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Post by Kitti_W on Jun 20, 2017 22:20:35 GMT -6
Credit video: Gematsu
Note:
- I have zero experience in music composition
- I can't play any instrument
- I've been in love with game music for 20 years (Since FFIV to be exact)
- My dream is to have my name appear in end credits of some game as "Music Composer"
One day I came across a game music composition course on Udemy. The 2nd lesson of the course is about composing "Character Theme". You can guess who I'd picked as my character lol. Enjoy!
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Post by Yän on Jun 21, 2017 7:48:48 GMT -6
It's a good start and has some nice progression in the melody. I'd give the bass some more oomph. Maybe add some pauses so the main melody doesn't feel like an endless stream of notes. For example I like what you did with the flute in the beginning at about 6 seconds. I think a little less reverb on the main melody could give the arrangement more clarity. Keep it up, this is very good for having no former experience!
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Post by Kitti_W on Jun 22, 2017 0:58:42 GMT -6
It's a good start and has some nice progression in the melody. I'd give the bass some more oomph. Maybe add some pauses so the main melody doesn't feel like an endless stream of notes. For example I like what you did with the flute in the beginning at about 6 seconds. I think a little less reverb on the main melody could give the arrangement more clarity. Keep it up, this is very good for having no former experience! Thanks! I'm taking note of your advice right now. I also like the 'break' at around 0:06. I don't know why but yeah the song sounds great when we have it there. (btw, this is nothing serious but what is a 'progression in melody'? XD) I'll go research how to reduce reverb. Currently I just put in notes without any mixing/effects. I will definitely complete this song before Bloodstained comes out! I'd play it as a Castle Entrance song and see how it feels. Btw if anyone interested, this is my simple 30 seconds 'Town Theme' song made as a homework for lesson 1 of the Udemy course I mentioned: clyp.it/avqdmz4l
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Post by Yän on Jun 22, 2017 6:51:24 GMT -6
It's a good start and has some nice progression in the melody. I'd give the bass some more oomph. Maybe add some pauses so the main melody doesn't feel like an endless stream of notes. For example I like what you did with the flute in the beginning at about 6 seconds. I think a little less reverb on the main melody could give the arrangement more clarity. Keep it up, this is very good for having no former experience! Thanks! I'm taking note of your advice right now. I also like the 'break' at around 0:06. I don't know why but yeah the song sounds great when we have it there. (btw, this is nothing serious but what is a 'progression in melody'? XD) I'll go research how to reduce reverb. Currently I just put in notes without any mixing/effects. I will definitely complete this song before Bloodstained comes out! I'd play it as a Castle Entrance song and see how it feels. Btw if anyone interested, this is my simple 30 seconds 'Town Theme' song made as a homework for lesson 1 of the Udemy course I mentioned: clyp.it/avqdmz4lWhat I mean by progression in melody is that it reuses the same basic structure in repetition while progressing through stages of a sort of intensity and resolution. Ok, this might sound like more gibberish so let me give you an example. At 11 seconds you establish the structure of the melody. The first repetition at 14 seconds makes for some strengthened intensity, building up tension. Then there's resolution of the theme from 17 seconds onward. That's what I enjoy about this melody. It makes it interesting while bein easy to get into. As for reverb... I'm not sure which DAW and plugins you are using. It heavily depends on the VST-Plugin. If it has a strong built in reverb, the only way to reduce the effect might be to change the VST or to change its settings. I pretty much only use Tx16Wx as my main instrument-VST. However that requires you to have your own wav-samples so I'm not sure if that's your cup of tea.
