Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jun 26, 2016 1:59:36 GMT -6
It's been a while since i don't create a new thread with a suggestion, so, here goes a new one, with a poll too!
A LITTLE HISTORY
Long time ago, when IGA was director of the Castlevania franchise, he gave a lot of interviews. I read most of, and i remember that he said that the first thing he and his team made up when forging a new IGAvania game, was the battle/magic/power system. And then, built they plot around that.
Back then, when he made Dawn of Sorrow, he was asked why he was repeating the Soul Dominance (the magic system form Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow). He specifically said that, for him, on his own opinion, the Soul Dominance was the best magic/power system he and his team ever created. They where at the peak of creativity. I totally agree with IGA when he said himself that.
THE SHARD SYSTEM AND IT'S PROBLEM
The Shard System is a remade of the Soul Dominance. And that is great. As i said, i totally agree with him when he said that the Soul Dominance was the best system they ever made. But i do have a little thing i didn't like at the System. The fact that Morte has no Shard.
Since Morte has no Shard, that means the game will feature more enemies that has no Shard. At Soul Dominance , 100% of enemies had Souls (with the exception of human enemies), with even forced the Dev team to be REALLY creative, making up some really odd and weird powers for some enemies that was really hard to made up something. And i loved that.
I think all enemies must have Shards. And i will defend my position of why.
WHY I THINK ALL ENEMIES SHOULD HAVE SHARDS
Considering how close the Shard System is with the Soul Dominance, here are some arguments of why i think all enemies should have shards:
1) Gameplay Variety: more shards, means more powers, means more gameplay variety. I know that even at Soul Dominance from Aria/Dawn, some powers became a little repetitive (throw daggers, throw bloodied daggers, throw swords...) but even so, variety adds to the fun factor.
2) The Surprise and curiosity effect: At Aria and Dawn of Sorrow, when you saw a new enemy, the first thing you thought was "look at that monster. What kind of Soul that thing will give me?" that factor is lost if not all enemies had shards. I want to see the dev team at it's creative peak, forced to made up powers for the strangest, most weird enemies that this game will have.
3) If everything fails, put at Enchant: Aria and Dawn of Sorrow had an Enchant type soul. And a lot of enemies had that, because it is easier to create. So, if the dev team can't really think of a power for that small fly demon that does nothing, put at enchant, with a bonus or a effect that doesn't need a lot of work.
THE POLL AND CLOSING COMMENTS
So, that's my opinion. I made a poll so we can vocalize that. You think Morte and all enemies should have Shards?
That's all folks!
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ChucklesTheJester
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Post by ChucklesTheJester on Jun 26, 2016 3:28:20 GMT -6
I think you're overlooking a very real possibility - that every enemy might not have a shard that's usable as an ability, but some of them might drop crafting materials for improving other shards and/or gear.
Why do I say that not every enemy needs to have a usable shard? It's real simple. There's only so much variety you can have before you start having things that are simply redundant at best and completely worthless at worst. This way, you can still have the excitement (and frustration) that comes with hunting for a specific drop without flooding the game with pointless amounts of crystal shards. Enemies who don't have shards should drop crafting materials instead. Think about that.
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Kaius
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Post by Kaius on Jun 26, 2016 4:35:54 GMT -6
IGA and Ben Judd told in the gameplay stream on Twitch that Morte has no shard because it's only an half demon. Only 'real', 'full' demons have shards.
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Post by Saint Germain on Jun 26, 2016 5:11:26 GMT -6
I personally am fine with every enemy not having a shard. But I would like every enemy to drop something, be it a shard, consumable, crafting material, or rare item.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 26, 2016 6:10:12 GMT -6
First off I reject the notion that just because not every enemy might have a shard that there will be a dearth of shards and special abilities. It matters less that 100% of monsters have shards (and you even mentioned examples of past games where not every enemy had a soul drop) and more that there is a good number of shard and abilities at all and that they play well. IGA gave a very clear, narrative-driven reason for Morte to not have a shard. I mean of course you don't have to like it or agree but this was something with thought put into it not just a random design decision or one with potentially serious flaws. So while you can be disappointed, respect the creator's decision?  |
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Post by joelsoh on Jun 26, 2016 9:15:58 GMT -6
It'd be nice if they all had shards, but it isn't necessary. I would like to know beforehand, somehow, to not farm a certain opponent because it doesn't have a shard.
