the color... I don't think there should be color limitations (maybe on special outfits like Pure Miriam outfit) why limit people's ability to customize? if we can change colors I think on most outfits, we should be able to change everything... My thought went on with the whole A. set of items and armors are only costumes and B. Armor with attributes. When it comes to costumes, they are always a bit more crazy in my opinion. And people wanna look silly. This is why I was thinking that costumes are always locked in colors, but armor with attributes would be unlocked. Only reason would be so people have "more" options. Now, you might think.. More? Locking something isn't more?! Well, it is in terms of options because if you really love to run around looking like an elf (pointy ears) for example and you can color them blue or whatever, you will always do that and not use that diadem with the powers. That was the thought behind it. You said however you would love for everything to have stats, and the "glam" / costume setting would be nullified in terms of stats if you use it. Then I would see the color in similar way to how you do it. So, the whole color thing would only be locked if these cool costumes were without abilities and stats. Reason for the first place that costumes wouldn't have any affixes / stats / abilities, is as simple as giving the developers more time to do more costumes. If you would apply stats to every piece, the same object in game are at least twice as difficult to place inside the game. With only costumes, with no stats and only looks, the developers could do so much more silly stuff for us without worry about balance. This is why I suggest costume items, would be without stats. While the real armor would have stats. When it comes to costumes, I can also see weapon-skins. How about seeing a flaming sword being witch green etc. with bubbles from it? Not a skin for flaming sword per say, but for that attack animation! The "skin" wouldn't change stats of course, and be silly. Visually changed, only. garvin like this?
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Post by Dengojin on Dec 21, 2017 9:14:17 GMT -6
Sypha, Corrupted and Ninja are my favourites. they will complain and shout out loud screaming by the word "sexualization" without even knowing the meaning of it and end up making a buzz. They are the once who are not going to support the game anyways... Why would they not support the game? I'm of that opinion as a backer and long-time Castlevania-fan. I'm hoping they don't add a sexualised/underwear/naked version/outfit, as I think we should be able to play non-sexualised women like we do with men all the time. I'm very happy to see another female protagonist this time around in an IGA-game, which wasn't much present earlier. In Castlevania generally I remember Portrait of Ruin and Order of Ecclesia which had female leads (PoR had both) and I was happy to see none of them were sexualised/objectified in my opinion. Same goes for Sonia Belmont and Sypha. You just answered to your own question, you are a Castlevania fan so you have probably seen succubi already and I think you know what I'm pointing at exactly.. if IGA feels like to add something, he should do it without listening to the minority ( but loud ) people. I am also refering to those who don't play the games, but complain about them just to ruin the fun for us fans. Do I want Miriam to wear sexy customization options? Yes because I like boobs, I like succubi, Miriam is hot, end of the story. /s PS: It is just a customization option, it is NOT sexualizing her if it is not her default outfit and everyone is forced to play the character with her bikinis or whatever on for the entire game.
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Post by miyalys on Dec 21, 2017 9:27:12 GMT -6
You know, I believe it's also a loud minority that likes sexualisation as well, as the majority of fans and backers aren't active in communities like this. From these votes it could seem like "your" minority is larger in here, however. We'll see what the team decides for. From a diversity perspective I think most of society, including the gaming world, has evolved rather positively since, say, the 90's and early 00's, where we saw enemies like the succubus shown above. That said such enemies are a small part of the games regardless. Making the protagonist look like that would be a larger one.
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Post by Dengojin on Dec 21, 2017 9:33:13 GMT -6
You know, I actually think it's a loud minority that likes sexualisation as well, as the majority of fans and backers aren't active in communities like this. From these votes it could seem like "your" minority is larger, however. We'll see what the team decides for. From a diversity perspective I think most of society, including the gaming world, has evolved rather positively since, say, the 90's and early 00's. This will be the last comment I post regarding this matter because I don't want to give this topic more than the time it deserves. So.. when did I say I support sexualization? I just stated my personal opinion of wanting to see Miriam having sexy customization (The succubus outfit) and IGA not holding back with his game, if he wants to add it he can add it without listening to the minority. Last year, some people complained about Miriam's bust size of it being too big and some wanted it to be nerfed, we made a poll and many people voted for it to stay the way it is now also the Succubus outfit is having the most votes right now, how is that a minority too? Sexuality =/= artistic freedom Also.. most of the active backers are on here, Discord or Kickstarter comment section what are you talking about? Have a nice day, sir.