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Post by Kitti_W on Jun 23, 2017 3:04:03 GMT -6
Thanks! I'm taking note of your advice right now. I also like the 'break' at around 0:06. I don't know why but yeah the song sounds great when we have it there. (btw, this is nothing serious but what is a 'progression in melody'? XD) I'll go research how to reduce reverb. Currently I just put in notes without any mixing/effects. I will definitely complete this song before Bloodstained comes out! I'd play it as a Castle Entrance song and see how it feels. Btw if anyone interested, this is my simple 30 seconds 'Town Theme' song made as a homework for lesson 1 of the Udemy course I mentioned: clyp.it/avqdmz4lWhat I mean by progression in melody is that it reuses the same basic structure in repetition while progressing through stages of a sort of intensity and resolution. Ok, this might sound like more gibberish so let me give you an example. At 11 seconds you establish the structure of the melody. The first repetition at 14 seconds makes for some strengthened intensity, building up tension. Then there's resolution of the theme from 17 seconds onward. That's what I enjoy about this melody. It makes it interesting while bein easy to get into. As for reverb... I'm not sure which DAW and plugins you are using. It heavily depends on the VST-Plugin. If it has a strong built in reverb, the only way to reduce the effect might be to change the VST or to change its settings. I pretty much only use Tx16Wx as my main instrument-VST. However that requires you to have your own wav-samples so I'm not sure if that's your cup of tea. Now that you mentioned it, it actually sounds that way. (I mean the melody progression) Although I think this version reached 'resolution' too early so I'm changing it. About reverb, I'm using FL Studio. The instruments I'm using is not VST but a DirecWave. Here's the link to the instrument set: www.dskmusic.com/high-quality-instruments/It's the best $25 I've spent (other than Bloodstained backer pledge lol). I think there should be a way to reduce reverb in my case. Anyway, the song should finished first then I'd start adjusting reverb/effects. XD Thanks for your advice again!
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Post by Yän on Jun 23, 2017 12:40:41 GMT -6
My main DAW is FL Studio as well! I haven't heard of dskmusic before but from listening to the demos I must say that it sounds very good especially for the price. You can probably reduce reverb with directwave's settings though I'm not sure as I haven't used this setup so far. Starting with composition and working on mixing and effects later is a common and "safe" way for music production so I guess that makes sense I'm looking forward to hear more of it.
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Post by Kitti_W on Jun 23, 2017 21:08:29 GMT -6
My main DAW is FL Studio as well! I haven't heard of dskmusic before but from listening to the demos I must say that it sounds very good especially for the price. You can probably reduce reverb with directwave's settings though I'm not sure as I haven't used this setup so far. Starting with composition and working on mixing and effects later is a common and "safe" way for music production so I guess that makes sense I'm looking forward to hear more of it. The instructor in Udemy course uses free version of DSK instruments in her lesson. So I went and check out their paid version. I had absolutely no intention of buying any instruments set. Because for amateur like me, those 'free' instruments out there are more than enough. But in their demo sound clip ( www.dskmusic.com/high-quality-instruments/), at 7:22 minutes, I hear Chrono Cross music! Bought the set after that out of emotional-reason lol. Have a chat via email with the author after that and he said he also like video game music. But man, now these 'hq instruments' files are so large! My free instruments was like 2-3 mb max but now we're talking about 2-3 gb... I'll continue to work on my Miriam Theme. XD
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Post by Yän on Jun 23, 2017 22:14:18 GMT -6
My main DAW is FL Studio as well! I haven't heard of dskmusic before but from listening to the demos I must say that it sounds very good especially for the price. You can probably reduce reverb with directwave's settings though I'm not sure as I haven't used this setup so far. Starting with composition and working on mixing and effects later is a common and "safe" way for music production so I guess that makes sense I'm looking forward to hear more of it. The instructor in Udemy course uses free version of DSK instruments in her lesson. So I went and check out their paid version. I had absolutely no intention of buying any instruments set. Because for amateur like me, those 'free' instruments out there are more than enough. But in their demo sound clip ( www.dskmusic.com/high-quality-instruments/), at 7:22 minutes, I hear Chrono Cross music! Bought the set after that out of emotional-reason lol. Have a chat via email with the author after that and he said he also like video game music. But man, now these 'hq instruments' files are so large! My free instruments was like 2-3 mb max but now we're talking about 2-3 gb... I'll continue to work on my Miriam Theme. XD Well that's quite ususal, regarding the size. My personal instrument sample Library is currently at 2.9GB and I'm still constantly expanding it. It's also sort of free but that's because I made my virtual instruments myself (recording, editing, assembling them in Tx16Wx) so that's a lot of time and work going into it I guess.