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Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jun 26, 2016 13:25:45 GMT -6
I don't think this is a serious flaw, it is just a small problem for me, that i would want to see differently. But i do have confidence on IGA and the dev team. And yes, Morte has no Shard because that creature is a half-demon, it has some context and i like that.
ANyway, i wanted to see if i was alone n that matter, and i think i am haha.
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Shax
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Post by Shax on Jun 26, 2016 13:37:08 GMT -6
While I like the idea of every enemy dropping a Shard, I'm gonna have to vote "no." As I'm sure someone has stated, there is a point where the shards just kinda "melds" together because there are simply too many of them. In terms of quality of quantity, I'm going to pick quality since it is better for the game in the long run. On the bright side, it looks like there are going to be quite a few shards in the game anyways.
Plus, just imagine what the drops rates are gonna have to be to even everything out. The Amy shard in the Demo gave me a headache as is.
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Jun 26, 2016 13:49:53 GMT -6
Pure Miriam I understand what you mean, it would be nice to see every enemy have a shard, and yes I do agree it would push the devs to think really creatively (actually it would be awesome to see that kind of game) but this castle will have A LOT of monsters in it, so having a shard for each monster might be a bit hard (though I do think there will be enough for us to have fun with) and there will be a crafting system in this game as well which I think there will be a item and/or monster core for every monster out there. Though I do go with the majority that it is not needed, I still think your idea is way cool and if Mort did have a shard, I think it would be cool of it could be used to turn into slime to reach unreachable areas.. or stick to the wall or ceiling.
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LeoLeWolferoux
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jun 26, 2016 15:10:13 GMT -6
I think you're overlooking a very real possibility - that every enemy might not have a shard that's usable as an ability, but some of them might drop crafting materials for improving other shards and/or gear. Why do I say that not every enemy needs to have a usable shard? It's real simple. There's only so much variety you can have before you start having things that are simply redundant at best and completely worthless at worst. This way, you can still have the excitement (and frustration) that comes with hunting for a specific drop without flooding the game with pointless amounts of crystal shards. Enemies who don't have shards should drop crafting materials instead. Think about that. I totally agree. It's just like writing a song. I'd rather have less songs, with complete original features, than have a BUNCH of songs, each one sounding similar to another. And I think another good point Mr. Chuckles pointed out is that we know very little about the Forging features that the game will include. Remember in Dawn of Sorow, where Yoko could infuse weapons with the souls of fallen monsters, to create entirely new weapons? Maybe there'll be a similar concept in this game, but the opposite will hold true. Let me give you an example: Buer: CON booster. Increases CON passively when equipped. Well...if there's anything I know about Koji, it's that there will probably be better versions of said 'Buer'. (With different names of course) Perhaps this stronger version won't drop a shard, but rather materials to increase the effectiveness of the Buer shard...? Perhaps a bigger bonus to the increased CON? (Since they're from the same 'family', we'll say) I'd say we better not jump to conclusions, until the beta comes out, or at least until we know more about the Forging system. :] |
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 28, 2016 12:40:42 GMT -6
Morte is essentially a CV1-style zombie. A whole bunch of them may spawn in any given area, they are in multiple areas, and they die in 1 hit. If it did drop a shard, ignoring lore reasons and all that, I imagine we would get them constantly. Even with a drop rate like Amy's, it may take a bit of the excitement away of seeing the shard pop out if Mortes everywhere drop shards. There's the consideration also of what exactly duplicate shards will do - if they for example restore MP in the full game which is one theory, then the meaningfulness of that effect might be lessened by deciding to farm nearby Mortes whenever you get low instead of ether or save points.
I would be fine with it if he did, personally, but I'm cool with how it is either way. I'm imagining a minority of very lesser, weak enemies and not-quite-monsters (fish, animals) not having shards.
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 28, 2016 14:04:17 GMT -6
If all enemies had shards there would be a lot of filler abilities and I know in the DS games I had a lot of abilities that I just simply never used. I rather them focus on a GOOD amount of awesome abilities than try to spread ideas thin.
Which seems very anti-me but in this area it's something that always bugged me.
It's actually funny how little we really know right now despite playing the game. We haven't seen anything on the crafting system and what comes of it, and we haven't seen anything on the familiars. Do they level up? Do they have a good sense of personality?
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EbonAnimus
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Post by EbonAnimus on Jun 28, 2016 14:45:00 GMT -6
I think IGA has a reason for not giving them all a shard.
