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Post by Esper on Jun 24, 2016 8:21:07 GMT -6
I only really have two points of feedback.
#1: It can be difficult at times to see which things Miriam can jump on and which are just part of the background. I think the game would greatly benefit from having it be more clear what is a landable platform and what is not.
#2: Miriam's scarf should flutter a bit more when she's walking forward. Right now it just kind of statically flows behind her. I think it would look better if it billowed a bit like the cape it is trying to mimic.
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Post by civilizedcactus on Jun 24, 2016 8:57:00 GMT -6
I have a question for those saying the boss is sexualized. How is this in any way sexy? You can't slap big boobs on a grotesque monster and claim it is sexy. It has a hideous demon belly mouth. Tentacles too. This is a horrifying beast, Having an exaggerated female torso only makes it more disturbing, not sexy. This boss is the stuff of nightmares, not wet dreams. Who's saying it's sexy? Oversexualized does not mean sexy. Instead, it's too silly. I don't see any disturbing factor in it; the bouncing blobs are too huge for me to take the boss seriously. xD I would put it on the art style of the game that some would consider the boss a little silly looking. If the game had a more realistic style as opposed to it's anime-esque one, it would be kinda scary. Its more of the concept of it being a giant ocean lady that is showing obvious signs of pregnancy (or at least as close to being pregnant as we would understand a humanoid monster to be) that gives birth to squids WITH TEETH straight from her distended stomach THAT ALSO HAS TEETH and that whole "By the way this thing is male in the mythology its derived from" that supposed to be disturbing instead of what it might look like in the style it's in. And that's not necessarily a bad thing I'd like to think. Bosses don't always have to be intimidating in a visual sense. Just interesting or memorable, which I think Vepar fills those categories. Castlevania has had silly enemy designs in the past for both normal enemies and bosses, like the Wallman from Order of Ecclesia or Abbadon from Dawn of Sorrow. Hell to this day I still this Slogra looks hilarious. That didn't make me take them less seriously though. If a boss is menacing in a mechanical sense, then that could throw you for a loop and set a precedent of "Anything can be a threat no matter how it looks, so be careful around new enemies", which is a good precedent to set for a player. That being said, Vepar wasn't super intimidatingly difficult. I could give it pass for being what I assume is going to be the first boss, but even then she could have probably dealt a bit more damage or had faster attacks.
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Post by Taek on Jun 24, 2016 9:00:14 GMT -6
Really like the look of the demo. My comments are:
The controls and character movement feel great The zoom level is good The environment looks great, though would personally prefer a more hand-drawn, perhaps cell shaded look The music fits really well Invisible walls break immersion. Having a pillar that Miriam could easily walk around block my path is annoying Similarly, it feels a lot like a game and not much like a real world. Having platforms that are just floating there prevents me from believing this is a real place. How do the sailors get around the ship without ladders? I didn't enjoy the boss at all, I'm afraid. It looked silly as it is so bright and colourful and the gameplay was too simplistic, easy and nonthreatening The demo in general was a little simple. It felt too much like a tutorial. I remember the first areas of similar games where I felt challenged. They were interesting and it felt like I was exploring the actual game right from the start rather than waiting for it to get interesting. The level up animation is really jarring and removes my immersion
Thanks for doing such a great job, keep it up!
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Zucriy Amsuna
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I want my Vorpal Spectral Blade of Doom.
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Post by Zucriy Amsuna on Jun 24, 2016 9:05:54 GMT -6
I would put it on the art style of the game that some would consider the boss a little silly looking. If the game had a more realistic style as opposed to it's anime-esque one, it would be kinda scary. . . The pregnant argument does make sense; it's one of the reasons I don't mind if the bust doesn't change. Same with a few of your other points. Though without nipples, they don't really have much of a purpose... I still like my idea in the "Boss boobs" thread about them housing twins (of its same species) that will eventually birth themselves out of them. Thinking of it that way, they're definitely a little more creepy.
