Astaroth
Fifty Storms 
What a wonderful night to have a curse...
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What a wonderful night to have a curse...
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Post by Astaroth on Jan 20, 2016 23:43:23 GMT -6
as for the backgrounds, i adore the amount of depth and detail thats been put into these, and that the platforms are instantly recognisable and draw your eye even though they are built in such a way that they are part of the architecture and not just floating in the middle of space like most platformers use ^_^//
its gonna be harder to seperate the 2 backgrounds into their own merits, and a lot of the issues i think i have with either bg comes from the lighting more than the actual shader, i notice that bg3 has some oddly shiny parts to it especially on the floor and the column behind the stairs right next to the brazier but i think this is artifacting and could be easily fixed with a bit of tweaking, if you look at the lighting as it shows in the smaller ks images i think thats a much better representation of what the lighting is supposed to look like
as for the depth im more partial to bg1, it has depth without losing any details in the mid and background areas, but it starts to flatten out once you come to the foreground, bg3 however keeps a good level of depth in the foreground but anything beyond that falls prey to the light artifacting, the only actual depth issue i can find is that the pieces of the platform colums disappear into each other in a few places on bg3
as for shadows and light bg3 wins even with the artifacting and the floodlight in the bg completely taking over the right side of the bg and obsuring the tapestry entirely, it highlights architecture behind the columns that in bg1 is completely obscured by the hazy kinda darkness, bg1 is a little too even throughout with the lighting and nothing truly pops
color bg3 wins again, i did notice the clouds in the window move and it makes that hazy area with the tapestries change color slightly with each picture, and i really like that, it shows a level of attention to the outside world creeping into the castle that makes me hopeful for that super dark section of the castle lit only briefly by the lightning flashing outside and the boss battle in a pitch black arcade, but the deeper colors and greater range of light and shadow throughout the area i think would look amazing once the artifact issue are taken care of
both have amazing levels of detail in the textures and models, and the range of materials and motifs used in the architecture is varied but still feels like a unified area, and makes me wonder whats hidden on top of that chandelier and why is that fountain filled with blood, will i have the option to pass behind those columns and see what rooms are back there, will she move closer to the camera and walk around the front of that fountain, or will the camera pan and tilt as she moves toward it and you get to see the scope of the room as she skirts it, or will she barrel straight into the fountain and splash blood everywhere?
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Post by Quintalian on Jan 20, 2016 23:47:17 GMT -6
There's a large majority in favor of shader 3, and I have to agree. Miriam looks really good with the illustration shader, especially in close-up. But, for the background, I think shader 1 is a better fit, considering the large background shot, more of which we'll likely be seeing for the majority of the game. The lighting seems more even, noticeable on the engraving on the floor in the foreground, and if the chandelier and those metallic platforms on the pillar are level elements, they seem to stand out better than with shader 3.
Miriam's new ribbons are great, too. Even if they are a little absurd, in an action game of this kind, they do add a bit of flair that I didn't realize was lacking. I'm excited to see all this in motion to watch how they flow with her movements.
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Elfina Ashfield
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Post by Elfina Ashfield on Jan 21, 2016 0:08:58 GMT -6
Character 3, absolutely.
Actually both backgrounds seems appealing to me, B1 looks a little bit "warmer" than B3. But hey we're in a demon's castle, we don't need it to be "warm", we're looking for weirdness and spookiness.
So B3C3. That's it.
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Post by nekurors on Jan 21, 2016 0:12:20 GMT -6
Took me hours to decide, still i believe both are amazing however i made my mind towards Character 1 and Background 3. I felt like C3 receive too much light and the contrast seems forced. Anyway i would be happy with any of them, the important thing here is that Iga is leading the team to the right way, they are really listening to us and we are being useful improve the game. If C3 wins as it seems to i would like to see Miriam with little lower light intensity on her. Great improvements Iga and Inti!
