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Post by saberwolf94 on May 29, 2019 16:32:14 GMT -6
(they have changed the shipment from 1 to 3 for those that backed high tiers for the collectables) About that, I don't think it was said explicitly that there would be 3 shipments. How I'm reading this is that there will be a total of 2, and one of the reasons for there being 2 is waiting on the Amano poster to be done. I think 3 may or may not be necessary depending on how long it takes for him to finish it, but for right now I see in those paragraphs "All the backer rewards aside from the physical copies of the game will arrive later in a single shipment", so if at all possible for all parties, two makes the most sense. Well, they clearly stated in the update email I got that they will be sending the physical copies on their own so they get on time to everyone. Backer collectables will come later so that they put complete focus on shipping the actual games. They specifically mentioned however that the amano poster is even exempt from that, that could perhaps change but from what I understood from their email is that it won't be too long of a wait for the backer collectables, we may very well get them within a couple of weeks after getting the game, but for the amano poster it might even take a month or more. I mean, they chose to specifically address it so that's how I understand it. I hope you're right though and it does indeed split to just 2 shipments maximum, if they're clever this is what they'll do.
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Post by Aztec on May 29, 2019 20:01:34 GMT -6
browren, my man. I get it. Something you loved and thought would be awesome turned into a personalized shitshow. I'd be right there with you if I hadn't done the exact same thing to good people. I fired them. Folks with kids, dying relatives, emotional grief. Good, hard-working people in hard times. I fired them. Why? Because I work for a business, and success as a business includes cutting losses. They were mad. Some made threats. I quietly 'forgot' the threats to not add to the stress to their lives that police showing up at the door causes. Business is not a philosophical pursuit. It's not an ethical pursuit. It's a financial pursuit. Maintaining a positive influx of revenue against the cost of running the business is a shitty game where every drop downward means someone's day or even life is going to suck, suck, *suck*. While probably not the help you're looking for, I suggest you cut your own losses. You're mad. Things are not going your way. Just let it go. You aren't going to right any universal wrongs here. Also, in letting it go, the future may hold an opportunity to enjoy the game in a different way at a vastly cheaper cost. If you let this rage sour you, you're doing a disservice to the you in the past that donated to the cause and was excited to play this. Either way, I hope you figure out a solution that let's you move on. Goddamn this is a splendid post. Bravo bravo bravo! If there was a prize to be won for best post of the month, or year, you’d have my vote.
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Post by Aztec on May 29, 2019 20:06:23 GMT -6
Either way, I hope you figure out a solution that let's you move on. I'm not going anywhere until 505 refunds my money or admits there's never been any technical problem and it's just greed.
Maybe for you it's just another "business decision" but for me, they've insulted and besmirched the platform I've spent the last two decades of my life helping to make, they've taken my money and given me nothing, and they are definitely not my employers making a hard business decision, they're thieves. The whole thing could have been resolved for peanuts compared to what they're going to pocket selling our backer perks, and still it's too much to ask.
I'm not betraying any previous beliefs. I was happy to back the game because they had committed to a linux version. If they hadn't, I would have waited until the Windows version came out and then worked on Wine compatibility instead.
Can I ask something while trusting you’d be 100% honest? How much did you backed this project for?
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Post by Cale on May 29, 2019 22:55:08 GMT -6
Can I ask something while trusting you’d be 100% honest? How much did you backed this project for? Careful, your entitlement is showing.
