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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 27, 2016 9:20:21 GMT -6
I just wanted to bring up something that's been on my mind lately.
Many of you out there, what was the first thing you did when you found a new weapon in SotN? You were probably like me and equipped it to see if it had any special attacks. You gave it the back to forward input and the quarter circle forward, met with mild disappointment if it didn't do anything special. This was a large part of the joy of exploration in SotN to me, happening upon new weapons and subsequently happening upon the unique attacks they could do.
My hopes for Bloodstained initially were that it would be a game quite similar, except that when we find one of those weapons with special attacks and attributes we like, we can augment it with crafting so that no weapon we really like falls behind when we eventually get the Crissaegrims, Muramasas, Osafune Katanas (rarely mentioned lol) and Shield Rod/Alucard Shield. If you really liked something obscure that you were attached to mid way through the game, maybe you find materials later in the castle that make it more worthwhile again. Your Moon Rod fires off more moons! The Nunchaku does more hits ands gets a special! The Icebrand/Thunderbrand, not having a Marsil equivalent, can still become strong elemental weapons with enhancements.
That was the main variety/collection style I was looking for. I'm not as into demon abilities and shard skills. I love weapons and specials. The two things don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive, what I'm talking about may actually still be in the game, but unfortunately I can see it downplayed to some degree in favor of various enemy abilities. At the very least, maybe Zangetsu or the third playable character will be more SotN with a fleshed out weapon system in the way I'm describing.
Part of why I arrived at these thoughts and ideas was from the emphasis on weapon voting, concept arts and crafting information early on. I'm not saying I'm disappointed yet, even, but just wanted to voice my feelings on all this.
edit: This was initially posted in the Special Attacks and Inputs thread in Game Feature Suggestions, but probably deserves its own topic since it is and certainly became a discussion unto itself. I just didn't want to draw too much attention to my own rant at first, haha. |
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 27, 2016 10:24:45 GMT -6
That video is awesome, I hadn't seen it before. I had intended to only watch it just for the bit you were talking about, but got sucked in for like an hour. This was several days ago, btw haha.
I just wanted to add something that's been on my mind lately. I almost made a new topic about it, but it really does relate fairly heavily to this existing thread.
Many of you out there, what was the first thing you did when you found a new weapon in SotN? You were probably like me and equipped it to see if it had any special attacks. You gave it the back to forward input and the quarter circle forward, met with mild disappointment if it didn't do anything special. This was a large part of the joy of exploration in SotN to me, happening upon new weapons and subsequently happening upon the unique attacks they could do.
My hopes for Bloodstained initially were that it would be a game quite similar, except that when we find one of those weapons with special attacks and attributes we like, we can augment it with crafting so that no weapon we really like falls behind when we eventually get the Crissaegrims, Muramasas, Osafune Katanas (rarely mentioned lol) and Shield Rod/Alucard Shield. If you really liked something obscure that you were attached to mid way through the game, maybe you find materials later in the castle that make it more worthwhile again. Your Moon Rod fires off more moons! The Nunchaku does more hits ands gets a special! The Icebrand/Thunderbrand, not having a Marsil equivalent, can still become strong elemental weapons with enhancements.
That was the main variety/collection style I was looking for. I'm not as into demon abilities and shard skills. I love weapons and specials. The two things don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive, what I'm talking about may actually still be in the game, but unfortunately I can see it downplayed to some degree in favor of various enemy abilities. At the very least, maybe Zangetsu or the third playable character will be more SotN with a fleshed out weapon system in the way I'm describing.
Part of why I arrived at these thoughts and ideas was from the emphasis on weapon voting, concept arts and crafting information early on. I'm not saying I'm disappointed yet, even, but just wanted to voice my feelings on all this. You need to be like...a motivational speaker or something... O_o Yeah I think it's a really good idea, and I hope that Alchemy doesn't inhibit JUST making new items, but updating old ones as well. Hopefully also on your point about demon abilities and weapons and abilities, I hope that IGA incorporates all of these elements, so that like you said, neither one is mutually exclusive. |
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Post by crocodile on Jul 27, 2016 14:30:25 GMT -6
That video is awesome, I hadn't seen it before. I had intended to only watch it just for the bit you were talking about, but got sucked in for like an hour. This was several days ago, btw haha.
