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Post by dareka on Nov 25, 2016 13:27:38 GMT -6
So based on my guess, everything laid out so far: Concept & Core development: Artplay & Inti CreatesMassive Content Production: DICONetwork & Online features, Debugging etc. : MonobitPublishing: 505 Games
Localization: Not decided yet. and I'd really like to hear opinion about this update from someone who is "inside the scene"  dareka Well, Mana has already posted more information, so I don't know if I can provide anything more than a summary, but here goes. Game Design/Planning: Art Play / Inti Creates. Concept Art/Basic Game Structure: Inti Creates. Main production/Development: DICO. Game Engine/Technical Support: Monobit. Publisher: 505 Games. So, what I think happened, in short. 1. They had the basic game design, the concept art, the game structure and the shader's look all more or less locked.
2. They went into mass production of assets and full implementation of the game...
3. ...at which point it became apparent that Inti's way out of its depth: 3.1 The art is not being generated fast enough. 3.2 What's being generated is taking up too much memory. 3.3 They're having trouble porting the game engine to other platforms, despite using UE4. 3.4 Heck, even the lead PC version has more bugs than they can handle. 3.7 IGA can't concentrate on polishing, because of all the fires he needs to put out. 4. So at this point, IGA realizes that, to finish, they'll have to drop the quality of the assets and delay the game. He's looking at another MN9, basically.
5. Being the great guy and responsible project manager that he is, IGA says to Inti, " Guys, you know how much I respect your work and how great it is. But I gotta tell ya, I need a team with a more efficient approach to development and greater knowledge of UE4 if we're gonna get this done." Inti, being the reasonable people they are, admit he's right, and agree to see the project through to the end in a diminished capacity (i.e., no more development, just design and art). 6. Possibly (pure speculation based on a hunch), a previous publisher balks at the delay and the budget increase that the changes will entail. IGA finds a new publisher in 505 games. 7. Nervously, IGA announces the changes to his fans. Unexpectedly, fans show an overwhelming amount of support. 8. They bring in a team with a more efficient development style to basically reimplement the game from scratch (toss away all of Inti's code and just keep all the assets and shaders they can), from a new engine built by Monobit. 9. Everybody's happy! Cue Final Fantasy Fanfare. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 13:51:12 GMT -6
dareka; I couldn't help but imagine a peppy narrator, equipped with a colorful picture book and sitting next to a fireplace, reading your post aloud in a warm, gentle tone as I went through it. Well done.
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Post by Astaroth on Nov 25, 2016 14:12:48 GMT -6
So based on my guess, everything laid out so far: Concept & Core development: Artplay & Inti CreatesMassive Content Production: DICONetwork & Online features, Debugging etc. : MonobitPublishing: 505 Games
Localization: Not decided yet. and I'd really like to hear opinion about this update from someone who is "inside the scene" dareka Well, Mana has already posted more information, so I don't know if I can provide anything more than a summary, but here goes. Game Design/Planning: Art Play / Inti Creates. Concept Art/Basic Game Structure: Inti Creates. Main production/Development: DICO. Game Engine/Technical Support: Monobit. Publisher: 505 Games. So, what I think happened, in short. 1. They had the basic game design, the concept art, the game structure and the shader's look all more or less locked.
2. They went into mass production of assets and full implementation of the game...
3. ...at which point it became apparent that Inti's way out of its depth: 3.1 The art is not being generated fast enough. 3.2 What's being generated is taking up too much memory. 3.3 They're having trouble porting the game engine to other platforms, despite using UE4. 3.4 Heck, even the lead PC version has more bugs than they can handle. 3.7 IGA can't concentrate on polishing, because of all the fires he needs to put out. 4. So at this point, IGA realizes that, to finish, they'll have to drop the quality of the assets and delay the game. He's looking at another MN9, basically.
5. Being the great guy and responsible project manager that he is, IGA says to Inti, " Guys, you know how much I respect your work and how great it is. But I gotta tell ya, I need a team with a more efficient approach to development and greater knowledge of UE4 if we're gonna get this done." Inti, being the reasonable people they are, admit he's right, and agree to see the project through to the end in a diminished capacity (i.e., no more development, just design and art). 6. Possibly (pure speculation based on a hunch), a previous publisher balks at the delay and the budget increase that the changes will entail. IGA finds a new publisher in 505 games. 7. Nervously, IGA announces the changes to his fans. Unexpectedly, fans show an overwhelming amount of support. 8. They bring in a team with a more efficient development style to basically reimplement the game from scratch (toss away all of Inti's code and just keep all the assets and shaders they can), from a new engine built by Monobit. 9. Everybody's happy! Cue Final Fantasy Fanfare. thats probably fairly accurate (maybe not cascading bugs since you build one version of the game first and then use ue4 to export to other systems and then optimize those versions, and i seriously doubt point 8s accurate, codes code and ue4 IS the engine) although just because inti has a slightly reduced role because now they arent handling asset creation AND asset implementation, doesnt mean their role is less important now they are handling asset CREATION and DICO/monobit are handling asset IMPLEMENTATION and UE4 toolkit production, that means inti is freed up to do what they are best at, while someone specialized makes sure it all gets into the game and theres someone making sure its all done in a timely manner ^_^ |
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Post by m0nkf15h on Nov 25, 2016 14:43:41 GMT -6
dareka that is interesting conjecture, it might not be exactly how things happened but it certainly gives food for thought. The way you jump from 3.4 to 3.7 is also intriguing, something you choose not to post?