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Post by miyalys on Dec 21, 2017 9:37:50 GMT -6
My opinion regarding bust size in the gaming world in general is it should, roughly proportionally, strive to reflect what women have. I've not had that impression regarding Miriam, but I don't know. I'm a man so I'm not the best judge here. I was a bit skeptical regarding the design of the demo boss however.
I'm glad you don't support sexualisation. Maybe a succubus could be made that wasn't that way.
We can both be a minority within the large group of backers and fans, most of which aren't active in the community. Fx. one wonders how many backers we have in total compared to the number of voters in this poll. It's only a very small percentage that's voted.
Thank you, you have a nice day too!
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Post by JeffCross on Dec 21, 2017 10:15:49 GMT -6
and on the color... I don't think there should be color limitations (maybe on special outfits like Pure Miriam outfit) why limit people's ability to customize? if we can change colors I think on most outfits, we should be able to change everything... My thought went on with the whole A. set of items and armors are only costumes and B. Armor with attributes. When it comes to costumes, they are always a bit more crazy in my opinion. And people wanna look silly. This is why I was thinking that costumes are always locked in colors, but armor with attributes would be unlocked. Only reason would be so people have "more" options. Now, you might think.. More? Locking something isn't more?! Well, it is in terms of options because if you really love to run around looking like an elf (pointy ears) for example and you can color them blue or whatever, you will always do that and not use that diadem with the powers. That was the thought behind it. You said however you would love for everything to have stats, and the "glam" / costume setting would be nullified in terms of stats if you use it. Then I would see the color in similar way to how you do it. So, the whole color thing would only be locked if these cool costumes were without abilities and stats. Reason for the first place that costumes wouldn't have any affixes / stats / abilities, is as simple as giving the developers more time to do more costumes. If you would apply stats to every piece, the same object in game are at least twice as difficult to place inside the game. With only costumes, with no stats and only looks, the developers could do so much more silly stuff for us without worry about balance. This is why I suggest costume items, would be without stats. While the real armor would have stats. When it comes to costumes, I can also see weapon-skins. How about seeing a flaming sword being witch green etc. with bubbles from it? Not a skin for flaming sword per say, but for that attack animation! The "skin" wouldn't change stats of course, and be silly. Visually changed, only. garvin like this? I still think colors should be free to change whenever... I don't see the reasoning behind of having one costume piece being color locked because of stats versus one that has no stats but can be colored... I hate it when they do that in games... I know the reasoning behind it, "this one is special" but that just pisses me off, its just something I end up not using. I don't care about looking silly or not but if my character looks cool and one piece of armor would make it so much cooler but that one is stuck in one color and THAT color clashes with the rest of the look... to me that would suck. I see what you mean about having costumes with stats being stuck in its original color and the others without stats being able to change... I just don't see the reasoning behind it why can't they have some costumes have stats and some don't but still have the ability to color them? it won't hurt the devs to do that right?
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 21, 2017 11:13:22 GMT -6
The impact/feedback generated from this poll will be weighted appropriately, if it is indeed counted as an opinion from backers toward a choice to be made. 505, ArtPlay etc would certainly be well aware that <100 votes on our forum would not be representative of the wider opinion of their playerbase, fans, market, etc. This topic mostly targets the people that would -want- costume options more than others, because those are the people that will respond after all, and isn't known of or accessible to a lot of people that wouldn't have as strong of an opinion either way, and those types of people likely being those that would vote for more conservative outfits.
So basically...it's data and it matters, but no, it's of course far from "this is what 'everyone' thinks". Roughly at most, it's something like, "this is what a respectable percentage of our core fans at one outlet over the span of about a week that cared to respond on a fan topic liked". The opinions of your fanatics and Miriam-lovers is an important consideration, the folks closest to you should be happy, but there is indeed a lot to consider here and the folks in charge respect that greatly I'd say.
Anyway, the option as listed is "succubus (NSFW)". I do believe they can/would add an official succubus outfit to the game. It would however probably not be NSFW. From how I'm seeing it, that's an unrealistic expectation. Something, anything like all the other Castlevania succubi (excepting exposed nipples), absolutely.