I just wanted to add something that's been on my mind lately. I almost made a new topic about it, but it really does relate fairly heavily to this existing thread.
Many of you out there, what was the first thing you did when you found a new weapon in SotN? You were probably like me and equipped it to see if it had any special attacks. You gave it the back to forward input and the quarter circle forward, met with mild disappointment if it didn't do anything special. This was a large part of the joy of exploration in SotN to me, happening upon new weapons and subsequently happening upon the unique attacks they could do.
My hopes for Bloodstained initially were that it would be a game quite similar, except that when we find one of those weapons with special attacks and attributes we like, we can augment it with crafting so that no weapon we really like falls behind when we eventually get the Crissaegrims, Muramasas, Osafune Katanas (rarely mentioned lol) and Shield Rod/Alucard Shield. If you really liked something obscure that you were attached to mid way through the game, maybe you find materials later in the castle that make it more worthwhile again. Your Moon Rod fires off more moons! The Nunchaku does more hits ands gets a special! The Icebrand/Thunderbrand, not having a Marsil equivalent, can still become strong elemental weapons with enhancements.
That was the main variety/collection style I was looking for. I'm not as into demon abilities and shard skills. I love weapons and specials. The two things don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive, what I'm talking about may actually still be in the game, but unfortunately I can see it downplayed to some degree in favor of various enemy abilities. At the very least, maybe Zangetsu or the third playable character will be more SotN with a fleshed out weapon system in the way I'm describing.
Part of why I arrived at these thoughts and ideas was from the emphasis on weapon voting, concept arts and crafting information early on. I'm not saying I'm disappointed yet, even, but just wanted to voice my feelings on all this. Some of my biggest issues with SOTN was that a lot of these secrets were obtusely hidden to the point it was unlikely you were to reasonably stumble upon them (especially if you did have a guide or were talking with others) and that the game never gave you much inventive to really explore and master your arsenal. Lots of stuff was either "that was cool but I never need to use this so I'm just going to stick with what's simple or gives me the largest attack boost" or game-breaking degenerate (hello Shield Rod). Order of Ecclesia is a game I remember, though to be fair its been a while since I played it, that was challenging enough that you really had to change up your plan of attack or equipped glyphs and glyph combinations to succeed. It won't matter if Bloodstained has all the cool weapons and techniques in the world if I can steamroll the game on standard or ever Nightmare difficulty just based on weapon stats or never feeling the pressure to actually experiment. I know its a point I've belabored in the past but I do hope its something they are keenly aware of when balancing Bloodstained and designing enemies & enemy patterns. I'm not asking for obnoxious or impossible challenges - just challenges at all  TLDR: SOTN had a lot of content (I agree with you that its a super cool aspect of the game) under the surface but it never really encouraged you to use it or reward you for taking the time to experiment. |
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jul 27, 2016 18:46:35 GMT -6
That video is awesome, I hadn't seen it before. I had intended to only watch it just for the bit you were talking about, but got sucked in for like an hour. This was several days ago, btw haha.
I just wanted to add something that's been on my mind lately. I almost made a new topic about it, but it really does relate fairly heavily to this existing thread.
Many of you out there, what was the first thing you did when you found a new weapon in SotN? You were probably like me and equipped it to see if it had any special attacks. You gave it the back to forward input and the quarter circle forward, met with mild disappointment if it didn't do anything special. This was a large part of the joy of exploration in SotN to me, happening upon new weapons and subsequently happening upon the unique attacks they could do.
My hopes for Bloodstained initially were that it would be a game quite similar, except that when we find one of those weapons with special attacks and attributes we like, we can augment it with crafting so that no weapon we really like falls behind when we eventually get the Crissaegrims, Muramasas, Osafune Katanas (rarely mentioned lol) and Shield Rod/Alucard Shield. If you really liked something obscure that you were attached to mid way through the game, maybe you find materials later in the castle that make it more worthwhile again. Your Moon Rod fires off more moons! The Nunchaku does more hits ands gets a special! The Icebrand/Thunderbrand, not having a Marsil equivalent, can still become strong elemental weapons with enhancements.