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 24, 2016 9:10:24 GMT -6
Honestly her speed is no less quick than any other igavania. I think the main issue people might be confusing it with is framerate. The game isn't fully optimized yet, so when it's 60FPS it'll APPEAR quick compared to the more laggy feel at the moment.
I cannot stress enough her speed, and movement is PERFECT, and if they start messing with it you're messing with perfection. Romscout even commented on how well she moves, and speedrunners live by that.
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Post by Squirrel Taskmaster on Jun 24, 2016 10:36:38 GMT -6
One thing I don't think a lot of the people that feel Miriam attacks too slowly are remembering is that weapons in these games have always had vastly differing attack animations. Early weapons typically did swing out a bit slower and more simply, and later on you'd get really powerful things that do a lot of damage but have far less speed, or other weapons with unique striking paths, some that are very quick, etc. It's always been a technique to jump just a bit to swing in the air rather than attack on the ground to keep moving while hitting, and only a few of the strongest utility weapons allowed unrestricted movement while attacking. That's just weapons mind you, a lot of magic-type abilities could be used without stopping. You had to learn your hammers from your screwdrivers from your socket wrench, and use the right tools for the job.
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 24, 2016 10:48:59 GMT -6
One thing I don't think a lot of the people that feel Miriam attacks too slowly are remembering is that weapons in these games have always had vastly differing attack animations. Early weapons typically did swing out a bit slower and more simply, and later on you'd get really powerful things that do a lot of damage but have far less speed, or other weapons with unique striking paths, some that are very quick, etc. It's always been a technique to jump just a bit to swing in the air rather than attack on the ground to keep moving while hitting, and only a few of the strongest utility weapons allowed unrestricted movement while attacking. That's just weapons mind you, a lot of magic-type abilities could be used without stopping. You had to learn your hammers from your screwdrivers from your socket wrench, and use the right tools for the job. It's almost like the people complaining about speed have never played an IGAVANIA before. They're complaining about things that we know answers to. Why is she so slow? Well she gets power ups that make her go faster later typically. Why is the weapon slow? Well there's some weapons that attack quicker and some medium speed and some slow. Why aren't there sword combos? Well the games never did that because it changes the whole pacing of it. I hope when listening to the feedback, the team listens to people who seem to have a clue what an IGAVANIA game is all about and not people wanting to change everything about IGAVANIAS. Let's not forget we are here for an Igavania game not something completely different.
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Post by estebant on Jun 24, 2016 11:04:20 GMT -6
One thing I don't think a lot of the people that feel Miriam attacks too slowly are remembering is that weapons in these games have always had vastly differing attack animations. Early weapons typically did swing out a bit slower and more simply, and later on you'd get really powerful things that do a lot of damage but have far less speed, or other weapons with unique striking paths, some that are very quick, etc. It's always been a technique to jump just a bit to swing in the air rather than attack on the ground to keep moving while hitting, and only a few of the strongest utility weapons allowed unrestricted movement while attacking. That's just weapons mind you, a lot of magic-type abilities could be used without stopping. You had to learn your hammers from your screwdrivers from your socket wrench, and use the right tools for the job. It's almost like the people complaining about speed have never played an IGAVANIA before. They're complaining about things that we know answers to. Why is she so slow? Well she gets power ups that make her go faster later typically. Why is the weapon slow? Well there's some weapons that attack quicker and some medium speed and some slow. Why aren't there sword combos? Well the games never did that because it changes the whole pacing of it. I hope when listening to the feedback, the team listens to people who seem to have a clue what an IGAVANIA game is all about and not people wanting to change everything about IGAVANIAS. Let's not forget we are here for an Igavania game not something completely different. I would never try to silence anyone, as I believe everyone has the right to voice out their opinion. Even more so when they're emotionally and financially invested in this project. But they really need to get a clue of what they're talking about before providing "feedback". Do they think you're only getting one sword the whole game? What do they think is the point of the other weapons and spells?
