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Post by blankslatenator on Nov 21, 2015 23:21:56 GMT -6
Examples of games that use this technique: Any JRPG with an "Action" element to it, Any open world game that I can think of, Fire Emblem Awakening, Transistor, Symphony of the Night. If you have spent a fair amount of time playing Fire Emblem Awakening you would know it has integrated dynamic audio playback through dual audio tracks that interweave between each other depending on whether the battle is in your favor or not. It really pushes the player to focus when they are losing, and takes winning in the game to an epic level. Transistor has integrated dynamic audio playback by allowing the player to push a button to allow the main character (a female opera singer) to sing to the music being played in the level, when you release the button the music goes back to normal and you can continue playing. www.develop-online.net/interview/sound-in-transit-the-beats-of-supergiant-s-transistor/0195374JRPGs such as Kingdom Hearts and Xenoblade Chronicles to transition into battles while roaming the world. Xenoblade Chronicles also integrates dynamic audio like Fire Emblem Awakening, I think Monolith Soft tied it in with the tension system which is sensitive to how much damage to characters have, so a high amount of tension usually mean the battle is going well, while low tension usually mean the battle is going poorly and hints that you need to change your tactics. Symphony of The Night (this is the earliest game I can think of to use it) has a fairy minion that will change the level music to a song she sings instead when Alucard sits in a chair for a certain amount of time. While I wish the game could be packed full of integrated dynamic audio playback, I think it may be an expensive process, or will take quite a bit of time to achieve, but I think maybe just a boss with this audio technique included would be really neat. plus it helps the flow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29) of a game. Thoughts or more examples? |
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Post by gunlord500 on Nov 22, 2015 0:13:49 GMT -6
Cool thread, my friend! I think Wing Commander was notable for doing this back in the day. The music would change tempo and stuff, and be happy if you completed a mission objective or menacing if you failed, in real time. It was one of the selling points, IIRC  |
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Post by Goobsausage on Nov 22, 2015 1:23:52 GMT -6
I'd be cool with it. I think it'd be nice if Bloodstained had dynamic audio like Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie where the music changed a little bit depending on which area of the world you were at.
I also liked how Skies of Arcadia featured it in boss battles. It starts out with a default music theme. If the boss is winning, the music changes to something more urgent. If you're winning, it switches to something triumphant. There's also been times where I've played the game and it went from triumphant back to default if the boss catches up or does a good hit, and I can remember at least one occasion where it went straight from triumphant to urgent.
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Post by XombieMike on Nov 22, 2015 17:00:55 GMT -6
SotN's fairy song was a great example. I could still listen to that song as part of a soundtrack after the game. That is important to me. I like dynamic audio, but I want the music to work just as well on it's own outside of the game.
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Post by allooutrick on Nov 23, 2015 9:51:39 GMT -6
I would love to see Bloodstained have this and, to add to your list, the most recent game I've played to have this is Final Fantasy 13: Lightning Returns. The field music shifts depending if enemies spawned for example.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Nov 23, 2015 10:14:11 GMT -6
Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance did this in a pretty sick fashion, actually every level and boss fight of the game. The music would loop a quieter, down-tempo version of the song, and when the action of a fight scene started to get more intense, so did the music - guitars and lyrics would kick in. Made the game that much more hype.
I don't know if an Igavania game should have such prominent, every-stage dynamic audio...but maybe for a specific area as to supplement a specific experience, or as with the fairy song, yes. As a general rule, I'd rather the area's specific Yamane (or Yamada) song play in its unaltered entirety regardless of what my character is doing at the time.
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Post by blankslatenator on Nov 23, 2015 11:51:57 GMT -6
I know they were talking about using 8 bit tracks contributed by Virt, while also having orchestral tracks. With such a contrast of sound, I could see a dynamic transition between regular tracks to 8 bit tracks in some way. I agree that doing a seamless transition between epic tracks could very easily be a bad thing. This could be a hit or miss :l.
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Post by Kaius on Dec 3, 2015 6:22:04 GMT -6
Definitly agree !
I think Igarashi-san already thought about this. These audio depend on the game's content : If there will be fairy monsters, secrets rooms, etc. I voted yes anyway !
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Post by wiggychiggy on Dec 3, 2015 7:12:06 GMT -6
To expound on what purifyweirdshard mentioned earlier Metal Gear: Revengeance features a dynamic soundtrack as well as songs that only play during boss fights. Each of these actually contain lyrics which explain each boss further--naturally they all have tragic backstories, typical of Kojima's previous works. Each section change in the song signified a change in the boss battle, since they were pretty theatrical affairs. |
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Post by Dragon_of_Dojima on Dec 3, 2015 9:49:28 GMT -6
Nier did this before anyone noticed. It's a shame that no one talks about how well Nier did it and usually talks about either how great the soundtrack was or how repetitive it was. For me, I noticed immediately. I would walk into a library then into town and into a field and into another town and the music would hardly skip a beat at all.
That's another reason why Automata has me excited. Revengeance had dynamic music just like Nier. It's a match made in heaven.
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Post by neff on Jan 8, 2016 11:27:06 GMT -6
As in music or voice? Im not sure what you mean.
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Post by Dragon_of_Dojima on Jan 8, 2016 20:15:37 GMT -6
I was referring to music. While I thought both voice acting tracks were great in that game, it was fairly standard. No dynamic tricks.
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Post by jim on Jan 9, 2016 5:13:57 GMT -6
Actually the best example I can think of for dynamic audio is a pinball table by the name of Black Knight 2000. Gameplay starts at about 0:37.
Really from about 0:35 to about 2:15 is the meat of the music. 3:03 shows a really good transition moment where the music suddenly has to make a mode change. Just after 3:30 also shows another really nice SUDDEN transition up to about 3:45 and 3:50 has the transition back to the main theme of the game. But from 4:45-4:50 to 6:15 shows the main theme of the game. At 5:50 is a great example of the game interrupting the main theme for a temporary state change and then dropping right back into the main theme.