That was the main variety/collection style I was looking for. I'm not as into demon abilities and shard skills. I love weapons and specials. The two things don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive, what I'm talking about may actually still be in the game, but unfortunately I can see it downplayed to some degree in favor of various enemy abilities. At the very least, maybe Zangetsu or the third playable character will be more SotN with a fleshed out weapon system in the way I'm describing.
Part of why I arrived at these thoughts and ideas was from the emphasis on weapon voting, concept arts and crafting information early on. I'm not saying I'm disappointed yet, even, but just wanted to voice my feelings on all this. Some of my biggest issues with SOTN was that a lot of these secrets were obtusely hidden to the point it was unlikely you were to reasonably stumble upon them (especially if you did have a guide or were talking with others) and that the game never gave you much inventive to really explore and master your arsenal. Lots of stuff was either "that was cool but I never need to use this so I'm just going to stick with what's simple or gives me the largest attack boost" or game-breaking degenerate (hello Shield Rod). Order of Ecclesia is a game I remember, though to be fair its been a while since I played it, that was challenging enough that you really had to change up your plan of attack or equipped glyphs and glyph combinations to succeed. It won't matter if Bloodstained has all the cool weapons and techniques in the world if I can steamroll the game on standard or ever Nightmare difficulty just based on weapon stats or never feeling the pressure to actually experiment. I know its a point I've belabored in the past but I do hope its something they are keenly aware of when balancing Bloodstained and designing enemies & enemy patterns. I'm not asking for obnoxious or impossible challenges - just challenges at all TLDR: SOTN had a lot of content (I agree with you that its a super cool aspect of the game) under the surface but it never really encouraged you to use it or reward you for taking the time to experiment. I can get behind you here about OoE. I explicitly remember,, just for example, Dracula's bat swarm royally wrecking me into the wall and I had no idea what to do about it, until I went through my Glyphs and discovered the Shield Glyph was just what I needed. There was probably something much easier I dint think about but the way the game really flexed the glyph system with movement and combat tools was great. One thing I hope is that with the possible exception of the WhipSword I don't want there to be one "best weapon" like the Claihm Solais from Aria, for example. One thing i loved about Portrait was that there were several strong, viable endgame weapons: Vampire Killer for Whips, Holy Claymore for Greatswords, Alucard Spear for...well spears etc. I have hope they will be veering closer to Portrait since they've already mentioned stuff like the SwordWhip and the Backer-Katana as being really strong weapons. I want there to be lots of cool builds to see as we co-op or compete with others. |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 27, 2016 19:59:14 GMT -6
Croc, well yeah, we've been over these things a few times before. The meaningfulness of all of SotN's options were definitely downplayed by its difficulty. I've gotten the sense from what Iga has been saying regarding this topic that he's not aiming to make an especially difficult game, though...I think even OoE's level is stretching it.
However, I think we can well assume that the balance of the game will be superior to late-game SotN. So my point toward these sensibilities would instead be to up-scale the strength and abilities of earlier weapons that the user may favor, so that even if the game ends up being broken down into 1-2 objectively "best" ways to play it/weapons to use (which always happens), those on a more intermediate level can more casually approach something the level viability of those best styles. The game being torn apart mechanically is almost an inevitability regardless of its difficulty, but even in that state of the game's life, variety/options and up-balancing can keep it very fun.
I would then like to see NG+ or Nightmare plays account for whatever OP-ness is discovered rather than a nerf patch. I wouldn't like to see that kind of a thing in this game, in the main game anyway, as at these games' core, they should be about having fun and getting stronger rather than progressing in a 100% intended sterile and controlled environment. That to me would run counter to the spirit of the adventure and exploratory nature.
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jul 27, 2016 20:52:08 GMT -6
I'd be VERY surprised if this game was as hard as OoE on its standard difficulty settings. I still remember how stunned a lot of reviewers were at it's difficulty. All of Iga's other games, bar Sotn (and Sotn itself feels less brutal tbg), aren't all that hard and then along comes OoE and that game just delights in pounding you into the dirt. Mostly because Shanoa was a lot frailer than previous protagonists and bosses really loved just 80%-ing her with big attacks. It was really cathartic and I do hope Nightmare difficulty can recapture that.