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Post by Kitti_W on Sept 10, 2017 9:31:12 GMT -6
It's been forever but here's some more progress! Note : Yän I still have a notepad containing all of your advice XD. (reverb, continued stream of notes, ...) I didn't work on that yet but I'll definitely do the finishing touch later!
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Post by XombieMike on Sept 10, 2017 9:44:58 GMT -6
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Post by Yän on Sept 10, 2017 11:43:36 GMT -6
It's been forever but here's some more progress! Note : Yän I still have a notepad containing all of your advice XD. (reverb, continued stream of notes, ...) I didn't work on that yet but I'll definitely do the finishing touch later! Wow, you've come quite a long way with this. Very solid stuff! A good thing is that I immediately remembered the melody when listening to it again after a couple of months. I'm really digging the change at around 43 seconds. Everything after that serves as a nice pause. From the action we got before. I don't know how much longer you intend this piece to be but as far as I'm concerned you basically just need to find a good way to bring it back 'round. Another thing perhaps for your notepad: Might be personal preference but I noticed that the snare sounds a bit dull. Maybe add some more high frequencies in an EQ. Am I right in saying that in the second half the snare has even fewer high frequencies than before? Maybe it'd work better for me if you emphasized that change even more by adding more highs during the first half and taking yet more away after the change. Or you might even go with a different sample after the change - perhaps like a rimshot. Just some ideas. The more I hear the first half of the composition the more I'm reminded of "Chapel Hidden in Smoke" from OoE. Just a stylistic thing. Really sounds like Michiru
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Post by Kitti_W on Sept 11, 2017 0:55:26 GMT -6
It's been forever but here's some more progress! Note : Yän I still have a notepad containing all of your advice XD. (reverb, continued stream of notes, ...) I didn't work on that yet but I'll definitely do the finishing touch later! Wow, you've come quite a long way with this. Very solid stuff! A good thing is that I immediately remembered the melody when listening to it again after a couple of months. I'm really digging the change at around 43 seconds. Everything after that serves as a nice pause. From the action we got before. I don't know how much longer you intend this piece to be but as far as I'm concerned you basically just need to find a good way to bring it back 'round. Another thing perhaps for your notepad: Might be personal preference but I noticed that the snare sounds a bit dull. Maybe add some more high frequencies in an EQ. Am I right in saying that in the second half the snare has even fewer high frequencies than before? Maybe it'd work better for me if you emphasized that change even more by adding more highs during the first half and taking yet more away after the change. Or you might even go with a different sample after the change - perhaps like a rimshot. Just some ideas. The more I hear the first half of the composition the more I'm reminded of "Chapel Hidden in Smoke" from OoE. Just a stylistic thing. Really sounds like Michiru Hey thanks for great advice again! Took note of them all. This piece should be around 2 minutes max. I already have some ideas for the upcoming part. But yeah it'll be a bit difficult to bring the song back and then loop from beginning smoothly. About the snare, I use them as-is without any adjustment (for both part of the song). Never touched any EQ before but I'll get there eventually XD. About "Chapel Hidden in Smoke"! This is actually how I study. I get .midi files from vgmusic.com, open them in FL Studio and I can see all the notes. The percussion from 0:00-0:43 is what I got from "Chapel Hidden in Smoke". From 0:43 onward I use percussion that resembles later part of Luxurious Overture. I try to make it sounds like "Igavania" song.