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 24, 2016 11:06:25 GMT -6
It's almost like the people complaining about speed have never played an IGAVANIA before. They're complaining about things that we know answers to. Why is she so slow? Well she gets power ups that make her go faster later typically. Why is the weapon slow? Well there's some weapons that attack quicker and some medium speed and some slow. Why aren't there sword combos? Well the games never did that because it changes the whole pacing of it. I hope when listening to the feedback, the team listens to people who seem to have a clue what an IGAVANIA game is all about and not people wanting to change everything about IGAVANIAS. Let's not forget we are here for an Igavania game not something completely different. I would never try to silence anyone, as I believe everyone has the right to voice out their opinion. Even more so when they're emotionally and financially invested in this project. But they really need to get a clue of what they're talking about before providing "feedback". Do they think you're only getting one sword the whole game? What do they think is the point of the other weapons and spells? Yup. Some feedback is just kinda pointless though. I was reading Neogaf and someone pointed out it'd be much better if there was a dive kick. Well if anyone knows an IGAVANIA game you'd know that divekick comes when you get double jump. So obviously it wouldn't be in the demo and obviously it'd probably come later. Again signifying, speed happens when you upgrade your character. There's a reason they don't allow you to be too fast in the beginning then the pace is too fast and you fly by the game too quickly. You're slow and under powered with less abilities early on and as you get further, you get quicker and have more abilities.
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Post by estebant on Jun 24, 2016 11:22:11 GMT -6
I would never try to silence anyone, as I believe everyone has the right to voice out their opinion. Even more so when they're emotionally and financially invested in this project. But they really need to get a clue of what they're talking about before providing "feedback". Do they think you're only getting one sword the whole game? What do they think is the point of the other weapons and spells? Yup. Some feedback is just kinda pointless though. I was reading Neogaf and someone pointed out it'd be much better if there was a dive kick. Well if anyone knows an IGAVANIA game you'd know that divekick comes when you get double jump. So obviously it wouldn't be in the demo and obviously it'd probably come later. Again signifying, speed happens when you upgrade your character. There's a reason they don't allow you to be too fast in the beginning then the pace is too fast and you fly by the game too quickly. You're slow and under powered with less abilities early on and as you get further, you get quicker and have more abilities. It's like they're having all these brilliant ideas that Igas team implemented back in 97. I thought it was funny at first, but then it became annoying.
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ChucklesTheJester
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[TI0] How many nuns would a nunchuck chuck if a nunchuck could chuck nuns?
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Post by ChucklesTheJester on Jun 24, 2016 11:26:01 GMT -6
That's the kind of thing you get on a public forum like this. I wouldn't worry about it. Iga-san has a very clear vision of the game and a competent team, so the feedback will undoubtedly be filtered into "useful" and "not useful".
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Post by estebant on Jun 24, 2016 11:36:21 GMT -6
That's the kind of thing you get on a public forum like this. I wouldn't worry about it. Iga-san has a very clear vision of the game and a competent team, so the feedback will undoubtedly be filtered into "useful" and "not useful". You're right. I trust Iga. I will try to make this the last time I mention it. Because I feel like talking shit on people who have good intentions is a bit mean. I understand they want the best possible game just like me. I love having a positive community. But the least they can do is play the games this project is a spiritual successor to. Maybe even read the thread so the same stuff isn't being repeated endlessly.
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Post by Charlotte~nyo on Jun 24, 2016 12:05:53 GMT -6
On the demo's challenge level: I hope the area in the final game will be a bit harder and mix up the enemy types a bit more given how easy the demo is but I get that perhaps they wanted to take it easy on people on the E3 show floor so it isn't putting pressure on people in a distracting environment. However, I don't think the game's normal mode should really be harder than SotN (which is harder than the demo of course). However, to balance that and cater to people who like challenge, I would hope they'll have a hard mode that's closer to OoE-level challenge unlocked from the beginning so people who want more challenge can get it. It'd help cater to a wide range of skill levels.
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Post by zarbahd on Jun 24, 2016 12:07:26 GMT -6
- I noticed clipping issues with walls and other obstacles while walking and attacking, maybe for attacks you could have a clashing animation when you hit a wall or object you can't interact with. or just not show your image threw the walls, I dunno it just looks a bit off to me with the game being 3d modeled and not the traditional animated style.