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Post by Overlord on May 29, 2019 22:59:14 GMT -6
Jesus Christ the drama never ends! As a $125 backer I voted for everything being available for everyone. I hate gatekeeping content and I didn’t back this game just to get a fucking exclusive weapon and boss fight. I backed this project to help get the spiritual successor to my favorite game of all time get made. It’s nice I’m getting that extra content too but I don’t care if they’re selling it for $10 for everyone else. I really don’t care. And to those claiming this is the same as “stealing from your backers” need to take a big glass of grow the eff up and stop being so entitled. I can’t wait for the game to come out so we can all put this embarrassing episode behind us. You simply need to learn that your way isn't the only way. I backed this game because IGA's Castlevanias easily make up one of my favorite series, and it's the only one that has been missing for the past ten years, so naturally there's been a bit of a void for me. But the Kickstarter didn't require that to be the reason. It didn't require any reason. You, and everyone else acting like you, have no right to tell anyone else why they should have backed the game. If they didn't want people to back for a Mac or Linux version, then they shouldn't have offered one. If they didn't want people to back for exclusive content, then they shouldn't have offered any. And I wonder, if you hate "gatekeeping" so much, why did you back a game that was offering such content? So you're allowed to support something you're against, and you have a problem with other people that don't just accept what they're against. That's odd, to say the least.
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Post by browren on May 30, 2019 5:22:21 GMT -6
Goddamn this is a splendid post. Bravo bravo bravo! If there was a prize to be won for best post of the month, or year, you’d have my vote. Of course you would - the publisher of this game openly admitted to being a thief and here you are, cheering for 505 like piracy is the best thing in the world. If Gabe Newell or Andrew Wilson had written that they'd pirated games in the past, the entire gaming press would be up in arms over it, but hey, it's fine when 505 does it!
You wouldn't download a car, would you? LOL I'm not going anywhere until 505 refunds my money or admits there's never been any technical problem and it's just greed.
Maybe for you it's just another "business decision" but for me, they've insulted and besmirched the platform I've spent the last two decades of my life helping to make, they've taken my money and given me nothing, and they are definitely not my employers making a hard business decision, they're thieves. The whole thing could have been resolved for peanuts compared to what they're going to pocket selling our backer perks, and still it's too much to ask.
I'm not betraying any previous beliefs. I was happy to back the game because they had committed to a linux version. If they hadn't, I would have waited until the Windows version came out and then worked on Wine compatibility instead.
Can I ask something while trusting you’d be 100% honest? How much did you backed this project for? $60, like I have said multiple times now. They could have prevented this entire thing for less than they pay one developer for an hour. THAT'S the problem, literally EVERYTHING they have said has been a lie. There's no technical problem with the game on Linux or Mac, they just don't want to pay for the work. They could easily afford to refund Linux and Mac backers, but they want to keep our money. They could easily at least DELAY publishing backer perks as DLC, so it's exclusive for at least a little while, but they want the money. They could give upper-tier backers those steel cases to make up for the broken promises of exclusive content, but they'd rather sell them for more money.
Noticing a pattern? The only thing they care about is money, not treating backers right, not keeping kickstarter promises, just money. And why would they? They weren't part of the Kickstarter. As far as they're concerned, they bought up some IP that's going to sell like crazy, so they want to milk that shit for every penny it's worth.
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Post by browren on May 30, 2019 5:39:32 GMT -6
And seriously, I can't wait to see how much the online pass costs!
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Post by XombieMike on May 30, 2019 6:47:10 GMT -6
browren please don't double post. It's in the rules. Just edit your post if you have something to add unless someone has replied since or its been about a full day since your last reply, thanks. I agree with browren about the decisions 505 have made. We can't do anything to change it though. Bloodstained had an amazing Kickstarter due to the way it was handled. 505 wasn't involved and is more focused on getting as much money as possible without regard to the backers that made this possible in the first place. I also think they hold back information from backers that could have been announced long ago, but hold onto it for marketing reasons. I think we may see some of that in today's update. Regardless, if your only purpose on this forum is to repeat yourself to 505 and other backers about your disappointment with the game, could you just stop? I'm not calling for silence. Your points have been heard loud and clear. They just aren't changing anything in a productive way, and is impeding on the experience of satisfied and excited members of this community we have strived to cultivate. All respect intended.
