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Post by Reunilu on Mar 30, 2017 19:19:55 GMT -6
I like how the thread has mostly just been about Dominique's design and Alfred and Anne have been just there. Not that I'm complaining, I'm just pointing that out.
I'd also probably in the minority of not liking Dominique's design? I mean, I really like eastern styles and I kind of don't like the western approach to art, especially art style, but her design feels a little over the top. I appreciate the glasses aesthetic and the hair-over-eyes aesthetic, but this doesn't feel right having them together. The short front part of her dress was nice, but then I saw the thigh choker thing (I just normally call it zettai ryouiki, even though that mostly applies to the thigh high socks) and my reaction was not very nice. The stockings didn't help either, but for a completely different reason of "avoid stockings like the plague". I'm loving the hat and the high heels, though! The hat especially, I don't really like frills or poofy-ish hats, but this hat is really nice.
But yeah, even though I don't really like Dominique's design, I can overlook it easily once I get a better look at her personality, which already seems rather promising.
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Post by crocodile on Mar 30, 2017 20:00:44 GMT -6
I'm afraid I have to agree with others here, in that I personally don't see any problem in Dominique's design. For one thing, you have to consider that Bloodstained is set in 18th-century England. A character like Zangetsu, even by the 18th Century, would be considered a foreigner and stranger in such a country at this time. While I also appreciate ethnic diversity among characters in fiction, I don't mind the fact that there are mostly blonde blue-eyed characters (two of them formerly blonde) in this game. By virtue of this game's setting alone, there's no reason to expect much in terms of diversity. Speaking of Zangetsu; I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls a reverse-"William Adams" in this game, conveniently having already learned to speak fluent English 10 years prior to current events. If they were all blue hair with green skin, I would still love it. Its a game  Eh, if they were and it wasn't explained as "they are demons"/"they are aliens"/etc. you would probably care. This topic is something that matters and that analogy doesn't really work due to real world context. However, given that I'm here most days posting and I've spent the most part of the past day raving about Dominique and how awesome she is, that should tell you my overall opinion and excitement for this project  . Someone can still be excited for something and/or love something whilst being slightly/mildly disappointed about specific aspects of it. I like how the thread has mostly just been about Dominique's design and Alfred and Anne have been just there. Not that I'm complaining, I'm just pointing that out. I'd also probably in the minority of not liking Dominique's design? I mean, I really like eastern styles and I kind of don't like the western approach to art, especially art style, but her design feels a little over the top. I appreciate the glasses aesthetic and the hair-over-eyes aesthetic, but this doesn't feel right having them together. The short front part of her dress was nice, but then I saw the thigh choker thing (I just normally call it zettai ryouiki, even though that mostly applies to the thigh high socks) and my reaction was not very nice. The stockings didn't help either, but for a completely different reason of "avoid stockings like the plague". I'm loving the hat and the high heels, though! The hat especially, I don't really like frills or poofy-ish hats, but this hat is really nice. But yeah, even though I don't really like Dominique's design, I can overlook it easily once I get a better look at her personality, which already seems rather promising. Heh, the heels are probably the only thing I don't like about Dominique's design LOL. But hey different people have different tastes/opinions. Thx for your commentary  |
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Post by Galamoth on Mar 30, 2017 23:10:52 GMT -6
Speaking of the other two characters... You know what I just realized about Alfred? (color-coded names make a comeback!)
His character is analogous to Barlowe (from Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia).
He was a father-figure to two of the main characters, and lost his former self in pursuit of a dark goal (potentially corrupting him).
The only real difference between Barlowe and Alfred is their initial goal. The former sought new methods to destroy an ultimate evil (but ends up tragically corrupted), and the latter sought to unleash demons on the world to secure Alchemy as the "prevalent philosophy".
...I'm really hoping he's one of the other two playable characters now.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Mar 31, 2017 1:42:10 GMT -6
Everyone knows my position about Dominique's fantastic design, i don't need to say this again. But i agree, time to give some love to the other two. I was observing them, and reading their material and some things also came to my mind.
What Galamoth said is something i noticed too. To be fair, i remember that a online friend of mine said he doesn't liked Bloodstained because it is too "carbon-copy" of Order of Ecclesia. I don't agree with him, but, yeah, there are quite a lot of similarities. I was paying attention and the correlation became clear. I think most people noticed this already, but i'm going to say it anyways.
Miriam <=> Shanoa: They have the same overall look, with black hair and blue dress with pieces of assymetric armor and clothing. But their themes are different. Shanoa remembers a crow of some sort, due to her overly long black hair and gothic look. That is more noticable when you get the Volaticus Glyph, that gives her crow-like dark feathered wings to fly. Miriam, on the other hand, has a flower and stained glass theme, with her crystalized skin forming roses and colored stained glasses. (It would be awesome if Miriam had a Flying Shard that give her crystal wings). And both have the same role as protagonists.