- The animation for the Directional Shard ability's looks a bit weird when your jumping both stationary and while moving. If you allow players to change up the buttons like in Symphony of the Night this could be a great utility for players and speed running.
- I love that the way you can replenish your magic/mana with the blue flowers but I thought instead of just blinking and disappearing like they do when you leave them for to long, they could look like their being blown away and separating into petals.
- In Symphony of the Night while having no weapon or using a knuckle weapon, Alucard would do this beautifully executed spiral kick when jumping while holding diagonal down. I would love to see something similar to this in Bloodstained, since it was always one of my favorite animations and things to do in that game.
- The music was a bit low and felt like it was lacking a bit. It may be louder and changed later but I'd be kicking myself if no one else mentioned this and it was over looked. The music in the Castlevania games were always so good.
- I absolutely love the sound of the kick attacks, their so satisfying.
- There is a bit of stuttering when changing areas by jumping into or up out of an area, like when you first go below deck or jump back out.
- I assume that because you have two slots for weapons that you can equip two at a time one in the right and left hand? If that's the case, I think it looks a bit odd when Miriam swings a weapon equipped in the first slot with the other hand when facing the other direction.
-I love the idle animation after you have swung your sword but find it a bit weird that your weapon disappears when you crouch, run, and jump. Maybe it could stick around when you crouch at least.
-If you ever played Super Metroid chances are you ran into the aliens that teach you how to wall jump and shin spark. I always thought it would have been cool for something like that to be in a Castlevania game. Maybe there could be a reoccurring animal in the game like a cat, bird, or dog that just pop up in different places as you progress threw the game.
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Post by rb8888 on Jun 24, 2016 12:11:48 GMT -6
First off, congratulations to the Dev team. The demo was awesome and if the full game is more of this, it's money well spent for me. But if you are looking for some feedback, here are mine: * Jumping seemed a bit off - it felt like I had to press the jump button too long just to jump just a little higher * Explanation of spells - other than lighting the cannon, I never saw a need to use spells * Item icon - it'd be nice if items had an icon; I was about to file a bug about my kung fu shoes not appearing in my inventory, but then after a search on the forum, it turns out the shoes were a weapon, which I never bother to check as I thought it was some type of armor or accessory * Enemy respawn times - in certain parts, it seemed a bit to frequent, specifically when you are on the deck of the ship * Hitbox of attacks - not sure if this is a bug or not, but when I was jumping to attack the lanterns, the attack wouldn't consistently hit when I was directly over the lantern
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Post by khelarald on Jun 24, 2016 12:35:58 GMT -6
For her death animation: Like folks in the forums mentioned, the way she spirals around in the air like Alucard did is a nice touch, but Alucard’s color changed to red while he was spinning and his body also disintegrated into blood. I think something similar for Miriam would be appreciated. Also, don’t forget multiple death animations! Remember, in SoTN there were separate ones for dying of fire, electricity, ice, and other elements, make sure Miriam herself has such diversity in her demise too. I also personally like what Order of Ecclesia did, where if Shanoa died in air, she would explode in blood, but if she died on the ground, she would crumple over like the Belmonts used to do. That’s a nice little touch I think we could do well to see again. How about shattering violently in shiny little crystal pieces? Edit: Btw, it would be a nice to bind the jump not only to A button (or X for PS4), but also R3; so you can control movement, jumping and aiming with directional shards at the same time.