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Post by browren on May 30, 2019 7:56:57 GMT -6
browren please don't double post. It's in the rules. Just edit your post if you have something to add unless someone has replied since or its been about a full day since your last reply, thanks. I apologize for the double posting. I've been trying very hard to avoid editing any of my posts so I don't get accused of saying things and then changing them to affect how the responses look. Who says this won't end with a nice little video of Iga throwing a small bag of cash down after a montage of mean posts about how platform cancellations were handled? They could easily refund every single Linux and Mac backer with just the DLC money from the first 300 preorders, and you KNOW they're well past that number. Hell, they probably blew past that in the first ten minutes of preorders... Besides, the only thing that makes corporations change their greedy behaviour is public pressure. I doubt 505 would really like it very much if Polygon ran a story about how their ex-pirate publishing manager ripped off Linux and Mac backers a second time right before they release the game, and really, do you think nobody will bring what they did to us up every time 505 publishes a game from now on? Well, obviously. You think if they'd announced the $10 backer-perk DLC before they told the Linux and Mac backers to switch to physical that they would have still taken the bait and given up on getting a direct refund? It's almost like they're being led by an experienced thief. Oh wait. My purpose is the same as it has always been - to get 505 to refund me since they ripped me off, or to make them prove they really have a technical problem. I am STILL willing to accept a legitimate technical explanation for the problem and just walk away. Show me the bug, name the UE4 plugin that's broken, and I'll be more than happy to say "well at least they tried" and leave. You and the other admins have told the "satisfied and excited members" to not engage me, you've told them and I've told them that this is between me and 505 and no one else, so if they're not going to listen to that, it's on them. Nobody asked anyone to play 505's public defender, but I'm sure 505 doesn't mind not having to answer themselves. Of course, since neither Question nor Angel-Corlux have answered me publicly, and all I got on Discord was a dismissive "I'm too busy to answer you right now", I guess I'm just going to have to take Angel-Corlux 's words literally as a direct endorsement of resorting to piracy when a company screws you over. I think that's disgusting. Typical pirate's attitude though - no stealing from them, but if they want to steal something from someone else, they will!
Actually, it looks like he has time to joke around on Discord about drinking, so it's just that they're ignoring this and hoping it'll go away. Don't be posting pictures of Captain Avatar dude, right now you look more like Jack Sparrow to me.
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Post by XombieMike on May 30, 2019 9:01:10 GMT -6
Well, I really wish 505 would refund you. Your public pressure statement makes sense to me. However, it is affecting everyone here, not just 505, to hear you continue your refund campaign. This wouldn't be an issue of you could just be refunded. Can we compromise? Can you take that to Twitter and not here? I feel the need to keep this place constructive and a place fans want to be. Your words here in the forum are almost just a private statement. Twitter is much more public and influential for your goal, which I wish you luck with.
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Post by browren on May 30, 2019 9:18:41 GMT -6
Fine.
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Post by minigendo on May 30, 2019 10:13:42 GMT -6
browren, my man. I get it. Something you loved and thought would be awesome turned into a personalized shitshow. I'd be right there with you if I hadn't done the exact same thing to good people. I fired them. Folks with kids, dying relatives, emotional grief. Good, hard-working people in hard times. I fired them. Why? Because I work for a business, and success as a business includes cutting losses. They were mad. Some made threats. I quietly 'forgot' the threats to not add to the stress to their lives that police showing up at the door causes. Business is not a philosophical pursuit. It's not an ethical pursuit. It's a financial pursuit. Maintaining a positive influx of revenue against the cost of running the business is a shitty game where every drop downward means someone's day or even life is going to suck, suck, *suck*. While probably not the help you're looking for, I suggest you cut your own losses. You're mad. Things are not going your way. Just let it go. You aren't going to right any universal wrongs here. Also, in letting it go, the future may hold an opportunity to enjoy the game in a different way at a vastly cheaper cost. If you let this rage sour you, you're doing a disservice to the you in the past that donated to the cause and was excited to play this. Either way, I hope you figure out a solution that let's you move on. I feel like there's a couple of appropriate quotes from a relevant video game for the stance you present here: "Business is not a philosophical pursuit. It's not an ethical pursuit. It's a financial pursuit." Dracula: Ha--Ah... Sarcasm. "For what profit is it to a man if he gains the world, and loses his own soul?" Matthew 16:26, I believe.
