Update: 35 - IGA's Got A Brand New Background (New Shaders!)

I think you are conflating your personal preferences with those of the video game audience at large. Cel-shading is a very popular graphic style that is often used for games with cartoon/anime/comic/manga inspirations and artstyles because it allows the game to more closely reflect and respect their source origins. The same applies to Bloodstained (and most of the Castlevania games) and that is the reason why Shader 3 is so popular (at least with those who have bothered to vice their opinions in public). IP like Dragon Ball, Naruto, Jojo and Guilty Gear are all very popular on their own but there is a very good reason they consistently use cel-shading in their games and games like the recent Transformers Devastation and of course the poster boy Guilty Gear Xrd have been praised for their use. As has already been stated as well, quality cel-shaded games tend to age better. Even though the artstyle change was jarring for Wind Waker at the time, the graphics of that game, even before the HD remake, aged much better than those of Twilight Princess.

TLDR: It's 100% perfectly fine if you prefer Shader 1. But going on about Shader 3 being "not next gen" (or that others might think so) or "might hurt sales" is hyperbole and paranoia. I'm not trying to be rude in the slightest here so sorry if it comes off that way at all


I don't think this is the first time you've mentioned this but I think I forgot about this until now. This sort of back and forth communication/feedback is not uncommon for crowdfunded games. Not all of them act this way but its not uncommon. In fact many developers go the crowdfunding preciously because they can interact with the backers in this way. While of course I respect the concerns of "too many cooks in the kitchen", "give players what they don't know they want not necessarily what they say they want", etc. there is a difference between a developer folding to the demands/questions of a vocal component (perhaps even a minority) of a fanbase and a developer going out of their way to ask for feedback. The later is what is happening here.


Eh, I'm not sure that's an accurate representation of what went down. The "majority" opinion was that people trusted IGA's judgement. Many just expressed that they preferred a orthographic perspective. There was no "call" for a change, only a suggestion as if it would be considered (note how the question was worded in the Ask IGA #7). Also, the circumstances in which a developer hears outside subjects brought up and where they solicit direct feedback from their audience aren't entirely the same. All that being said, your main point still stands - IGA calls the final shots, he always has and always will.

mmmm... I didn't vote in this thread yet because....well...before this thread or the update cropped up, I wasn't one of the people who thought shaders would be optional...but after seeing the update...I really want both. I like them both in their own way, and I really don't want to say no to either. So... Part of me wants to 'vote' 1 because it NEEDS it in this thread, but that's not how I actually feel so I haven't.

The whole shader 3 is != next gen blurb is doofishness though (I just made that word up, best word ever, admit it, ADMIT IT!!!! =P ). I mostly agree with croc's most recent retort regarding shader 1vs3, and I completly agree and wish to highlight the part about cel shading being a style many people who like comics/manga/anime/uhhh.. another one like.. (which is partially ironic because you don't know HOW many times I see anime-nuts complain about games I like because 'zomg anime-trope this anime-trope that so bored of that anime-thing' and reference names and whatnot of anime I don't bloody know because I'm not a diehard anime nut like they are and if they ARE an anime nut and know that material so well WDF DONT THEY LIKE IT!??!?! It's like anime fans are like twilight/justin bieber fans who feel ashamed of what they like and have to curse it out and make fun of it but actually like it).

Holy carp... I went off topic even more than I usually do, and I'm like... the worst at that. Even superman cowers before my offtopic powers, without crypotnite I may add....uhh.. where was I....

ohh...I see... so yeah, cel-shading is something anime/comic fans are kinda pre-dispositioned into liking for the most part, not something 'obsolete gen' per say....My opinions on this are complicated, hence my need to ramble in multiple directions. Basically Despite me NOT being an anime/manga fan, I do in fact like that artstyle in general (including in games, not that I hate other styles), so sometimes I feel 'akin' to such fans in some artistic regards. however, in this case, I feel an abnormal bias towards 2d rather than an understanding of 2.5d...Many fans don't seem to accept 2.5d, they practically PUKE as they swallow it as a necessary fact to DARE dump upon their 2d master race of a game art style. I personally can like both... I've played games when 3d never existed...before many people who cuss upon it ever have. I'm kinda worried that the whole shader 3 weighting on these forums is influenced by that very bias...So uhh.. after all that rambling, I can kinda understand feelings that shader 3 are not in the best interest in the game's potential, I disagree with every reason given in this thread regarding why though... Can I offer better reasons as to why shader 1 is better, or even equal? nope...which is why I haven't posted (and if you read this far you KNOW I'm not afraid of posting words!)...But those reasons are most certainly not the reasons why IMO...

I wish to stand up for Shader 1 however, and proudly exclaim I have no bloody idea why... I'm trying to think about it and would love to explain why, really I would, but my communication skills are flawed to say the least. Not that I think shader 1 is better, it just stands up to the competition, and I want both...gah.

ive never played with ue4 before, but sl texturing has a property called glow where the object radiates its own light source, i have the feeling that and playing with contrast is what theyre using to help make her colors pop which works great close up, however glow has the side effect of taking over the further away you get from a model and it makes colors wash out, but id need to see the file to know what is actually going on with that far off pic

We love how everyone is torn between the two shaders. Just letting you all know, we actually don't mind it being either or because both shaders look great. Just as the update says, the devs are torn between the two shaders. We're going to heavily rely on backer opinions this round  .

Grab a cup of  and choose wisely!

In UE4 this would be be an "emissive" channel of the shader. Which can be adjusted based on distance to the camera.

I have put the shader 3/3 screenshot as the desktop background because it looks fantastic. The high contrast lets you observe all the details (architecture, decorations) a lot better. It makes me so excited that one day I will we able to take control in this castle and do all kinds of cool stuff, while listening to new Yamane`s music

And you did that for character 3? ?

I believe I shall as well!

After mulling it over for a while I think I'm definitely in favor for Background Shader 1. Background Shader 3 seems too bright and blown out in some spots? Background Shader 1 looks to give it the right ambiance. Also I feel it doesn't contrast as well with Miriam regardless if you use Character Shader 1 or 3 - that is to say she blends in a bit too much in Background Shader 3. Character Shaders are a bit harder to figure out. I think I overall lean towards Shader 3 (better approaches style of the art, will age better) though I appreciate the softness of Shader 1. Close up, in some respects and on some parts of Miriam's model Shader 3 looks a bit too sharp. Both character shaders look good from afar, the gap doesn't seem super huge. I wish we could've gotten some shots at typical camera zoom though. As I said before that could really influence decision making.

As an aside, does Miriam's left shoulder look.....small to anyone else or is that just me? Like her left deltoid muscle is atrophied.

Yeah, I'm a BG1 C3 fan. The tone is more even making the castle feel more immersive. There are things I like about BG3 though, so I'm good either way. Everyone please change your votes to BG1 C3 though.