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Post by earthfield on Jun 24, 2016 12:39:07 GMT -6
I have a question for those saying the boss is sexualized. How is this in any way sexy? You can't slap big boobs on a grotesque monster and claim it is sexy. It has a hideous demon belly mouth. Tentacles too. This is a horrifying beast, Having an exaggerated female torso only makes it more disturbing, not sexy. This boss is the stuff of nightmares, not wet dreams. Who's saying it's sexy? Oversexualized does not mean sexy. Instead, it's too silly. I don't see any disturbing factor in it; the bouncing blobs are too huge for me to take the boss seriously. xD Oversexualized doesn't mean giant breasts either. About being it silly, fair enough, but why is people so focused on the breasts? Vepar had a Great Mighty Poo on her stomach and everyone rolls with it, why are people so focused on the breasts? It has a huge shard coming out of the forehead, a mouth in the belly, but no, let's talk about the breasts. I truly don't understand. Even more so with this game, because SOTN had a boss, two of them, actually with a female torso naked and no one batted an eye back then. If it's the size, what's wrong with it? It's not supposed to be human, I don't see anyone complaining about Seama having a head too big. What I find ludicrous about this argument is that it can be applied to many thing in this game and previous ones and no one says anything about it. In order to prevent further derailing, I won't comment on this anymore, my apologies, I just want to state that even if it's not your intention, the complain comes as pretentious to me. You are entitled to not liking it, to find it gross, silly, or whatever it makes you feel, that's why we are different after all. But to universally label it as a problem needing to be addressed, is, in my opinion, ridiculous. Peace out! Oh! I forgot, Is there a way to 100% the whole map? There are places so hard to reach, but I feel I'm missing something if I don't complete the map.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 24, 2016 13:02:39 GMT -6
- I love that the way you can replenish your magic/mana with the blue flowers but I thought instead of just blinking and disappearing like they do when you leave them for to long, they could look like their being blown away and separating into petals. - In Symphony of the Night while having no weapon or using a knuckle weapon, Alucard would do this beautifully executed spiral kick when jumping while holding diagonal down. I would love to see something similar to this in Bloodstained, since it was always one of my favorite animations and things to do in that game. I love that first idea! I just wanted to point out on the second thing though, you can do that in the demo as it is.
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Post by liamx2000 on Jun 24, 2016 13:18:07 GMT -6
Installed it and OMG it feels amazing , so smooth , I love the Main characters design, she is like a cross between Richter and Shanoa. Also I love the little details like for instance when I Equipped the shoes she was actually wearing them and they weren't just a stat change. For a quick simple DEMO I am just blown away I have been waiting for this style of game play to come back. Some Indie devs have done "metroidvania" games but not in the style I like. So happy I backed this game and My name will be in the credits so it feels great to know I helped my first backed game. Just hope there wont be too many bumps in the road , since I have seen many Kick-starter games get canned lately.
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Zucriy Amsuna
Loyal Familiar
I want my Vorpal Spectral Blade of Doom.
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Post by Zucriy Amsuna on Jun 24, 2016 14:28:55 GMT -6
Who's saying it's sexy? Oversexualized does not mean sexy. Instead, it's too silly. I don't see any disturbing factor in it; the bouncing blobs are too huge for me to take the boss seriously. xD Oversexualized doesn't mean giant breasts either. About being it silly, fair enough, but why is people so focused on the breasts? Vepar had a Great Mighty Poo on her stomach and everyone rolls with it, why are people so focused on the breasts? It has a huge shard coming out of the forehead, a mouth in the belly, but no, let's talk about the breasts. I truly don't understand. Even more so with this game, because SOTN had a boss, two of them, actually with a female torso naked and no one batted an eye back then. If it's the size, what's wrong with it? It's not supposed to be human, I don't see anyone complaining about Seama having a head too big. What I find ludicrous about this argument is that it can be applied to many thing in this game and previous ones and no one says anything about it. People focus on the breasts because it's the primary attribute that sticks out like crying baby in a wedding ceremony. The first impression we get immediately makes us wonder...why? Why is it made to be so silly looking? It takes away from the potential creepiness of the boss so effectively that we must comment on it. It's not the nudity that bothers us. We're not offended like so many of you say we are. It's simply the comedic out-of-place bust that looks like it came from an ecchi anime. Nobody said anything about the other monsters or previous games because they didn't look so silly. If it's what Iga wants, I will stand by that decision; I don't really care either way. I'm not complaining; I'm merely commenting about a demon boss that should look creepy instead of hilarious so it would fit the game's theme a bit more.
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