I think the team can set and close this issue very soon now and go forward to the next step, which might be building the castle and the rooms? Hope we can see more rendered parts of the castle and maybe some enemies on them on the next few updates, showing enemies 3D models could be great.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jan 21, 2016 0:38:54 GMT -6
Holy. Crap. This completely blew my mind...every time I think the model looks as good as it can they bring it to a whole new level. This is incredible in so many ways. Definitely character 3, but I kind of wish you could see the outlines a bit more from further away. Kind of kills the purpose if they aren't visible. I don't want to see thick outlines though, that'd kill it. Just enough. The background is harder to pick...I like the colors on number 3 and the shininess to it, but it really takes away the shadows/darkness. It looks less natural, maybe if they found a way to mix them that would help. Either way model 3 looks so much more vibrant and alive than 1. The art style is really shaping up and I can only see small changes from here. I think the more important thing is that you can clearly see the shading still when zoomed out. It maintains a cohesive art style no matter what the zoom level. Between the fine detailed textures and the smooth shadowing, Shader 1 loses too much when zoomed out. The small sprites in the Castelvania games worked because the art style was (relatively) simple and bold. Shader 3 follows that paradigm with more modern fashion. I had to say this though 3/3 certainly look really beautiful But then, it made Miriam looked kinda cartoonish..... which if I remember right, there were a number of complaints in the kickstarter comments regarding the artwork, that they want the realistic look, not the anime look what do you guys think of this? I personally, would stick with what IGA had put up in the updates There were some complaints, but others of us were pretty quick to point out that they didn't know what they were talking about, and that SotN onwards at least, Castlevania has always had a manga/anime style. This is just the result of having a different character artist and nothing more. Shader 3, IMO, better captures that artist's intent than Shader 1. Anyway, if it isn't clear already, I am definitely in favor of Shader 3 for the character. The same for the background. At first glance, there doesn't seem to be that much different between the two, but there is one very important distinction that doesn't really stand out until you notice it, and then you can't not notice it. Similar to the shading in Shader 1, the lighting in Shader 1 seems to be a soft sort of illumination like in most modern games. The problem here is that it kind of muddles up some details, which is kind of bad for this kind of game. Look at the tiled floor. In Shader 3, you can see it just fine, but in Shader 1, it's kind of a hazy mess. It's one thing to use some sort of DoF process to blur the far background(as is done in both shaders) so that it doesn't distract from the action too much, but you really shouldn't have a blurry foreground. So Shader 3 all the way for me. As for criticisms: I'm not sure that the borders need to be quite that thick. It definitely makes her stand out, perhaps more than she needs to since you don't see any of that when zoomed out anyway. Also, I might suggest going even a bit more aggressive with the shading contrast. It looks alright up close, but it does become a bit indistinct at a distance, though it's still miles better than Shader 1 in that regard. Here's an edit I made to the skin shading as an example(click on the pictures for a the full size pic): |
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JoJo
Most Bizarre Adventurer
Master Alchemist
[TI1] I'm Fabulous!!
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Post by JoJo on Jan 21, 2016 0:52:16 GMT -6
I had to say this though 3/3 certainly look really beautiful But then, it made Miriam looked kinda cartoonish..... which if I remember right, there were a number of complaints in the kickstarter comments regarding the artwork, that they want the realistic look, not the anime look what do you guys think of this? I personally, would stick with what IGA had put up in the updates There were some complaints, but others of us were pretty quick to point out that they didn't know what they were talking about, and that SotN onwards at least, Castlevania has always had a manga/anime style. This is just the result of having a different character artist and nothing more. Shader 3, IMO, better captures that artist's intent than Shader 1. Anyway, if it isn't clear already, I am definitely in favor of Shader 3 for the character. The same for the background. At first glance, there doesn't seem to be that much different between the two, but there is one very important distinction that doesn't really stand out until you notice it, and then you can't not notice it. Similar to the shading in Shader 1, the lighting in Shader 1 seems to be a soft sort of illumination like in most modern games. The problem here is that it kind of muddles up some details, which is kind of bad for this kind of game. Look at the tiled floor. In Shader 3, you can see it just fine, but in Shader 1, it's kind of a hazy mess. It's one thing to use some sort of DoF process to blur the far background(as is done in both shaders) so that it doesn't distract from the action too much, but you really shouldn't have a blurry foreground. So Shader 3 all the way for me. As for criticisms: I'm not sure that the borders need to be quite that thick. It definitely makes her stand out, perhaps more than she needs to since you don't see any of that when zoomed out anyway. Also, I might suggest going even a bit more aggressive with the shading contrast. It looks alright up close, but it does become a bit indistinct at a distance, though it's still miles better than Shader 1 in that regard. Here's an edit I made to the skin shading as an example(click on the pictures for a the full size pic): Very nice subtle change there We will just have to see, I guess But I do get your point regarding Shaders 3 |
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Foffy
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Post by Foffy on Jan 21, 2016 0:57:12 GMT -6
Astronomical improvements all around.
Stay based, IGA.
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Post by Jango on Jan 21, 2016 2:29:17 GMT -6
Wow. I guess Im the only one who prefers shader 1/1. The other one makes Miriam look like a weird acid trip. And the blue outlines are kinda odd.
Shader three on the background significantly brightens the environment, while the other shader has a nicer, more dynamic range with light and shadow. The third shader just looks too blown out to me.
With that said, EVERYTHING looks so much better. And did I spot a blood fountain? Woah. That's pretty cool.
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Mana
Official Staff
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Post by Mana on Jan 21, 2016 4:39:01 GMT -6
I believe this is the appropriate place to post this. IGA wanted to add on to his comment for this update. For the background shaders, these screenshots are taken from afar to show the background details. So when you play the actual game, it will be much closer to the character. It would be great to add this to the first post so that more people can see this  "Sorry everyone! I forgot to mention something so important." -IGA |
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ChucklesTheJester
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Post by ChucklesTheJester on Jan 21, 2016 5:13:31 GMT -6
Gbraga on NeoGaf made this and I thought I would share it:  If you're cool/hip you'll get the reference   But seriously? That third character shader is AMAZING. Iga MUST be a vampire because he's clearly been reading my mind. That's EXACTLY what I wanted the character to look like, and I mean EXACTLY. |
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jan 21, 2016 5:36:40 GMT -6
Just to see how it looked, I color matched Shader 3 with the concept art to see how that would look(and then adjusted so the blacks didn't look washed out). Here's what I got |
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Post by Paper-Man on Jan 21, 2016 5:37:39 GMT -6
Character 3 is hands downs the best. I know I'm in the minority on this but background shader 1 is the best choice.