I remember reading an interview with one of the programmers who worked on that game talking about how they had to make this synchronization mechanic that could extend or shorten certain reactions of the game just so they would sync up to the music. They actually had things so finely broken down that they could sync the reactions of the game down to a 1/64th note. Worse yet they had to have a bunch of short "filler" bits of music done just so that if off time events occurred they could stretch or shrink the sound track to keep it in sync with the action on the table. Even the main theme of the game was broken into, I think it was, something like 13 or 17 parts so they could drop out to do some other piece of music or sound and then come right back in and had out going and incoming transitions for each part just to make the music seem as seamless as possible.
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Post by GenericSoda on Jan 9, 2016 8:42:05 GMT -6
Honestly, I really dislike Fire Emblem: Awakening's take on the dynamic music, mostly because the past games had very distinct themes in maps and battles and Awakening's take makes both feel equally forgettable. The Banjo games pioneered this and I still feel like they did it the best, even some 20 years later. That being said, recent games like Darkest Dungeon and (Really Dragon_of_Dojima? I have to be the first to mention it?) Yakuza 0 implement dynamic theme shifting really well. Bottom line is, I'd love to see the music shift around in Bloodstained: Imagine being in a garden area and you get to a part where everything is twisted and rotten and the pitch changes menacingly, or you're in a water area and you encounter a section where everything's frozen over, and the tune lightens. That's what I'd like to see. |
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Post by crocodile on Jan 9, 2016 9:38:02 GMT -6
Maybe my understanding of dynamic music is a little off but I was always under the impression that this was hard to do with orchestrated music? I feel like I've heard that said pretty frequently but maybe my memory is off? Like obviously you could just compose a song that changes dynamics as part of its main theme but something that responds to the situation and then moves back and forth and back using orchestrated tracks is supposed to be hard no?
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Post by jim on Jan 9, 2016 14:23:54 GMT -6
It is entirely doable, but yes with orchestrated music it does tend to take more effort. Mainly because orchestrated music tends to be more complex, has more elements who's timing must be taken into consideration by the software, and also includes more irregularly timed elements that make synchronization more difficult. But if you have a good software engineer or programmer and a good composer then it's really just a matter of tracking all of those elements and having your transition points and clips ready to go.
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Post by Astaroth on Jan 13, 2016 2:28:30 GMT -6
basically instead of composing one 2 minute song that then gets looped theyd compose 2-4 versions of the same song with tonal shifts that would then be layered and based on flags in the game one layer of song will fade in while the current layer playing will fade out, its very doable, but i see it being used sparingly for the first game, like examples above with the slowly twisting garden or heading into a frozen section of an area, under/overwater sections would probably be the most obvious place to implement that
i think its a cool idea, but i think it should be kept to a few specific things to actually heighten the impact of it, between Michiru, Ippo, and Virt im sure well get a suitably badass soundtrack and im totally for that being one of their many tricks to enhance a change in scenery within an area
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Post by jim on Jan 13, 2016 17:19:49 GMT -6
basically instead of composing one 2 minute song that then gets looped theyd compose 2-4 versions of the same song with tonal shifts that would then be layered and based on flags in the game one layer of song will fade in while the current layer playing will fade out, its very doable, but i see it being used sparingly for the first game, like examples above with the slowly twisting garden or heading into a frozen section of an area, under/overwater sections would probably be the most obvious place to implement that i think its a cool idea, but i think it should be kept to a few specific things to actually heighten the impact of it, between Michiru, Ippo, and Virt im sure well get a suitably badass soundtrack and im totally for that being one of their many tricks to enhance a change in scenery within an area Agreed. It's one thing when you just got one thing with a single theme like the pinball table I mentioned above. But that'd be akin to a single room of the entire castle in a single set of scenarios in Bloodstained. So ya, using it in a few key places and events would be totally awesome. But trying to do much more than that I think would tend to water down the coolness and also would just dramatically increase the workload of the team for not a whole lot of payout game and content wise. |
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Post by Reiji Mitsurugi on Jan 14, 2016 9:34:31 GMT -6
Hmm... I'm really not sure what I'd like. The last game I played that featured dynamic audio was Phantasy Star Online 2. There the music would shift depending on wether there were enemies around you or not, during certain quests where a mecha was available to players (the music would get a bass beat if anyone was riding one of them) and during certain large scale boss fights depending on the boss health or what kind of attack he was doing (this was really cool... there was one boss who had a nasty attack, where he would freeze time, paralysing everyone, and setting up a trap on the field. You had to break free of his spell and destroy the trap... if you didn't, it would be insta-death to all 12 players, and during this the song would get significantly more tense).
Some of that was interesting, but usually it wasn't well done. The difference between the scenery and battle songs was too great, the songs would shift right when their good parts were about to begin, and you'd get used to some themes, only to have them be arranged in a completely different way in the soundtrack album. Not sure if I'd want that.
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Post by blankslatenator on Jun 6, 2016 7:27:32 GMT -6
I think the most impressive piece of dynamic music would be to transition from sections of the castle with no loading screens considering how big it is supposed to be.
Although , there are different teams working to implement the game to systems with varying degrees of processing power, the biggest advantage of the creation of the newest gen systems is how much can be processed at one instant. There is at least potential with the more powerful systems to seamlessly transition music dynamically, without loading between sections. I suppose we haven't seen the final optimized graphics with particle effects applied and all that, but it seems the graphics shown so far leave a lot of wiggle room programming-wise. With the way Iga thinks, some real magic could happen, I mean an upside down castle is only one dimension lol, where else will Iga take us :0.
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