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Post by JeffCross on Sept 16, 2015 15:33:32 GMT -6
Ok I decided to make another post... (haven't done it in a while)
Here goes... I was playing some SotN and I remembered the dragon riders and thought "wouldn't it be cool to ride one of those even for a little bit?"
do you think it would be fun to be able to mount some turned monsters, familiars or find temporary quick transport (mainly just for fun though, but can be for puzzles) in bloodstained?
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Post by zanzuki93 on Sept 16, 2015 23:22:58 GMT -6
That sounds really cool, but my only questions are how many of them will be mountable? And does that mean that certain staples of the castlevania series will be left behind for the mountable familiars? Just food for though XP
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Post by JeffCross on Sept 17, 2015 11:30:26 GMT -6
That sounds really cool, but my only questions are how many of them will be mountable? And does that mean that certain staples of the castlevania series will be left behind for the mountable familiars? Just food for though XP I don't think many will be mountable... but if a familiars is mountable I think there should be some prerequisites before we can ride them... like, they need to be a certain lv or they need a certain power... maybe they need to wear a certain piece of armor, in one of my other posts I suggested familiars should have weapons and armor not for stats but special abilities (can't seem to find it so I might just make a thread for that). I don't see any Castlevania staples being left behind... can you elaborate on that. The only difference is that some familiars will be mountable.
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Post by zanzuki93 on Sept 17, 2015 23:50:31 GMT -6
Like if you have a flying mount won't that defeat the purpose of having something like bat company from Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow or perhaps the griffon wing from other Castlevania games?
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Post by JeffCross on Sept 18, 2015 1:31:01 GMT -6
Like if you have a flying mount won't that defeat the purpose of having something like bat company from Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow or perhaps the griffon wing from other Castlevania games? Ahhhh... I get it now... it shouldn't effect the flow of the game, not if you cannot get the familiar to fly until later on in the game. but imagine it, I would love to see flying mounts, giant wolf mounts (a la Princess Mononoke) or even riding on the shoulder of a giant armor (a la shonen mech stories)... it would give the game s whole new feel... at least a completely different feel than Castlevania. any other ideas?
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Post by zanzuki93 on Sept 18, 2015 18:37:47 GMT -6
What if whenever you are on top the familiar you could attack with the familiar. However they could decide to just have Miriam attack instead of the familiar any input on whether Miriam or the familiar she is riding on should be the one attacking?
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Post by JeffCross on Sept 18, 2015 21:29:17 GMT -6
What if whenever you are on top the familiar you could attack with the familiar. However they could decide to just have Miriam attack instead of the familiar any input on whether Miriam or the familiar she is riding on should be the one attacking? I would think that on some she could and some the mount will attack... and some special ones it could be both, like she could attack and the AI would attack when it wants/needs to. I would think it could depend on the armor (maybe saddle) or weapon the familiar is equipped with (if they do that whole weapons and armor thing lol)
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Post by smudboy on Sept 21, 2015 7:47:29 GMT -6
I would like to see the smoothness of Alucard in Miriam's movements. Which would complement a large amount of animation to support the nuances of player behavior we saw in SotN.
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Post by JeffCross on Sept 21, 2015 18:02:09 GMT -6
I would like to see the smoothness of Alucard in Miriam's movements. Which would complement a large amount of animation to support the nuances of player behavior we saw in SotN. Thanks for the input and I agree... but the thread was about mounts for Miriam, whether or not they make it part of the game is another matter lol.
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Post by BahamutKaiser on Sept 22, 2015 17:12:39 GMT -6
An interesting steed of sorts would offer some ingesting gameplay and interactions if done well. Some sort of spell which materializes or teleports a mythical horse like Slephnir or a Qilin would be awesome.
My concern stems mostly from how effectively a steed type travel and combat would interact with level design. If you remember the wolf transformation in SotN, there were very few places you could enjoy dashing across the screen, and very few meaningful interactions you could have with opponents as well.
If they introduce a mount, it would benefit from being designed with more vertical mobility, maybe the ability to run on walls and ceilings if they are the right texture, and focus more on having is own set of powerful attacks, allowing you to hit foes with the crushing force of attacks from horseback in combination with the horses thrashing and kicking. It could be an interesting display of just how brutal an equine can be in combat if done well.
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Post by JeffCross on Sept 22, 2015 17:43:17 GMT -6
An interesting steed of sorts would offer some ingesting gameplay and interactions if done well. Some sort of spell which materializes or teleports a mythical horse like Slephnir or a Qilin would be awesome. My concern stems mostly from how effectively a steed type travel and combat would interact with level design. If you remember the wolf transformation in SotN, there were very few places you could enjoy dashing across the screen, and very few meaningful interactions you could have with opponents as well. If they introduce a mount, it would benefit from being designed with more vertical mobility, maybe the ability to run on walls and ceilings if they are the right texture, and focus more on having is own set of powerful attacks, allowing you to hit foes with the crushing force of attacks from horseback in combination with the horses thrashing and kicking. It could be an interesting display of just how brutal an equine can be in combat if done well. Love that Idea, maybe instead of having gaining certain powers Miriam can get mounts to get through certain areas... or not but it still a good idea for some mounts. I like the horse kicks XD. maybe mounts can be a lower form of a power you'll get later like... a hawk or bird type glider to get across certain places... then later you get the real flying ability. maybe a large rodent type creature that can jump from wall to wall but it has a stamina bar so you can't reach higher places until later. I want to ride a dragon viva the arcade game dragon breed... but I think you should be able to use it in certain places... like a wide open place.