Johannes <=> Albus: They have the same color pallete of sorts (browish). At first, they don't seem to have the same role, since Albus looks like a villian in the beginning (but it isn't really) but since we don't know how Johannes will work in the plot, we can'r say if there isn't a correlation there.
Alfred <=> Barlowe: As Galamoth said. Both are father figure of the main characters, both are old men, but their looks are really different. Barlowe is more unique and Alfred looks more like Dracula. Their roles also seem to be different.
Gebel <=> Dracula: Gebel, being the Castle Lord and everything, of course is a expy of Dracula, although Gebel looks more like Alucard than Dracula itself.
Anne <=> Anna: Yes, there is a Anna in Order of Ecclesia. And she looks like Anne, albeit Anne is Blonde and Anna is brunette. Anna doesn't have much of a role in Order of Ecclesia, but Anne has, so, they are different in that regard.
Only Zangetsu and Dominique doesn't have correlations in Order of Ecclesia. I'm not saying this as a bad thing. Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night IS a spiritual sucessor of Castlevania. It is only logic that IGA decided to make a closer relation to his last major Castlevania game.
But it is still interesting to notice that IGA and the dev team didn't tried to get too far away from it. It almost looks like they wanted us to spot those similarities as a ton of shout outs, to feel more like a spiritual sucessor than anything.
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Post by Enkeria on Mar 31, 2017 6:14:34 GMT -6
If they were all blue hair with green skin, I would still love it. Its a game 've spent the most part of the past day raving about Dominique and how awesome she is, that should tell you my overall opinion and excitement for this project . Someone can still be excited for something and/or love something whilst being slightly/mildly disappointed about specific aspects of it. I do not see any "he" or "she" since I only see a game. The design is beautiful on all of them and it's cool they are giving them life and all, but the game play experience is what I enjoy, really do not care if characters are cross between a teddy bear and a human in design, even though they are made out of pixels or cellshadings. Colors are a minor detail, since it is a game I really do not care. Reason for me having a hard time seeing these as real persons is based on the rant of people about other games (*cough Overwatch *cough) where fans are mad over poses and sexualities. Which is kind of funny since its " just a game". The style is fine, love it! |
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Post by crocodile on Mar 31, 2017 8:25:39 GMT -6
I already posted these to the Fan Art galley but figured I'd post them here too - the first pieces of Anne Knolles fanart:  by MariaBlackRX by isakitomozou've spent the most part of the past day raving about Dominique and how awesome she is, that should tell you my overall opinion and excitement for this project . Someone can still be excited for something and/or love something whilst being slightly/mildly disappointed about specific aspects of it. I do not see any "he" or "she" since I only see a game. The design is beautiful on all of them and it's cool they are giving them life and all, but the game play experience is what I enjoy, really do not care if characters are cross between a teddy bear and a human in design, even though they are made out of pixels or cellshadings. Colors are a minor detail, since it is a game I really do not care. Reason for me having a hard time seeing these as real persons is based on the rant of people about other games (*cough Overwatch *cough) where fans are mad over poses and sexualities. Which is kind of funny since its " just a game". The style is fine, love it! Well if you can't be bothered to care I suppose that's your choice - I can't force you to do anything LOL. You do you I can only say that video games aren't created in a vacuum but are the products of humans and consumed by humans. Just like books, paintings, movies, tv shows, etc. that means they by default carry all the good and bad that means. I can only recommend you try not to be dismissive of how others feel or what they care about (be they mild feelings or intense feelings). What may not matter to you matters to others - "its just a game" as a deflection does more to irk others than make valuable contributions to a discussion. I'm a bit puzzled though why you brought up those Overwatch examples since the first resulted in a new pose that pretty much everybody liked more and the later made more people happy than it did to bother a small minority (the reaction of which nobody really cared about since it was for dumb reasons). |
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Post by CastleDan on Mar 31, 2017 9:50:55 GMT -6
Here's my prediction (i hope I'm right) They've talked the friendship between the main characters: Johan-Miriam-Gebel. Gebel being the real bad guy I just don't buy. Misguided, angry? Sure....The leader of the castle for the time being? Definitely. However, I truly believe Alfred will be the real enemy when all is said and done. My theory is that Gebel will end up as our new Alucard of sorts, and Alfred will become our new Dracula (who is a father figure). Alfred is the real mastermind, and the one who caused the big rift if everything to begin with and when Gebel gets his head knocked a little he will realize this. I feel like this will truly be more castlevania than we think. It seems obvious why Alfred has a very Dracula like design, and I think that's completely intentional, and it seems even more obvious that Gebel looks more youthful because he's really the Alucard character gone wrong...(FOR NOW). Wouldn't be surprised if Gebel ends up being playable post game. IGA- If I guessed the twist of this story don't change it. Go for it and make me happy |
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Post by Enkeria on Mar 31, 2017 12:55:44 GMT -6
I dont know why I wrote all of it. Just hoping people can see the game as a game. But I understand after been thinking that people enjoy different types of ART, and that is what this came down to. Art art art.
