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Post by DragonByDegrees on Jul 3, 2015 1:36:09 GMT -6
While reading the Wikipedia article on the Philosopher's Stone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher%27s_stone) I found this: " Middle Ages
The 8th-century alchemist Jabir ibn Hayyan (Latinized as Geber) analyzed each classical element in terms of the four basic qualities. Fire was both hot and dry, earth cold and dry, water cold and moist, and air hot and moist. He theorized that every metal was a combination of these four principles, two of them interior and two exterior. From this premise, it was reasoned that the transmutation of one metal into another could be affected by the rearrangement of its basic qualities. This change would presumably be mediated by a substance, which came to be called al-iksir in Arabic (from which the Western term elixir is derived). It is often considered to exist as a dry red powder (also known as al-Kibrit al-Ahmar الكبريت الأحمر—red sulphur) made from a legendary stone—the philosopher's stone.[6][7] Jabir's theory was based on the concept that metals like gold and silver could be hidden in alloys and ores, from which they could be recovered by the appropriate chemical treatment. Jabir himself is believed to be the inventor of aqua regia, a mixture of muriatic (hydrochloric) and nitric acids, one of the few substances that can dissolve gold (and which is still often used for gold recovery and purification)" This might've already been brought up previously, but I don't remember it, so I figured posting it here couldn't hurt. More reading: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C4%81bir_ibn_Hayy%C4%81n"Jābir's alchemical investigations ostensibly revolved around the ultimate goal of takwin — the artificial creation of life. The Book of Stones includes several recipes for creating creatures such as scorpions, snakes, and even humans in a laboratory environment, which are subject to the control of their creator. What Jābir meant by these recipes is unknown."
"The Jabirian corpus is renowned for its contributions to alchemy. It shows a clear recognition of the importance of experimentation, "The first essential in chemistry is that thou shouldest perform practical work and conduct experiments, for he who performs not practical work nor makes experiments will never attain to the least degree of mastery."
"Whether there was a real Jabir in the 8th century or not, his name would become the most famous in alchemy.[16] He paved the way for most of the later alchemists, including al-Kindi, al-Razi, al-Tughrai and al-Iraqi, who lived in the 9th–13th centuries. His books strongly influenced the medieval European alchemists[30] and justified their search for the philosopher's stone.[33][34] In the Middle Ages, Jabir's treatises on alchemy were translated into Latin and became standard texts for European alchemists. These include the Kitab al-Kimya (titled Book of the Composition of Alchemy in Europe), translated by Robert of Chester (1144); and the Kitab al-Sab'een (Book of Seventy) by Gerard of Cremona (before 1187). Marcelin Berthelot translated some of his books under the fanciful titles Book of the Kingdom, Book of the Balances, and Book of Eastern Mercury. Several technical Arabic terms introduced by Jabir, such as alkali, have found their way into various European languages and have become part of scientific vocabulary."
"The Pseudo-Geber corpus
The Latin corpus consists of books with an author named "Geber" for which researchers have failed to find a text in Arabic. Although these books are heavily influenced by Arabic books written by Jābir, the "real" Geber, and by Al Razi and others, they were never written in Arabic. They are in Latin only, they date from about the year 1310, and their author is called Pseudo-Geber:
Summa perfectionis magisterii ("The Height of the Perfection of Mastery").[50]
Liber fornacum ("Book of Furnaces"),
De investigatione perfectionis ("On the Investigation of Perfection"), and
De inventione veritatis ("On the Discovery of Truth").
Testamentum gerberi" |
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Cale
Great Old One
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The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
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Post by Cale on Jul 3, 2015 13:11:27 GMT -6
I am telling you guys, the story is right in front of us, and how it will unfold. I am gonna write my predictions on a piece of paper, seal it in a vault, come back 2 years from now, and reveal the paper!