"Things are not going your way. Just let it go. You aren't going to right any universal wrongs here." Alucard: Indeed. But you must always remember that the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Ignoring the dramatic irony of the situation, it seems worthwhile to point out that viewed strictly from a business standpoint, as a matter of profit and loss, it probably would have been better just to quietly refund him some time ago. As a $60 backer, he only has to dissuade 3 or 4 people from making a purchase to inflict a loss equal to the price he's already paid. Given his public posts elsewhere about the game, he's probably already succeeded in that. There is no moral hazard in this, since as you say, a business is not a philosophical pursuit.
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Post by Mr. Welldone on May 30, 2019 11:04:56 GMT -6
The vast majority of folks don't do stuff to be wankers as the internet tends to believe. Could things have been handled better? Friggin' always. In the pitch of the fight, solutions are looked for at short distance to deal with an immediate problem. Only after the fact, when it's far too late and the plate is full of other pressing stuff, do we realize what we could have done.
New business, new mistakes, new solutions.
Hell, even the joke of IGA 'coming clean' has a bunch of 'journalists' being smug (I WILL PROVE THEM WRONG!).
Let's all take a step back.
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Post by absorbnix on May 30, 2019 16:27:33 GMT -6
Business is not a philosophical pursuit. It's not an ethical pursuit. It's a financial pursuit. Maintaining a positive influx of revenue against the cost of running the business is a shitty game where every drop downward means someone's day or even life is going to suck, suck, *suck*. While probably not the help you're looking for, I suggest you cut your own losses. You're mad. Things are not going your way. Just let it go.
Since a lot of people are complementing this post I want to register a formal rebuttal. Sure, business is about maximizing profits while minimizing expenses, I don't think anyone will argue with that. That does not mean extracting maximum value from something leads to maximum profit. If that were true Amazon wouldn't have operated at a loss for 15 years. Sometimes maintaining a market advantage or an intangible asset (like your brand and good name) is more important than dicking your investors/customers out of $60.
For 505 / Iga, they've made their priorities clear. Whether that is a smart business remains to be seen.
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Post by saberwolf94 on May 30, 2019 17:01:42 GMT -6
Business is not a philosophical pursuit. It's not an ethical pursuit. It's a financial pursuit. Maintaining a positive influx of revenue against the cost of running the business is a shitty game where every drop downward means someone's day or even life is going to suck, suck, *suck*. While probably not the help you're looking for, I suggest you cut your own losses. You're mad. Things are not going your way. Just let it go.
Since a lot of people are complementing this post I want to register a formal rebuttal. Sure, business is about maximizing profits while minimizing expenses, I don't think anyone will argue with that. That does not mean extracting maximum value from something leads to maximum profit. If that were true Amazon wouldn't have operated at a loss for 15 years. Sometimes maintaining a market advantage or an intangible asset (like your brand and good name) is more important than dicking your investors/customers out of $60.
For 505 / Iga, they've made their priorities clear. Whether that is a smart business remains to be seen.
I don't want to seem like an IGA a** kisser here but honestly I think he's not the one running the show anymore, in regards to selling the game and making business moves to ensure the game is a hit on the big picture. I don't know what kind of deals and signings went on between them, if 505 put in extra money in development for the game etc. but I don't think he's the primary figure calling the shots on big decisions. It's almost like he got caught on in the publisher's web but didn't have much choice in the matter. It'll be interesting to see if he wants his next game to be done in this crowdfunded fashion or just go back doing things the old fashioned way. I've no doubt that having to listen to backers and people as you go in this game development fashion must have been incredibly stressful than just making a game behind the scenes and revealing things when you're 70% done.