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 21, 2017 11:47:11 GMT -6
NSFW generate votes for sure! Sex sells. That is the hard truth, but at the end of the day, IGA are more about making a FUN game, not a HOT game.. So to speak. Having a Succubus with clothes on, have always been a riddle to me. Since she is usually not this in lore and fiction. We have seen a whole range of this in Castlevania games, where when she is nude, there is something blocking the details. May it be a giant floating skull, or a too small frame to fit any details (GBA games). Even so. Miriam as a Succubus would most likely be more of an halloween costume in that sense that skin is shown, but not the details. I chose to add in NSFW, because, well. The Community are by many, and many have different tastes. I could just leave the (minor info) all together, making Cowgirl more like an actual Cow, and the Vampire suit "sexy" too in some minds. By elegant I do mean, somewhat if not modern costume which can be used in any setting. Oh and I agree JeffCross with what you are saying. I just want the developers not to get even more harder time finishing the game. But we do have patches in the future. Maybe that is the answer.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 21, 2017 12:26:11 GMT -6
It feels a bit hard to vote since execution matters so much - in theory I could see something akin to a Valkyrie outfit being super cool but its not like it isn't easy to mess something like that up. The biggest example would probably be something like Evil/Corrupted Miriam. I can think of 100 ways to make something like that awesome but also 100 ways to make something like that lame and boring. If we were to assume the best possible rendition of these costume ideas, I would prefer them to lean into the theme of the game (i.e. something gothic). So stuff like Evil Miriam, Vampire/Succubus, Angelic/Demonic, Mage/Hunter, Weregirl, etc. would be the most appealing to me. I voted for Valkyrie and Succubus. Recently. I asked a friend of mine to make a drawing of the costume we both wanted to see but I think it will bring some unnecessary heated discussions or even attack the art direction so I will just vote with what could possible end up in the game. For the Valkyrie, it would be really awesome if it is not a fully armored ( not a tank like valkyrie ) valkyrie, but something more like Gwendolyn from Odin sphere. For the Succubus.. it could be many things? don't have many things in my mind, because whenever I look around me ( Xenoblade 2 for example ) with some people these days they will complain and shout out loud screaming by the word "sexualization" without even knowing the meaning of it and end up making a buzz. They are the once who are not going to support the game anyways... First off I wanted to say thanks for commissioning that recent piece of fanart in the Bloodstained gallery. ragecndy did a good job and it was a great piece of art (though I'm not sure why you uploaded such a small version of it ). The alt version (bikini ver. only on their tumblr) is good too (I assume you are somewhat slyly referring to it in your post?). Second off though, I highlight this post because it (and a few parts of some of your other posts in here) kind of exemplified an issue I posted about in another thread a while back. People can like or support (or want to) a product overall even if they dislike/hate specific parts of it. People are allowed to criticize things. You can debate the merit or tone of the critique but the fact that it exists doesn't make those people haters or make them people who " complain just to ruin the fun for us fans" be it about this game, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, etc. Also I'd add its not so much sexualization itself that is an issue usually (even if people just say that as a shorthand) but rather tone, degree, context and execution that turn people off. How/when you do something matter as much as what you are doing. (...) For the Succubus.. it could be many things? don't have many things in my mind, because whenever I look around me ( Xenoblade 2 for example ) with some people these days they will complain and shout out loud screaming by the word "sexualization" without even knowing the meaning of it and end up making a buzz. They are the once who are not going to support the game anyways... I am all for a overly ecchi / sexy Miriam in a succubus costume, and i have no shame in saying it. I like to draw (but i'm not good enough, unfortunately) and just because you said that, i'm probably going to try drawing some succubus clothes for Miriam just for the hell of it. Maybe a miracle happens and one of them is actually not terrible with my unskilled ability. I recall you posting a piece of art you did on the forums but then quickly deleted because you were embarrassed about it. But like it was perfectly fine art. If you do whip something up, don't be a afraid to share it. I think you underestimate your own skill and I think most people here will like it. I feel confident that any criticism that were to arise would be constructive We aren't going to rip you a new asshole
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Post by m0nkf15h on Dec 21, 2017 15:17:01 GMT -6
Succubus only on the condition that she has little hoovesy-woovesies.
Weregirl is kind of an oxymoron ("were" in this context means man so werewolf = manwolf) so as long as you don't mean "mangirl" i'm onboard, something for the furs among us.