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Post by crocodile on Jul 27, 2016 20:55:15 GMT -6
Yeah I know we've touched upon it before but it was something that really affected my enjoyment/opinion of the game so I felt strongly I should mention it again. Sorry if I'm just trudging up old stuff  I agree with most of the points you've made (though I don't think any form of the game will represent a 100% controlled or sterile environment so that particular point is lost on me) - I just think its super important they better nail the game balance this time. Thinking about it, the Rouge-Like mode may provide a good avenue for experimentation. I'm super curious to see how that turns out even if it isn't the main attraction. |
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 27, 2016 21:07:15 GMT -6
Yeah I know we've touched upon it before but it was something that really affected my enjoyment/opinion of the game so I felt strongly I should mention it again. Sorry if I'm just trudging up old stuff :( I agree with most of the points you've made (though I don't think any form of the game will represent a 100% controlled or sterile environment so that particular point is lost on me) - I just think its super important they better nail the game balance this time. Thinking about it, the Rouge-Like mode may provide a good avenue for experimentation. I'm super curious to see how that turns out even if it isn't the main attraction. I totally agree, I think that Order of Ecclesia had just the right amount of difficulty. I LIKED that you had switch things up, a lot. I would even go as far as to say that dying at least once to every boss I encountered didn't bother me because I felt that a lot of time and effort had gone into making the Boss's AI, and that they should be as difficult as they are. And Symphony of the Night I also enjoyed because of the level of difficulty later on. (granted I didn't care for the sudden shift of intensity in the second castle, but it DID keep me on my toes) Difficulty doesn't bother, I like a good challenge. :p Also, edit, I just realized I quoted the wrong post, I meant your post before this one, crocodile! |
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jul 27, 2016 21:07:48 GMT -6
I mean maybe I'm looking at this too much like a more traditional RPG but I would LOVE if there were some real playstyle "builds" like a build that gears Miriam for improved speed, a set of glyphs that focus on mobility and traps, and a ranged weapon like Shanoa's bow glyphs VS a build that decks her in the heaviest armor she can wear with a big stained glass claymore and both of them could dish high damage and be viable ways to play the game.
I know it will likely happen but, as much as I truly think Aria of Sorrow is the best one, I do feel like the endgame is always "Claihm Solais, Dracula's Tunic, Chaos Ring" with the Legion Laser skill, Black Panther Dashing and Headhunter statmonger. I'd love to see spear users, katana builds, whip builds etc. Multiplayer will get pretty stale if everyone has the exact same things.
I know there will be people that use what they want, optimization be damned, but so many games just turn into the "Everyone just uses this because it has best numbers" and that just gets so boring.
and from a single player standpoint, well, I'd love to do NG+ runs with different weapons and have a good time without that nag in the back of my head that I'm "nerfing" myself in the name of "fun" and while using what I want is never not going to be more than valid, well, we've all seen those scrubby "oh, I use this inferior weapon becuse Im better than you and your optimized build" and I hate those snobs too XD
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 27, 2016 22:07:49 GMT -6
Yeah I know we've touched upon it before but it was something that really affected my enjoyment/opinion of the game so I felt strongly I should mention it again. Sorry if I'm just trudging up old stuff I agree with most of the points you've made (though I don't think any form of the game will represent a 100% controlled or sterile environment so that particular point is lost on me) - I just think its super important they better nail the game balance this time. Thinking about it, the Rouge-Like mode may provide a good avenue for experimentation. I'm super curious to see how that turns out even if it isn't the main attraction. No worries. I exaggerated on the sterility, you know how people talk on message boards/the internet. Needless hyperbole to draw attention to something they don't like in what they're talking about. If I wasn't in as much of a rush, I would have taken the extra adjectives and 100% part out, lol. You know what I mean. I mean maybe I'm looking at this too much like a more traditional RPG but I would LOVE if there were some real playstyle "builds" like a build that gears Miriam for improved speed, a set of glyphs that focus on mobility and traps, and a ranged weapon like Shanoa's bow glyphs VS a build that decks her in the heaviest