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Post by BahamutKaiser on Sept 23, 2015 23:02:20 GMT -6
I never cared much for Dragon Riding, I'd be happier if Gebel had a dragon transformation power as one of his hidden OP options, but that's me.
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Post by crocodile on Sept 23, 2015 23:19:08 GMT -6
I can't think of many examples where having a mount would be easier to use, easier to incorporate into the game and/or easier to work into the level design than a traversal power up or a transformation would be. Seems more "cool" than practical or particularly interesting/fun.
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Post by JeffCross on Sept 24, 2015 2:11:33 GMT -6
I can't think of many examples where having a mount would be easier to use, easier to incorporate into the game and/or easier to work into the level design than a traversal power up or a transformation would be. Seems more "cool" than practical or particularly interesting/fun. yeah I agree it is more for the cool factor... but as Iga said it will be a large map so I believe there will be parts where these "mounts" could be useful. That is only if Iga-sama looked more into an open style "castle" I can see it working... and than on the flip side I can see it utterly failing lol. but that is why I made the thread to bounce ideas on people... I like your point that it wouldn't work if the lv design are like the traditional castlevania style lvs. that completely whooshed by me lol but again if the lv design is different than it might work.
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Post by BahamutKaiser on Sept 25, 2015 13:36:42 GMT -6
Honestly I didn't contribute to see a minimum viable product. Most of the Castlevania games following SotN fell short of the variety and diversity of unique features SotN displayed.
So when Iga says let me do an Igavania game the way it was meant to be done, without publisher restraints, with roguelike mode and boss revenge and more playable characters. I pretty much expect Bloodstained to raise the bar above SotN and make a new benchmark.
That means if something like figuring out how to make a cool mount function as an enjoyable gameplay element than go for it. Mounts aren't specifically the feature the game needs to be better, but elevation should be pursued in some fashion. I don't want to hear anything about a minimum viable product, I'd fund an indie experiment for that.
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Post by JeffCross on Sept 28, 2015 0:40:17 GMT -6
Honestly I didn't contribute to see a minimum viable product. Most of the Castlevania games following SotN fell short of the variety and diversity of unique features SotN displayed. So when Iga says let me do an Igavania game the way it was meant to be done, without publisher restraints, with roguelike mode and boss revenge and more playable characters. I pretty much expect Bloodstained to raise the bar above SotN and make a new benchmark. That means if something like figuring out how to make a cool mount function as an enjoyable gameplay element than go for it. Mounts aren't specifically the feature the game needs to be better, but elevation should be pursued in some fashion. I don't want to hear anything about a minimum viable product, I'd fund an indie experiment for that. If it were me I would just make it enemy specific... like if an enemy can ride a monster you should be able to steal it from them. everything else seems too complicated.. imo
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Post by BahamutKaiser on Sept 28, 2015 14:34:48 GMT -6
From a game design perspective, a 2D action platformer is extremely rudimentary by modern standards. There are definitely still game design challenges, but something like a variety of sprite variations and motion behaviors could literally be sneezed at.
I mean it's 2D, it's exponentially easier to draw and produce art and behaviors for in comparison to a 3D game, and we've had complex 3D action platformers for a decade.
They may be being frugal with the budget, but they have to aim real low to avoid costs like these.
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Post by JeffCross on Sept 28, 2015 21:46:41 GMT -6
From a game design perspective, a 2D action platformer is extremely rudimentary by modern standards. There are definitely still game design challenges, but something like a variety of sprite variations and motion behaviors could literally be sneezed at. I mean it's 2D, it's exponentially easier to draw and produce art and behaviors for in comparison to a 3D game, and we've had complex 3D action platformers for a decade. They may be being frugal with the budget, but they have to aim real low to avoid costs like these. Actually 2D is harder to do than 3D... with 2D you'd have to draw every movement... but once a 3D model is complete it can be programmed to do whatever you want (within reason). I personally would not want to sneeze at "sprite variations and motion behaviors"... it is easier to change out multiple 3D models than it is to swap out multiple 2D sprites... cause with each sprite you'd need to draw all the movements of the other sprites and I personally think that would take forever. I personally think this is why Iga decided on 2.5D instead of a 2D game... at least if he was with Konami he would have access to all the old art... can you imagine having to start a 2D game from scratch? it will be easier with 3D once they have a model they can manipulate it how ever they want.
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Post by BahamutKaiser on Sept 29, 2015 14:00:39 GMT -6
Even if you had to draw out everything in 2D, and you don't, it's still far less time and cost consuming than 3D. If they take it to next gen, they can make 2D models with infinitely less complexity to 3D modeling.
If in fact they are using 3D models, that would actually be a more compelling constraint... and still one I'd expect to be done with rich features. There are plenty of Metroidvania indie games out there doing enough, I expect the master to deliver a masterpiece.
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Post by JeffCross on Sept 29, 2015 17:57:56 GMT -6
This is not the thread to try to prove this case, so I will jest say Bloodstaind will have 3D models and background but have a 2D view... that is why they call it 2.5D. so I am expecting Iga and his team to pull out all the stops and make the lushest, organic, living castle possible.
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