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Post by dareka on Nov 25, 2016 23:59:22 GMT -6
Well, Mana has already posted more information, so I don't know if I can provide anything more than a summary, but here goes. Game Design/Planning: Art Play / Inti Creates. Concept Art/Basic Game Structure: Inti Creates. Main production/Development: DICO. Game Engine/Technical Support: Monobit. Publisher: 505 Games. So, what I think happened, in short. 1. They had the basic game design, the concept art, the game structure and the shader's look all more or less locked.
2. They went into mass production of assets and full implementation of the game...
3. ...at which point it became apparent that Inti's way out of its depth: 3.1 The art is not being generated fast enough. 3.2 What's being generated is taking up too much memory. 3.3 They're having trouble porting the game engine to other platforms, despite using UE4. 3.4 Heck, even the lead PC version has more bugs than they can handle. 3.7 IGA can't concentrate on polishing, because of all the fires he needs to put out. 4. So at this point, IGA realizes that, to finish, they'll have to drop the quality of the assets and delay the game. He's looking at another MN9, basically.
5. Being the great guy and responsible project manager that he is, IGA says to Inti, " Guys, you know how much I respect your work and how great it is. But I gotta tell ya, I need a team with a more efficient approach to development and greater knowledge of UE4 if we're gonna get this done." Inti, being the reasonable people they are, admit he's right, and agree to see the project through to the end in a diminished capacity (i.e., no more development, just design and art). 6. Possibly (pure speculation based on a hunch), a previous publisher balks at the delay and the budget increase that the changes will entail. IGA finds a new publisher in 505 games. 7. Nervously, IGA announces the changes to his fans. Unexpectedly, fans show an overwhelming amount of support. 8. They bring in a team with a more efficient development style to basically reimplement the game from scratch (toss away all of Inti's code and just keep all the assets and shaders they can), from a new engine built by Monobit. 9. Everybody's happy! Cue Final Fantasy Fanfare. thats probably fairly accurate (maybe not cascading bugs since you build one version of the game first and then use ue4 to export to other systems and then optimize those versions, and i seriously doubt point 8s accurate, codes code and ue4 IS the engine) although just because inti has a slightly reduced role because now they arent handling asset creation AND asset implementation, doesnt mean their role is less important now they are handling asset CREATION and DICO/monobit are handling asset IMPLEMENTATION and UE4 toolkit production, that means inti is freed up to do what they are best at, while someone specialized makes sure it all gets into the game and theres someone making sure its all done in a timely manner ^_^ A little elaboration on point 8... There are different level's of engines, right? Even if you have the UE4, there's the game's "engine" built on top of that. That's what I meant. The tossing out of code from Inti, though... I mean, I doubt they'd keep much of anything non-shader related. It's pretty clear the overhaul needed is pretty big. When that happens, at least from my experience, it's easier to toss the whole thing out and start again from scratch rather than to try to salvage unsuitable code. This is also consistent with a delay of roughly a year. |
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Post by dareka on Nov 26, 2016 0:06:25 GMT -6
dareka that is interesting conjecture, it might not be exactly how things happened but it certainly gives food for thought. The way you jump from 3.4 to 3.7 is also intriguing, something you choose not to post? Sorry, messed up. Did clear 3.5 and 3.6, but don't remember what they were. Some speculation I didn't feel strongly about, I think. I also tried to be careful with the wording of 3.3 and 3.4. I didn't mean bugs were spilling in from the lead version to the others, just that there may have been some issues when moving from one platform to another. Lots of reasons why this may happen, especially if developers are not that proficient in the middleware - but yes, it's the most speculativie of the bunch. |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Nov 27, 2016 18:19:28 GMT -6
I was away for the weekend, but I did see the update and read through this thread.
As with Elfina's post earlier for example, I don't think we need to speculate who's involved at this point, as of the time of this video being posted, it was clear to me from previous information what all was going on. However, a good point is made that to the more casual observer, or someone only getting information from reading an occasional update, it may all look quite a bit more confusing.
I have most of the text done for my con presentation on Bloodstained, which includes a pretty thorough itemization of who each group/person is working on the project. Maybe some way I can share that to a wider group online so it's an easy reference for "who's doing what again?" Will have to add DICO and Monobit now.
I don't know much about those folks, myself, but the feeling I get regarding them is that yes, IGA has worked with one individual from these groups before and has confidence in them, and they are clearly fans of his work. You may not as much get both of those boosts from other groups, even the highest profile ones would lack such an indie spark "hey, I worked with this guy before" and "wow, these guys really know my games and really want it".
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Post by Astaroth on Nov 30, 2016 15:23:23 GMT -6
i gotcha on point 8, salvage what you can of whats already been done and start fresh elsewhere
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Dec 2, 2016 1:24:04 GMT -6
i gotcha on point 8, salvage what you can of whats already been done and start fresh elsewhere Indeed. There's nothing worse than making something, and thinking of an add-on, just to realize that the idea you envision for the add-on doesn't match with the original concept. I'm glad that IGA decided to do this instead. I would rather him start breaking things down to their fundamentals, and re-establishing that he has the correct 'clay' if you will, to work with. Trying to do something when it clearly isn't going to work is not only pointless but stupid. I wonder how the game will look since they 'kept most of the assets' from the demo. Hmm. From the IGN pictures that were taken not so long ago, it pretty much still looks the same, so that reassures me. :) |
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Post by JoJo on Dec 2, 2016 4:14:34 GMT -6
So, IGA have set his proper foundation on the teaming, that is how I'm seeing it after looking at the interview and what Mana clarified with us So, this also guarantees the speed of the development, I presume? with Monobit helping with the technical aspect of UE4 And DICO helping ArtPlay with main development directly |
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