It has a darker smoother tone which matches the overall feel of a Gothic styled game.
The problem with shader 3 is that dam blaring white light in the left corner. It looks like someone on stage-lighting forgot
to turn off one of the lights and left it there. It's really jarring and breaks the immersion a little and it doesn't fit well with the
overall tone.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jan 21, 2016 5:45:57 GMT -6
I believe this is the appropriate place to post this. IGA wanted to add on to his comment for this update. For the background shaders, these screenshots are taken from afar to show the background details. So when you play the actual game, it will be much closer to the character. It would be great to add this to the first post so that more people can see this "Sorry everyone! I forgot to mention something so important." -IGA That's good to hear. Thanks for the update! |
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Post by Akatsuki belmont on Jan 21, 2016 6:32:54 GMT -6
When i first looked upon the new update I realized why it took so long.
It was definitely worth the wait.
The amount of work that IGA and the team did to bring us this deserves my deepest respects.
As far as the background and character blend is concerned i think when there was no background i was a fan of the shader that was prevoiusly displayed in Miriam's model....but now i am not so sure as the same shader gives of a cartoonic vibe in both the backgrounds as Redogan has previously stated.
As for the background i believe bloodstained should be darker and more gothic so background 3 is to my liking .
So i think i'm going to go with character 1 background 3 for a more realistic but dark/gothic feel.
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thrashinuva
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[TI2] I'm interested in this.
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Post by thrashinuva on Jan 21, 2016 6:42:53 GMT -6
So it seems our camera viewpoint will be somewhere between the zoomed out pic and the full portrait of Miriam pic. The zoomed out pic isn't honestly that far zoomed out imo. It'll be nice to see Miriam closer, though.
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Post by Everett Spair on Jan 21, 2016 7:52:54 GMT -6
Oh man this update is awesome.
I think Character 3 looks totally amazing. Character 1 looks damn good too but for me #3 wins.
The background though is another matter. I can't really decide on it. I would be happy with either of them. I picked #3 in the survey but I'm really unsure.
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Redogan
Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
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Post by Redogan on Jan 21, 2016 7:57:09 GMT -6
When i first looked upon the new update I realized why it took so long. It was definitely worth the wait. The amount of work that IGA and the team did to bring us this deserves my deepest respects. As far as the background and character blend is concerned i think when there was no background i was a fan of the shader that was prevoiusly displayed in Miriam's model....but now i am not so sure as the same shader gives of a cartoonic vibe in both the backgrounds as Redogan has previously stated. As for the background i believe bloodstained should be darker and more gothic so background 3 is to my liking . So i think i'm going to go with character 1 background 3 for a more realistic but dark/gothic feel. Yes, this. I feel I need to say it again. Shader 3 makes an excellent character look until you put it with the awesome new background. Then it just looks like something pasted on. In the Ask IGA, he even said he didn't want to head in the cel-shaded direction (which to me would include the Guilty Gear Xrd look). Also, to add a bit more about background 3.... Background 3 has some details that are just not present in background 1. Examples include reflections on the object beside the stairs (some kind of short pillar with a stone slab on top) and the moonlight shining in a window on to the big column. So, for me it is character 1 background 3. I'm sure it will turn out awesome in the end regardless of what IGA decides to go with. |
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Monster-Hunting Igavaniac
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[TI0] Game On!
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Post by Redogan on Jan 21, 2016 8:02:27 GMT -6
I believe this is the appropriate place to post this. IGA wanted to add on to his comment for this update. For the background shaders, these screenshots are taken from afar to show the background details. So when you play the actual game, it will be much closer to the character. It would be great to add this to the first post so that more people can see this "Sorry everyone! I forgot to mention something so important." -IGA Welcome, Mana! Thanks for the add-on. All of the new screenshots look so amazing. IGA keeps delivering amazing stuff. |
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Post by isshi on Jan 21, 2016 8:05:08 GMT -6
I really love 3-3, my vote goes for it, but i don't like the 100% black lineart. Maybe another option it's paint with a darker tone each zone, darker brown for skin, face, boobs, dark blue for costume, dark gold for the gold details, etc..etc.. but maybe you can't do that on 3d models haha, like i do when i paint my art xD example:  |
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JoJo
Most Bizarre Adventurer
Master Alchemist
[TI1] I'm Fabulous!!
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Post by JoJo on Jan 21, 2016 8:14:31 GMT -6
I really love 3-3, my vote goes for it, but i don't like the 100% black lineart. Maybe another option it's paint with a darker tone each zone, darker brown for skin, face, boobs, dark blue for costume, dark gold for the gold details, etc..etc.. but maybe you can't do that on 3d models haha, like i do when i paint my art xD example: You sir, had just erased the linings which is also my only complaint on Character 3 Thumbs up from me |
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