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Post by Yän on Sept 11, 2017 6:53:11 GMT -6
Wow, you've come quite a long way with this. Very solid stuff! A good thing is that I immediately remembered the melody when listening to it again after a couple of months. I'm really digging the change at around 43 seconds. Everything after that serves as a nice pause. From the action we got before. I don't know how much longer you intend this piece to be but as far as I'm concerned you basically just need to find a good way to bring it back 'round. Another thing perhaps for your notepad: Might be personal preference but I noticed that the snare sounds a bit dull. Maybe add some more high frequencies in an EQ. Am I right in saying that in the second half the snare has even fewer high frequencies than before? Maybe it'd work better for me if you emphasized that change even more by adding more highs during the first half and taking yet more away after the change. Or you might even go with a different sample after the change - perhaps like a rimshot. Just some ideas. The more I hear the first half of the composition the more I'm reminded of "Chapel Hidden in Smoke" from OoE. Just a stylistic thing. Really sounds like Michiru Hey thanks for great advice again! Took note of them all. This piece should be around 2 minutes max. I already have some ideas for the upcoming part. But yeah it'll be a bit difficult to bring the song back and then loop from beginning smoothly. About the snare, I use them as-is without any adjustment (for both part of the song). Never touched any EQ before but I'll get there eventually XD. About "Chapel Hidden in Smoke"! This is actually how I study. I get .midi files from vgmusic.com, open them in FL Studio and I can see all the notes. The percussion from 0:00-0:43 is what I got from "Chapel Hidden in Smoke". From 0:43 onward I use percussion that resembles later part of Luxurious Overture. I try to make it sounds like "Igavania" song. Well, since you're using FL Studio you're in luck, really. The FL-Parametric EQ 2 is actually my favourite EQ ever! It shows you exactly which frequencies are being played in which intensity all in real time. Very useful stuff! I also learned a lot about Yamane's style of composition by doing many arrangements of CV-tunes and looking very closely at the MIDI files. Another reason why your song reminds me of "Chapel Hidden in Smoke" is the very straightforward bassline both songs have. So far, you definitely nailed the Igavania-feeling for me at least. I'm looking forward to what is coming for the next part of the song. Keep it up!
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Post by Kitti_W on Oct 8, 2017 4:32:10 GMT -6
It's been some time. I intended to not post any more unfinished version but man, it's taking forever. So here it is. This will be the last time I post an unfinished version. I won't let my teacher see this yet. Any feed back are welcome! XD
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Post by Yän on Oct 9, 2017 13:26:08 GMT -6
It's been some time. I intended to not post any more unfinished version but man, it's taking forever. So here it is. This will be the last time I post an unfinished version. I won't let my teacher see this yet. Any feed back are welcome! XD I hear, you've made some good progress! I really like the addition of the plucked instrument at around 56 - sounds beautiful! You also bring back the starting melody quite nicely but with some variation to it. I think that it might flow better if you gave that bit a repetition and only brought in the variations on the second turn so the listener can recognize it more easily and is more ready for the changes made. I'm not so sure about how you introduced the horns in the end. I think the idea can work out but the way they are introduced now seems very surprising and almost dissonant. Maybe you should have some notes that will bring the horns in before the actual measure starts. Also the entire horn section seems a bit busy and unfocussed to me but maybe that could be fixed by having the other instrument play a little fewer notes and having the horns quieter in the mix. Other than those suggestions I have nothing but praise. Well done so far! Good luck with the last stretch!
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Post by Kitti_W on Oct 10, 2017 1:03:20 GMT -6
It's been some time. I intended to not post any more unfinished version but man, it's taking forever. So here it is. This will be the last time I post an unfinished version. I won't let my teacher see this yet. Any feed back are welcome! XD I hear, you've made some good progress! I really like the addition of the plucked instrument at around 56 - sounds beautiful! You also bring back the starting melody quite nicely but with some variation to it. I think that it might flow better if you gave that bit a repetition and only brought in the variations on the second turn so the listener can recognize it more easily and is more ready for the changes made. I'm not so sure about how you introduced the horns in the end. I think the idea can work out but the way they are introduced now seems very surprising and almost dissonant. Maybe you should have some notes that will bring the horns in before the actual measure starts. Also the entire horn section seems a bit busy and unfocussed to me but maybe that could be fixed by having the other instrument play a little fewer notes and having the horns quieter in the mix. Other than those suggestions I have nothing but praise. Well done so far! Good luck with the last stretch! !!!!! First, Thanks!! Then... I'm really surprised that you immediately pointed out my hidden intention of