armor she can wear with a big stained glass claymore and both of them could dish high damage and be viable ways to play the game. I know it will likely happen but, as much as I truly think Aria of Sorrow is the best one, I do feel like the endgame is always "Claihm Solais, Dracula's Tunic, Chaos Ring" with the Legion Laser skill, Black Panther Dashing and Headhunter statmonger. I'd love to see spear users, katana builds, whip builds etc. Multiplayer will get pretty stale if everyone has the exact same things. I know there will be people that use what they want, optimization be damned, but so many games just turn into the "Everyone just uses this because it has best numbers" and that just gets so boring. and from a single player standpoint, well, I'd love to do NG+ runs with different weapons and have a good time without that nag in the back of my head that I'm "nerfing" myself in the name of "fun" and while using what I want is never not going to be more than valid, well, we've all seen those scrubby "oh, I use this inferior weapon becuse Im better than you and your optimized build" and I hate those snobs too XD Yep, that's pretty much exactly the point I was making, haha. Yeah, it's not completely an RPG really, so maybe not builds, but definitely many strong options as opposed to just late game = best (or x/y discovered exploit, and while this most can't be helped, could be softened in its affect on the game by said options, crafting paths or even in combination with shard leveling). Anyway, slightly off track, but this all ties back in to special attacks. I think we've gotten about all the votes we're going to at this point, so maybe we'll draft up some summaries soon. I'm actually a bit surprised how only about 12% dislike these things. |
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 27, 2016 23:37:58 GMT -6
I mean maybe I'm looking at this too much like a more traditional RPG but I would LOVE if there were some real playstyle "builds" like a build that gears Miriam for improved speed, a set of glyphs that focus on mobility and traps, and a ranged weapon like Shanoa's bow glyphs VS a build that decks her in the heaviest armor she can wear with a big stained glass claymore and both of them could dish high damage and be viable ways to play the game. I know it will likely happen but, as much as I truly think Aria of Sorrow is the best one, I do feel like the endgame is always "Claihm Solais, Dracula's Tunic, Chaos Ring" with the Legion Laser skill, Black Panther Dashing and Headhunter statmonger. I'd love to see spear users, katana builds, whip builds etc. Multiplayer will get pretty stale if everyone has the exact same things. I know there will be people that use what they want, optimization be damned, but so many games just turn into the "Everyone just uses this because it has best numbers" and that just gets so boring. and from a single player standpoint, well, I'd love to do NG+ runs with different weapons and have a good time without that nag in the back of my head that I'm "nerfing" myself in the name of "fun" and while using what I want is never not going to be more than valid, well, we've all seen those scrubby "oh, I use this inferior weapon becuse Im better than you and your optimized build" and I hate those snobs too XD I think that differentiality will be a large aspect of what makes the Asynchronous Multiplayer so appealing. If people are using the exact same builds then there wouldn't be anything original to showcase, and it makes gameplay pretty stale. People wanting to make Miriam to THEIR liking is what I believe IGA has in mind for her customization. Another point that I would like to point out is the competitive scene. If Bloodstained is as large and varied and IGA and team are predicting, I think it's very likely that the online mode will see a competitive scene. And I must say that this excites me. Because if that IS the case, then that means that Miriam will have several different playstyles, one aspect possibly being the increases of a shard's effectiveness through alchemy, allowing her to customize her magic as well. Thinking on things like these prospects make me smile for the future of Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night. ALSO, I hope that alchemy is not only used to make new pieces of equipment, but to increase the effectiveness of already existing pieces as well. |
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jul 28, 2016 0:14:35 GMT -6
"Competitive Bloodstained". Now there's a phrase I did not think would ever come up XD. Granted if it happens, it will mean that the game is indeed well balanced with a number of powerful, viable options.
"There's xxVampireKillerxx's famous "Karate Miriam" kicking his way through the Cathedral, but xxBloodRondoxx just keeps pulling ahead with his tried-and-true "Pure Belmont" style! But what's this! xxBloodHuntressxx is coming up fast with her new "Shinobi" build! Look at her tear apart that boss with the backer-katana! Are we seeing the birth of a new meta?!