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Post by Ravenspear on Jul 3, 2015 13:15:29 GMT -6
I am telling you guys, the story is right in front of us, and how it will unfold. I am gonna write my predictions on a piece of paper, seal it in a vault, come back 2 years from now, and reveal the paper! I'm counting on you now, ha ha, I'll buy you a drink if you're right  |
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Cale
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The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
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Post by Cale on Jul 3, 2015 13:17:22 GMT -6
I am telling you guys, the story is right in front of us, and how it will unfold. I am gonna write my predictions on a piece of paper, seal it in a vault, come back 2 years from now, and reveal the paper! I'm counting on you now, ha ha, I'll buy you a drink if you're right Cheers! I'll add a paper with todays date. |
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Jul 14, 2015 13:34:11 GMT -6
While reading the Wikipedia article on the Philosopher's Stone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher%27s_stone) I found this: " Middle Ages
The 8th-century alchemist Jabir ibn Hayyan (Latinized as Geber) analyzed each classical element in terms of the four basic qualities. Fire was both hot and dry, earth cold and dry, water cold and moist, and air hot and moist. He theorized that every metal was a combination of these four principles, two of them interior and two exterior. From this premise, it was reasoned that the transmutation of one metal into another could be affected by the rearrangement of its basic qualities. This change would presumably be mediated by a substance, which came to be called al-iksir in Arabic (from which the Western term elixir is derived). It is often considered to exist as a dry red powder (also known as al-Kibrit al-Ahmar الكبريت الأحمر—red sulphur) made from a legendary stone—the philosopher's stone.[6][7] Jabir's theory was based on the concept that metals like gold and silver could be hidden in alloys and ores, from which they could be recovered by the appropriate chemical treatment. Jabir himself is believed to be the inventor of aqua regia, a mixture of muriatic (hydrochloric) and nitric acids, one of the few substances that can dissolve gold (and which is still often used for gold recovery and purification)" This might've already been brought up previously, but I don't remember it, so I figured posting it here couldn't hurt. More reading: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C4%81bir_ibn_Hayy%C4%81n"Jābir's alchemical investigations ostensibly revolved around the ultimate goal of takwin — the artificial creation of life. The Book of Stones includes several recipes for creating creatures such as scorpions, snakes, and even humans in a laboratory environment, which are subject to the control of their creator. What Jābir meant by these recipes is unknown."
"The Jabirian corpus is renowned for its contributions to alchemy. It shows a clear recognition of the importance of experimentation, "The first essential in chemistry is that thou shouldest perform practical work and conduct experiments, for he who performs not practical work nor makes experiments will never attain to the least degree of mastery."
"Whether there was a real Jabir in the 8th century or not, his name would become the most famous in alchemy.[16] He paved the way for most of the later alchemists, including al-Kindi, al-Razi, al-Tughrai and al-Iraqi, who lived in the 9th–13th centuries. His books strongly influenced the medieval European alchemists[30] and justified their search for the philosopher's stone.[33][34] In the Middle Ages, Jabir's treatises on alchemy were translated into Latin and became standard texts for European alchemists. These include the Kitab al-Kimya (titled Book of the Composition of Alchemy in Europe), translated by Robert of Chester (1144); and the Kitab al-Sab'een (Book of Seventy) by Gerard of Cremona (before 1187). Marcelin Berthelot translated some of his books under the fanciful titles Book of the Kingdom, Book of the Balances, and Book of Eastern Mercury. Several technical Arabic terms introduced by Jabir, such as alkali, have found their way into various European languages and have become part of scientific vocabulary."
"The Pseudo-Geber corpus
The Latin corpus consists of books with an author named "Geber" for which researchers have failed to find a text in Arabic. Although these books are heavily influenced by Arabic books written by Jābir, the "real" Geber, and by Al Razi and others, they were never written in Arabic. They are in Latin only, they date from about the year 1310, and their author is called Pseudo-Geber:
Summa perfectionis magisterii ("The Height of the Perfection of Mastery").[50]
Liber fornacum ("Book of Furnaces"),
De investigatione perfectionis ("On the Investigation of Perfection"), and
De inventione veritatis ("On the Discovery of Truth").
Testamentum gerberi" how would Geber be translated to Japanese? |
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purifyweirdshard
Administrator
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Calling from Heaven
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 14, 2015 13:51:01 GMT -6
I hadn't seen this topic until now D:
Wow, pretty interesting. I had been reading about alchemy on Wikipedia and missed this. Good stuff.