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Post by crocodile on Apr 2, 2017 10:35:57 GMT -6
So I noticed in the update this quote: So is IGA not done writing the story/narrative? I remember past updates (from like a year ago) where he mentioned he wanted to finish writing things soon or was almost done. I guess I'm surprised he hasn't finished yet? Granted the game is at least a year off but I imagine having the story wrapped up makes the actual creation of the game easier and more cohesive? It would influence level and boss design at the very least. Approximately how done would you estimate IGA is with the story/narrative Mana ? Are there more major characters waiting to be revealed (a yes/no is a good enough answer at this point)? Or only/at least more villagers (ala Order of Ecclesia)? |
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Post by Enkeria on Apr 2, 2017 13:24:16 GMT -6
"almost done", things will change minutes before the story are layed out. I think more and more things are unfold as the story progresses. Meaning that IGA do not know how it will end just yet, and to make it clear - many endings will take part in Bloodstained, but only one is true, if not the endings all have a common theme, which will be translated into a second part if Bloodstained does well at the box office (is that a term used only for movies?)
I think the characters are created, get strong goals, then are fleshed out while the game is developed. While the start, middle and end (of part 1) is finished, everything in between are probably something that are flexible, some details may also get "lost in translation" and others just hidden / deleted. This to get the fans going, speaking of the characters in fan fictions and such, which later on become one of many sources for IGA to come back to, see what the fans believe in, what they want and how he should do it.
For example, having NPC, mysterious ones.. When the game ends, the story are not fully explained on what happens to these NPCs perhaps, leaving more room to evolve them over time, even post launch, post success and post Bloodstained 2, if this is a thing. Spin-offs can easier be made and trivia can expand with just pillars of story, with our imagination as the path.
I hope the story isn't done, and "never will be". The details should be there, but leaving it up to us to decide things, which could be expanded and become canon later on by IGA or people that may have a saying in the stories of Bloodstained, and its legacy that will follow.
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Post by neff on Apr 2, 2017 17:37:52 GMT -6
It is my hope that the game's story gets out from under Ecclesia's shadow. It might be easier to do than it looks, Since it sounds like Gebel's castle is a means to an end, not the end itself.
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Post by Galamoth on Apr 2, 2017 17:51:17 GMT -6
It is my hope that the game's story gets out from under Ecclesia's shadow. It might be easier to do than it looks, Since it sounds like Gebel's castle is a means to an end, not the end itself. The original reason Gebel summoned the Castle was out of a desire to give Miriam a new home. Now, as Gebel doesn't seem to recall why he did it, the Castle is apparently the means by which Demons enter the natural world. |
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Post by crocodile on Apr 2, 2017 20:41:12 GMT -6
"almost done", things will change minutes before the story are layed out. I think more and more things are unfold as the story progresses. Meaning that IGA do not know how it will end just yet, and to make it clear - many endings will take part in Bloodstained, but only one is true, if not the endings all have a common theme, which will be translated into a second part if Bloodstained does well at the box office (is that a term used only for movies?) I think the characters are created, get strong goals, then are fleshed out while the game is developed. While the start, middle and end (of part 1) is finished, everything in between are probably something that are flexible, some details may also get "lost in translation" and others just hidden / deleted. This to get the fans going, speaking of the characters in fan fictions and such, which later on become one of many sources for IGA to come back to, see what the fans believe in, what they want and how he should do it. For example, having NPC, mysterious ones.. When the game ends, the story are not fully explained on what happens to these NPCs perhaps, leaving more room to evolve them over time, even post launch, post success and post Bloodstained 2, if this is a thing. Spin-offs can easier be made and trivia can expand with just pillars of story, with our imagination as the path. I hope the story isn't done, and "never will be". The details should be there, but leaving it up to us to decide things, which could be expanded and become canon later on by IGA or people that may have a saying in the stories of Bloodstained, and its legacy that will follow. What you're trying to describe is the groundwork for future projects, not the overall narrative itself. However, that is only part of the whole picture. Having a completed narrative with all the major twists and endings planned out, all the major characters created and their roles/general interactions decided, etc. is important to the creation of the game overall. Similar to how you want to make an outline before writing a paper, or figure out the plot before you start writing a script or filming. If say an observatory is important to the plot, you probably want to figure that out before you design all the areas in the game  This far out, I don't expect everything to be nailed down yet - some things can be in flux. His words suggest however that less is nailed down at this point than I would expect which strikes me as surprising. Especially given his prior statements on the subject made so long ago. I'm just curious as to where things stand. |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 2, 2017 21:47:07 GMT -6
Well, if you recall from the Christmas BCB, Mana told us that there was an existing story "done", but they're still not quite happy with it yet. She said that at one point for instance, he showed her what he had and asked her opinion, and she herself suggested some degree of change from how it sounded to me.