Vampyre would be a nod to the past and could maybe tie in with Bloodless (extra dialogue maybe when they meet)
Valkerie seems like an obvious choice for a strong female lead-character.
Anything cute also works so bunny cat whatever is a good choice.
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Post by Angel-Corlux on Dec 27, 2017 10:18:26 GMT -6
Very intteresting choices everyone! Interesting to see what some people think / are hoping for etc.
And although I'm absolutely sure that anyone who knows me even a little will have been able to guess one of my choices, I won't say what my others were so I don't create any bias.
And don't worry about "sexiness" controversies. Iga's doing his own thing, making the game he wants to make, and my priority isn't on those certain people that are always offended about something (who often end up not even buying the game or forgetting about it after it comes out). Sexuality is a part of life and art, and it has just as much place in a game or movie, book etc. as violence does. (if not more, I'd argue)
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Post by Pure Miriam on Dec 27, 2017 10:49:31 GMT -6
Sexuality is a part of life and art, and it has just as much place in a game or movie, book etc. as violence does. (if not more, I'd argue) This quote should be printed, and put in a portrait to be in exposition forever.
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Post by Dengojin on Dec 27, 2017 12:07:57 GMT -6
Very intteresting choices everyone! Interesting to see what some people think / are hoping for etc.
And although I'm absolutely sure that anyone who knows me even a little will have been able to guess one of my choices, I won't say what my others were so I don't create any bias.
And don't worry about "sexiness" controversies. Iga's doing his own thing, making the game he wants to make, and my priority isn't on those certain people that are always "offended". Sexuality is a part of life and art, and it has just as much place in a game or movie, book etc. as violence does. (if not more, I'd argue) This.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 27, 2017 13:38:02 GMT -6
I would go further and say that this goes both ways. I expect and am under the impression that Iga and company will not be adding and adjusting things "because sexy" any more than they would change something "because modesty". I don't think Miriam wears poofy bloomer shorts because of a modesty in character design concern, but just due to that fitting the design and world that they're creating. That's the art, and especially in the case of an independent project, that art should be created independently outside of the influence of cultures or businessmen seeking to change it to better suit them.
In this case, input should be received and considered from the backers of the project, certainly, as they helped conceive it - but in doing so, in the act of giving their support, it should have been understood that creative control rests with the minds of those creators themselves. We're a panel for feedback and ideas, but in pledging we have supported the idea of Iga and the others creating their art in that independent spirit.
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Post by dareka on Dec 27, 2017 13:47:43 GMT -6
Enkeria It's true that sex sells, but I think the term NSFW didn't have much of an impact on the votes it's getting, since Vampire (Elegant) is number 2. I mean, the difference is like 1%! IMHO People just like the whole gothic vibe - any additional sexyness is just icing on the cake for those who like it (and for the record, I don't dislike it myself, ) Angel-Corlux Thanks for chiming in! Some people see the original Dracula as a very sexual novel, despite the fact that the most that happens is one kiss (the movie Bram Stoker's Dracula TOTALLY butchered it in this regard, adding sex where there was none). When you think about it, it does make sense though: it's a story about a creepy old man who pretends he's young and visits women in their sleep every night. The point I'm trying to make is that the gothic-romance theme and sexuality have always gone hand in hand. That's why enemies like "bloodless" are there. I think most of us are on the same page as far as that goes.
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Post by Time 4 Tea on Jan 13, 2018 21:03:22 GMT -6
I chose valkyrie, angelic, stained glass, vampire and mage (I would VERY much like to see Miriam with a witch costume similar to the Castlevania foes complete with her own broom and "attack cats"). I can't decide on a sixth outfit.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 13, 2018 21:33:46 GMT -6
I chose valkyrie, angelic, stained glass, vampire and mage (I would VERY much like to see Miriam with a witch costume similar to the Castlevania foes complete with her own broom and "attack cats"). I can't decide on a sixth outfit. Those are almost exactly my choices! Only difference is I went with elf and ninja, no vampire, though that's a good call too.
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Post by demiurgos on Mar 6, 2018 5:44:54 GMT -6
A Kitana/Mileena ninja suit would be rad. Also, anything sinister will do. Thrash Metal outfit would be dope! Like, trashed jeans and metal t-shirt.
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Post by cecil-kain on Apr 16, 2018 19:03:59 GMT -6
Succubus (NSFW) seems to be winning this race...
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