Given how the R/L sound is interchangeable for native Japanese speakers, makes sense this could be our Gebel. Could even be somewhat of an in-joke, conscious of that.
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kdfukuyama
New Blood
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Post by kdfukuyama on Jul 14, 2015 14:08:59 GMT -6
While reading the Wikipedia article on the Philosopher's Stone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher%27s_stone) I found this: " Middle Ages
The 8th-century alchemist Jabir ibn Hayyan (Latinized as Geber) analyzed each classical element in terms of the four basic qualities. Fire was both hot and dry, earth cold and dry, water cold and moist, and air hot and moist. He theorized that every metal was a combination of these four principles, two of them interior and two exterior. From this premise, it was reasoned that the transmutation of one metal into another could be affected by the rearrangement of its basic qualities. This change would presumably be mediated by a substance, which came to be called al-iksir in Arabic (from which the Western term elixir is derived). It is often considered to exist as a dry red powder (also known as al-Kibrit al-Ahmar الكبريت الأحمر—red sulphur) made from a legendary stone—the philosopher's stone.[6][7] Jabir's theory was based on the concept that metals like gold and silver could be hidden in alloys and ores, from which they could be recovered by the appropriate chemical treatment. Jabir himself is believed to be the inventor of aqua regia, a mixture of muriatic (hydrochloric) and nitric acids, one of the few substances that can dissolve gold (and which is still often used for gold recovery and purification)" This might've already been brought up previously, but I don't remember it, so I figured posting it here couldn't hurt. More reading: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C4%81bir_ibn_Hayy%C4%81n"Jābir's alchemical investigations ostensibly revolved around the ultimate goal of takwin — the artificial creation of life. The Book of Stones includes several recipes for creating creatures such as scorpions, snakes, and even humans in a laboratory environment, which are subject to the control of their creator. What Jābir meant by these recipes is unknown."
"The Jabirian corpus is renowned for its contributions to alchemy. It shows a clear recognition of the importance of experimentation, "The first essential in chemistry is that thou shouldest perform practical work and conduct experiments, for he who performs not practical work nor makes experiments will never attain to the least degree of mastery."
"Whether there was a real Jabir in the 8th century or not, his name would become the most famous in alchemy.[16] He paved the way for most of the later alchemists, including al-Kindi, al-Razi, al-Tughrai and al-Iraqi, who lived in the 9th–13th centuries. His books strongly influenced the medieval European alchemists[30] and justified their search for the philosopher's stone.[33][34] In the Middle Ages, Jabir's treatises on alchemy were translated into Latin and became standard texts for European alchemists. These include the Kitab al-Kimya (titled Book of the Composition of Alchemy in Europe), translated by Robert of Chester (1144); and the Kitab al-Sab'een (Book of Seventy) by Gerard of Cremona (before 1187). Marcelin Berthelot translated some of his books under the fanciful titles Book of the Kingdom, Book of the Balances, and Book of Eastern Mercury. Several technical Arabic terms introduced by Jabir, such as alkali, have found their way into various European languages and have become part of scientific vocabulary."
"The Pseudo-Geber corpus
The Latin corpus consists of books with an author named "Geber" for which researchers have failed to find a text in Arabic. Although these books are heavily influenced by Arabic books written by Jābir, the "real" Geber, and by Al Razi and others, they were never written in Arabic. They are in Latin only, they date from about the year 1310, and their author is called Pseudo-Geber:
Summa perfectionis magisterii ("The Height of the Perfection of Mastery").[50]
Liber fornacum ("Book of Furnaces"),
De investigatione perfectionis ("On the Investigation of Perfection"), and
De inventione veritatis ("On the Discovery of Truth").
Testamentum gerberi" how would Geber be translated to Japanese? When you say translated, you mean the pronunciation I think. So, entering the official Japanese (outdated) Kickstarter site, "Gebel" name writes ジー ベル (JIII.BE.RU, that "jiii" with the sound when people say "Jeee"sus) (edited here, it is Jiii, instead of Giii) The name "Geber" becomes the same ジー ベル (JIII.BE.RU) because in Japan, they don't have the letter "L", so, "L" or "R" becomes "RU" for this name. |
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Jul 14, 2015 14:25:31 GMT -6
kdfukuyama that is what I was expecting you to say. I think Gebel's name was a translation mistake. Do you agree? If so, should we bother trying to correct it?