posting yet another un-finished version. From 1:10 on wards what I need to do is: 1. Bring back the main melody once more (cool feeling XD) 2. End the song, make it loop smoothly from the beginning I now have several version of the part (1:10-2:xx), many of which I had thrown away. The one I just posted is the one that I challenge myself by "trying to be too complex for my skill level". I've been listening to this version everyday for like... hundreds times now. To the point that I'm not sure anymore how people will feel about the variation at 1:10+ or the "comeback" at 1:24+ - Will they notice the variation (1:10)? - Will they notice the comeback of main melody (1:24)? - If they noticed, will they feel it's "too much/too busy" hearing those 2 melodies playing at the same time(1:24+)? *** (this point is what i wanted to know the most) I've seen many cool tracks did this, bringing back the main melody by playing it in the background along with another melody on top. (But unlike me they executed it so well that the end product is soooooooo cooool) I guess I'll go with the standard way instead, bringing back main melody peacefully without trying to be too flashy/complex/unfocused. (maybe try again later when I'm more experienced XD) Here's my favorite stage-1 Castle Entrance theme from Aria of Sorrow. The entire song only have 2 main melodies playing at different keys, at different time. Conveying different emotions just by changing keys. This song is masterfully crafted it's so easy to understand/enjoy yet so deep. I think I'm gonna go this way instead for my current song. P.S. About my song at 0:56, yeah! I also love this part so much. Almost everyone I show the song to said that they like the piano solo at 0:56 (but no one noticed that this is also my attempt to bring back melody that played at the very start of the song XD) P.S.2 That 1:24+ part sounds like a horn? It's actually a strings ensemble playing with a flute ^^ The end result is the sound I wanted(I want the same sound that plays at 1:07 in the Aria of Sorrow song in the clip above) If horn sounds like that then I'm gonna try playing around with horn next time. Thanks Yän !! great recommendations as always. You really are a professional music composer. You seems to know the thought process of putting together a music. I mean the "give some more repetition before introducing a variation" and things like that. It's very hard to notice it myself because I've been listening to my own song everyday. (it kinda make me auto-expect the flow of the song while it may sound weird to other listeners) Sorry for the long post! XD
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Post by Kitti_W on Jan 14, 2018 11:53:57 GMT -6
It's been so long. I've managed to finish the main melody:
Only things left to do is adjust the placeholder bass, add chords, adjust drums.
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Post by XombieMike on Jan 14, 2018 13:47:23 GMT -6
Wow, it sure has come a long way! Great progress. I'm glad you decided to use Bloodstained for your course. It's fitting with the game very nicely.
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Post by Yän on Jan 21, 2018 6:28:30 GMT -6
Kitti_W Damn, you've come very far with this indeed! I like how you revisit the main motif in altered ways in the new parts of your composition. Gives it a nice sense of continuity. One example for this is the little melodic line at 2:08. It's instantly recognizable and feels great even when you hear it for the first time. The part at 2:20 made me smile as it reminded me of the very beginning of Rhapsody of the Forsaken (Minera Prison Island). One thing that I think would improve the flow of the track and the moment of repetition of the loop would be to make the part right at 2:24 repeat itself (with some variations) for sth. like three bars or so. I say this because with that run at 2:20 it feels like you're starting a climax-part. It actually feels like a nice climax up to 2:29 when it kind of just breaks off and fizzles out to wrap around to the beginning. I think that this feeling wouldn't be there if this height of intensity lasted for a few more measures (not super long, just long enough to justify its existence as a climactic part of the song. Right now it just feels a bit too "stoppy-starty" Everything else feels just right to me. Really captures Yamane-san's style of composing! You're not too far from a finished result and I look forward to hearing that!
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Post by Kitti_W on Jan 21, 2018 22:44:22 GMT -6
XombieMike It's all thanks to Bloodstained project that I finally took a first step towards my dreams. I've been dreaming of being a music composer since, like, when I was 10. It's a shame I never take any actions until now. (36 years old next month!) I'm super happy that my first song is "Miriam Theme" ! XD Yän Thanks for the feedback! You surprised me again for pointing out the abrupt end at 2:29. Story is: I didn''t notice the abrupt end at 2:29 when I was working in FL Studio. But the first time I put the song in gameplay video, I suddenly found that it 'ruined the mood'. Feels like the song is being forced/try too hard to loop back to the begining. Rhapsody of the Forsaken (Minera Prison Island) ---> I thought you were talking about some classical music by Mozart or Bach but after googling, it's one of my favorites from Order of Ecclesia!. Note : In the above video. From 1:14 to the end of the song, I use one-note bass. It's just a placeholder. I need some bass to be there while composing. Now that the main melody is complete, the finish line is in sight!
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