Maybe beings like Morte will give something to other playable characters^^
We´ll see in the future why he decided this way for sure.
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Post by m0nkf15h on Jun 30, 2016 14:23:58 GMT -6
As a shard is supposed to be a Demon's Power crystalised it makes logical sense that not all demons have shards; in Morte's case i would suggest that it does not have enough power to form a crystal shard, as its basically a sludge with humanoid form.
Having said this i would expect most enemies to have shards - I think a shard should always have some kind of use either equipt to Miriam or used to craft items, they should never be wasted or considered useless even if they contain a weak ability.
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BloodyTears92
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jun 30, 2016 15:00:10 GMT -6
I also feel like its fine if there are enemies that don't drop shards. I'd rather have 30 abilities that are effective and unique as opposed to 100 abilities where you inevitably have overlap. There are other things enemies can drop: consumables, equipment, crafting materials etc.So Maybe the Crow Demon doesnt drop a shard (though I imagine that Stained Glass Crow will be a summon shard like Amy) but he drops an item that makes a wind-katana or something. The crafting system allows for a lot of "drop flexibility" on top of the shard abilities.
Plus the idea of augmenting your weapons with drops from enemies as you progress means there could be less clutter in the game world itself. Need there be 12 whips lying around the castle? Or just 2-3 that get crafted into 3 really powerful whips with cool effects?
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Post by asterra on Jul 1, 2016 0:45:04 GMT -6
I don't think this is a serious flaw, it is just a small problem for me, that i would want to see differently. But i do have confidence on IGA and the dev team. And yes, Morte has no Shard because that creature is a half-demon, it has some context and i like that. ANyway, i wanted to see if i was alone n that matter, and i think i am haha. For what it's worth, I agree with your sentiment, for precisely the reasons you outlined (and were largely ignored on), re the fact that mandated souls = forced creativity and de facto variety. Narrative-driven laziness will just result in an ability variety that is comprised, to a disappointing proportion, of legitimately useful abilities at the obvious expense of abilities which exist for the fun factor. We could not expect, for example, to see anyone throwing paper airplanes with a lethargic "Hoi." under such a system. I'm also very uncomfortable with the idea of monsters being limited to either shards or components. This again threatens variety. I'd be happier if most monsters had components they could drop, shards they may have, a common and a rare, and also a special item to steal, all faithfully tallied in the information panel, along with how many of each the player has found. (Stealing is a feature that is definitely on my wish list.) |
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WindsOfOsiris
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Post by WindsOfOsiris on Jul 1, 2016 21:31:36 GMT -6
Just make take on shardless morte, when i played the E3 demo for like the 27th time i tried to farm morte for a shard just to see if he had one, like most experienced Castlevania players i was familiar with the soul system in Soma's games and i figured he had one. after nearly a hour of chopping countless Morte heads off i thought well maybe Morte is like the mud men in SOTN there just a low-nothing minion meant to slow the hero down. but i do agree it would feel weird for them not to drop anything, i mean even the dang medusa heads dropped all kinds of things. i would at least be ok with morte dropping a Tattered cloth shirt.
However the E3 demo was made to be quickly played so more people could play, i mean Miriam didnt even have a voice yet, either there keeping it secret and/or its still being recorded. point being i think alot was left out in the demo for a reason, on top of that i dont even think demo was taken form the games stage. i hope we will get a full game staged demo later on. then we backers will get the beta soon after!
On another note, at least we know who David Hayner is voicing. but honestly i want to know who Robbie Belgrade is voicing more over David.
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LeoLeWolferoux
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 1, 2016 23:36:47 GMT -6
after nearly a hour of chopping countless Morte heads off Yup, sounds about right in the case of AoS and DoS. :p |
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Post by yoshi9048 on Jul 4, 2016 23:24:34 GMT -6
I object to the idea that you couldn't reasonably have an enormous variety of useful skills from shards.
The notion seems to be a dead-end of creativity when there's so many applicable skills that can work within the system.
I'd recommend a new thread be created that can flex the community's creative side. I'd expect many or most would already be in the game; but if worse comes to worst and they wanted to see fan input on skill designs, blam!
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Post by Ghostpepper on Jul 5, 2016 1:58:25 GMT -6
While it would be cool to get shards with unique powers it doesn't seem like a necessity as long as it's clear which demons aren't fully developed or marked as not having a shard somewhere easy to see or look up in game. Just like shanoa's glyphs.
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