Lordie that would be funny.
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 28, 2016 19:23:39 GMT -6
That video is awesome, I hadn't seen it before. I had intended to only watch it just for the bit you were talking about, but got sucked in for like an hour. This was several days ago, btw haha.
I just wanted to add something that's been on my mind lately. I almost made a new topic about it, but it really does relate fairly heavily to this existing thread.
Many of you out there, what was the first thing you did when you found a new weapon in SotN? You were probably like me and equipped it to see if it had any special attacks. You gave it the back to forward input and the quarter circle forward, met with mild disappointment if it didn't do anything special. This was a large part of the joy of exploration in SotN to me, happening upon new weapons and subsequently happening upon the unique attacks they could do.
My hopes for Bloodstained initially were that it would be a game quite similar, except that when we find one of those weapons with special attacks and attributes we like, we can augment it with crafting so that no weapon we really like falls behind when we eventually get the Crissaegrims, Muramasas, Osafune Katanas (rarely mentioned lol) and Shield Rod/Alucard Shield. If you really liked something obscure that you were attached to mid way through the game, maybe you find materials later in the castle that make it more worthwhile again. Your Moon Rod fires off more moons! The Nunchaku does more hits ands gets a special! The Icebrand/Thunderbrand, not having a Marsil equivalent, can still become strong elemental weapons with enhancements.
That was the main variety/collection style I was looking for. I'm not as into demon abilities and shard skills. I love weapons and specials. The two things don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive, what I'm talking about may actually still be in the game, but unfortunately I can see it downplayed to some degree in favor of various enemy abilities. At the very least, maybe Zangetsu or the third playable character will be more SotN with a fleshed out weapon system in the way I'm describing.
Part of why I arrived at these thoughts and ideas was from the emphasis on weapon voting, concept arts and crafting information early on. I'm not saying I'm disappointed yet, even, but just wanted to voice my feelings on all this. Some of my biggest issues with SOTN was that a lot of these secrets were obtusely hidden to the point it was unlikely you were to reasonably stumble upon them (especially if you did have a guide or were talking with others) and that the game never gave you much inventive to really explore and master your arsenal. Lots of stuff was either "that was cool but I never need to use this so I'm just going to stick with what's simple or gives me the largest attack boost" or game-breaking degenerate (hello Shield Rod). Order of Ecclesia is a game I remember, though to be fair its been a while since I played it, that was challenging enough that you really had to change up your plan of attack or equipped glyphs and glyph combinations to succeed. It won't matter if Bloodstained has all the cool weapons and techniques in the world if I can steamroll the game on standard or ever Nightmare difficulty just based on weapon stats or never feeling the pressure to actually experiment. I know its a point I've belabored in the past but I do hope its something they are keenly aware of when balancing Bloodstained and designing enemies & enemy patterns. I'm not asking for obnoxious or impossible challenges - just challenges at all TLDR: SOTN had a lot of content (I agree with you that its a super cool aspect of the game) under the surface but it never really encouraged you to use it or reward you for taking the time to experiment. As we've argued before I loved that mysterious element because it kept me playing the game far longer than of the other games because I always wondered if there was more. The feeling that there could be some other easter egg is part of the enjoyment for me. HOWEVER, I agree that I hope if they go that route with this the items/weapons/spells have a bigger purpose so it satisfies both fans in that regard. |
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Post by Overlord on Jul 29, 2016 3:44:11 GMT -6
I completely agree. This is a big reason why none of these other "Metroidvania" games are as good as the Castlevanias. None of them have weapon systems like Castlevania.
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Post by allooutrick on Jul 31, 2016 18:59:48 GMT -6
A large source of the fun I've had in igavanias has been seeing what new weapons I could find and the locations that I would eventually discover with a new power up. Specifically in SotN's case I found myself using the weapons I thought looked the best since I was so over powered anyways.
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Elfina Ashfield
The Surreal Stargazer
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Post by Elfina Ashfield on Aug 1, 2016 0:44:06 GMT -6
That video is awesome, I hadn't seen it before. I had intended to only watch it just for the bit you were talking about, but got sucked in for like an hour. This was several days ago, btw haha.