Like I mentioned in another post elsewhere recently, it's a big undertaking, so I'm all for him taking his time. There's a lot to consider for the future, and we all know Castlevania was not built as well as it could have been to accommodate a focused narrative. Some corrections, subtractions and re-additions had to be done to make it work, how it ended up.
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Post by crocodile on Apr 2, 2017 22:10:35 GMT -6
Well, if you recall from the Christmas BCB, Mana told us that there was an existing story "done", but they're still not quite happy with it yet. She said that at one point for instance, he showed her what he had and asked her opinion, and she herself suggested some degree of change from how it sounded to me. Like I mentioned in another post elsewhere recently, it's a big undertaking, so I'm all for him taking his time. There's a lot to consider for the future, and we all know Castlevania was not built as well as it could have been to accommodate a focused narrative. Some corrections, subtractions and re-additions had to be done to make it work, how it ended up. I'll re-listen to that episode. Overall, I agree with everything you've said - I'd rather something well-crafted that can be easily built upon in the future than a cliche ridden hodge-podge. I'm more surprised (again given previous comments) than concerned. Though I'm also curious how this affects the construction of the game with regards to the world and castle design. Still working out the details is one thing but it sounds like some pretty big things are still up in the air? I could be off though which is why I'm poking around or at least wondering out loud. EDIT: I could also be reading too much into things. There is a difference between the overall narrative and some of the specific details that are more prone to be in flux. I dunno |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 2, 2017 23:14:17 GMT -6
Here's the specific snippet I'm referring to btw:
Hah, I guess this was your own question lol
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Post by crocodile on Apr 2, 2017 23:35:10 GMT -6
Here's the specific snippet I'm referring to btw: Hah, I guess this was your own question lol I rechecked the episode (and my notes LOL) and what IGA said (granted his words were translated) in this update and what Mana said in the BCB don't totally match up. Its probably best to take Mana's word on the subject - they are older (so its possibly that a bigger rework may have happened than originally planned) but since they are straight from her mouth and she's fluent in both languages I put more faith in their meaning being clear and accurate than IGA's words which are translated by a third party. He may also just be the type who has a way of speaking that obfuscates the true meaning of his statements or gives an erroneous impression in this circumstance. |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 3, 2017 1:18:57 GMT -6
"I could also be reading too much into things."
That may be it, heh
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Post by neff on Apr 3, 2017 5:26:15 GMT -6
Now I'm interested in the special attack details! that could give shoes the extra kick they need for their range!  |
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Post by Mana on Apr 5, 2017 0:14:28 GMT -6
So I noticed in the update this quote: So is IGA not done writing the story/narrative? I remember past updates (from like a year ago) where he mentioned he wanted to finish writing things soon or was almost done. I guess I'm surprised he hasn't finished yet? Granted the game is at least a year off but I imagine having the story wrapped up makes the actual creation of the game easier and more cohesive? It would influence level and boss design at the very least. Approximately how done would you estimate IGA is with the story/narrative Mana ? Are there more major characters waiting to be revealed (a yes/no is a good enough answer at this point)? Or only/at least more villagers (ala Order of Ecclesia)? The way IGA writes up his update should be read in a more humorous way. When he mentions,"Maybe I can finally write up our story?" he means it in a slightly sarcastic way. The basic storyline is complete, no doubt. There's definitely room for minor tweaking and details to emphasize the Bloodstained narrative, which could be the reason why he is "actively building the story." He also mentions voice actors... This suggests that he has most of the dialogues complete, ready for recording. It should be noted that we are 2-3 steps ahead of what we're publicly announcing. Maybe I was too quick to share that bit on the BCB purifyweirdshard mentioned, but it's definitely more reassuring to the community to know that the story is mostly done than to say, not complete at all. I hope that clears up the mismatch . |
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. Someone can still be excited for something and/or love something whilst being slightly/mildly disappointed about specific aspects of it.
This far out, I don't expect everything to be nailed down yet - some things can be in flux. His words suggest however that less is nailed down at this point than I would expect which strikes me as surprising. Especially given his prior statements on the subject made so long ago. I'm just curious as to where things stand. 