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New Blood
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Post by kdfukuyama on Jul 14, 2015 14:29:50 GMT -6
I hadn't seen this topic until now D: Wow, pretty interesting. I had been reading about alchemy on Wikipedia and missed this. Good stuff. Given how the R/L sound is interchangeable for native Japanese speakers, makes sense this could be our Gebel. Could even be somewhat of an in-joke, conscious of that. By the way, in the Japanese version of Super Castlevania IV (Akumajo Dracula) for Super Nintendo(Famicom), the gravestone at the beginning has the name DRACU"R"A engraved   |
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Jul 14, 2015 14:41:25 GMT -6
Yeah, I've always thought that bit of Engrish was funny.
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Post by kdfukuyama on Jul 14, 2015 14:41:46 GMT -6
kdfukuyama that is what I was expecting you to say. I think Gebel's name was a translation mistake. Do you agree? If so, should we bother trying to correct it? Hehe, good question. Like purifyweirdshard said, maybe Iga-san did on purpose. Japanese people really like "puns". An idea could be asking Ben Judd if it was on purpose or not. Because now I'm curious  |
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Jul 14, 2015 15:09:23 GMT -6
benjuddge what are your thoughts on this one?
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ChucklesTheJester
Ancient Legion
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Post by ChucklesTheJester on Jul 15, 2015 3:51:53 GMT -6
I think Gebel's name was a translation mistake. Do you agree? If so, should we bother trying to correct it? No and no.  Things like this are intentionally done when translating to/from Japanese all the time. Besides, I like it when it's marginally more subtle. |
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Post by arayashiki on Jul 16, 2015 0:37:13 GMT -6
I am telling you guys, the story is right in front of us, and how it will unfold. I am gonna write my predictions on a piece of paper, seal it in a vault, come back 2 years from now, and reveal the paper! Is it that unoriginal?  |
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Post by florianbingart on Jul 16, 2015 0:55:20 GMT -6
[joking]It's probably an amalgan of Gabe and Newell and they are celebrating PC master race with that character. Just look how powerful he is; oh my![/joking]
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Cale
Great Old One
Ancient Legion
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
Posts: 624
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Cale
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.
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Post by Cale on Jul 16, 2015 10:29:34 GMT -6
I am telling you guys, the story is right in front of us, and how it will unfold. I am gonna write my predictions on a piece of paper, seal it in a vault, come back 2 years from now, and reveal the paper! Is it that unoriginal? Oh, nothing is original these days, but luckily the plot for this game is going to be very esoteric. I doubt many people read literature that is over a hundred years old. Unless it's been made into a movie. I bet even I will be surprised at some of the directions Iga will go. But I am betting it will be based on a lot of work that relates to Arabic alchemy. |
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Post by alialkhiro on Jul 19, 2015 11:35:32 GMT -6
I am not sure this is related to anything (I doubt they went that far with their research if it is why the chose the name), but I think it is interesting so I'll mention it.
(جابر) Jabir is the actor name of the verb (جبر). (جبر) translates as (mended) with its actor name translating as (mender).
This is different from the verb (اصلح=fixed) in that it is used to describe rejoining fractured parts of the same object such as bones or glass. It carries the meaning of correcting and making whole.
At the same time, it also carries the meaning of forcing others to follow one's will against their own.
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Post by silverbolt on Jul 20, 2015 6:00:08 GMT -6
The only reason I remember Geber (Jabir) is because his name gives us the word Gibberish.
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Skull Knight
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Post by Rigel on Jul 27, 2015 23:48:36 GMT -6
Very interesting, so Gebel comes from this top alchemist named Jabir.
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Post by Elenie on Jul 30, 2015 17:45:41 GMT -6
Oh, Gebel is not only a random name  |
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Things like this are intentionally done when translating to/from Japanese all the time. Besides, I like it when it's marginally more subtle.