I just wanted to add something that's been on my mind lately. I almost made a new topic about it, but it really does relate fairly heavily to this existing thread.
Many of you out there, what was the first thing you did when you found a new weapon in SotN? You were probably like me and equipped it to see if it had any special attacks. You gave it the back to forward input and the quarter circle forward, met with mild disappointment if it didn't do anything special. This was a large part of the joy of exploration in SotN to me, happening upon new weapons and subsequently happening upon the unique attacks they could do.
My hopes for Bloodstained initially were that it would be a game quite similar, except that when we find one of those weapons with special attacks and attributes we like, we can augment it with crafting so that no weapon we really like falls behind when we eventually get the Crissaegrims, Muramasas, Osafune Katanas (rarely mentioned lol) and Shield Rod/Alucard Shield. If you really liked something obscure that you were attached to mid way through the game, maybe you find materials later in the castle that make it more worthwhile again. Your Moon Rod fires off more moons! The Nunchaku does more hits ands gets a special! The Icebrand/Thunderbrand, not having a Marsil equivalent, can still become strong elemental weapons with enhancements.
That was the main variety/collection style I was looking for. I'm not as into demon abilities and shard skills. I love weapons and specials. The two things don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive, what I'm talking about may actually still be in the game, but unfortunately I can see it downplayed to some degree in favor of various enemy abilities. At the very least, maybe Zangetsu or the third playable character will be more SotN with a fleshed out weapon system in the way I'm describing.
Part of why I arrived at these thoughts and ideas was from the emphasis on weapon voting, concept arts and crafting information early on. I'm not saying I'm disappointed yet, even, but just wanted to voice my feelings on all this. Some of my biggest issues with SOTN was that a lot of these secrets were obtusely hidden to the point it was unlikely you were to reasonably stumble upon them (especially if you did have a guide or were talking with others) and that the game never gave you much inventive to really explore and master your arsenal. Lots of stuff was either "that was cool but I never need to use this so I'm just going to stick with what's simple or gives me the largest attack boost" or game-breaking degenerate (hello Shield Rod). Order of Ecclesia is a game I remember, though to be fair its been a while since I played it, that was challenging enough that you really had to change up your plan of attack or equipped glyphs and glyph combinations to succeed. It won't matter if Bloodstained has all the cool weapons and techniques in the world if I can steamroll the game on standard or ever Nightmare difficulty just based on weapon stats or never feeling the pressure to actually experiment. I know its a point I've belabored in the past but I do hope its something they are keenly aware of when balancing Bloodstained and designing enemies & enemy patterns. I'm not asking for obnoxious or impossible challenges - just challenges at all TLDR: SOTN had a lot of content (I agree with you that its a super cool aspect of the game) under the surface but it never really encouraged you to use it or reward you for taking the time to experiment. Agreed on every word you mentioned about OoE. That game almost enforce you to try different glyph combinations and strategies otherwise you'll be in trouble pretty soon. I'd be really happy if IGA could ramp up the difficulty for BS compared with SoTN (but OoE-level of hard might be too much ) |
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Olrox
New Blood
IGA Take my energyつ ◕_◕ ༽つ
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IGA Take my energyつ ◕_◕ ༽つ
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Post by Olrox on Aug 3, 2016 10:19:03 GMT -6
I know it will likely happen but, as much as I truly think Aria of Sorrow is the best one, I do feel like the endgame is always "Claihm Solais, Dracula's Tunic, Chaos Ring" with the Legion Laser skill, Black Panther Dashing and Headhunter statmonger. I'd love to see spear users, katana builds, whip builds etc. Multiplayer will get pretty stale if everyone has the exact same things. This would be awesome IMO, it gives more of a traditional RPG feeling of customization. I do however feel that the swordwhip is gonna be the endgame weapon for everybody, well at least for backers, because as a combination of both main weapons I expect it to have some wierd combos, extreme damage and utility if not being alright broken ala crissaegrim. But different endgame weapons for the normal version would be amazing. |
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