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Post by Mr. Welldone on May 30, 2019 22:49:41 GMT -6
Business is not a philosophical pursuit. It's not an ethical pursuit. It's a financial pursuit. Maintaining a positive influx of revenue against the cost of running the business is a shitty game where every drop downward means someone's day or even life is going to suck, suck, *suck*. While probably not the help you're looking for, I suggest you cut your own losses. You're mad. Things are not going your way. Just let it go.
Since a lot of people are complementing this post I want to register a formal rebuttal. Sure, business is about maximizing profits while minimizing expenses, I don't think anyone will argue with that. That does not mean extracting maximum value from something leads to maximum profit. If that were true Amazon wouldn't have operated at a loss for 15 years. Sometimes maintaining a market advantage or an intangible asset (like your brand and good name) is more important than dicking your investors/customers out of $60.
For 505 / Iga, they've made their priorities clear. Whether that is a smart business remains to be seen.
Destiny. The Division. Huge amounts of rage, huge amount of profit. Nothing of that level is occurring here. But I think you inflating things a bit for what is basically a charity with perks. Man. I'm still pissed about 40 bucks after 100 to get a fixed version of Destiny 2. Feh! I, however, did not scream to the heavens. I simply moved on. So it goes. Again. Nothing near that calibur occurring here.
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Post by saberwolf94 on May 31, 2019 0:19:02 GMT -6
Since a lot of people are complementing this post I want to register a formal rebuttal. Sure, business is about maximizing profits while minimizing expenses, I don't think anyone will argue with that. That does not mean extracting maximum value from something leads to maximum profit. If that were true Amazon wouldn't have operated at a loss for 15 years. Sometimes maintaining a market advantage or an intangible asset (like your brand and good name) is more important than dicking your investors/customers out of $60.
For 505 / Iga, they've made their priorities clear. Whether that is a smart business remains to be seen.
Destiny. The Division. Huge amounts of rage, huge amount of profit. Nothing of that level is occurring here. But I think you inflating things a bit for what is basically a charity with perks. Man. I'm still pissed about 40 bucks after 100 to get a fixed version of Destiny 2. Feh! I, however, did not scream to the heavens. I simply moved on. So it goes. Again. Nothing near that calibur occurring here. "Better" doesn't necessarily mean "good". Breaking a leg is better than breaking both legs and a hand but breaking a single leg is still not good thing.
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Post by Mr. Welldone on May 31, 2019 5:35:43 GMT -6
Ask the guy with two broken legs.
You gotta forgive me, I work in freight. Mitigating loss is my sole perspective.
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Angel-Corlux
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Post by Angel-Corlux on May 31, 2019 12:23:06 GMT -6
browren I've been replying to you publicly every time you pinged me, and I didn't dismiss you on Discord, I asked if you could repeat your question to me because I was told you pinged me but yesterday was the Zangetsu announce and I was indeed extremely, extremely busy.
For context although I try to reply as much as possible online, my actual job as the brand manager is to lead all publishing efforts for the game, so if for whatever reason I don't reply or ask for clarification or something, that's not me blowing you off, rest assured.
I understand if you're unhappy with the Mac & Linux situation, however we've addressed your questions. Platform changes were offered, upgrade to a physical were offered, we're too close to launch to continue that offer anymore, but if you emailed Fangamer requesting either of these two solutions in the past, they will have that in their records and will honor the request.
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Post by saberwolf94 on May 31, 2019 13:04:06 GMT -6
browren I've been replying to you publicly every time you pinged me, and I didn't dismiss you on Discord, I asked if you could repeat your question to me because I was told you pinged me but yesterday was the Zangetsu announce and I was indeed extremely, extremely busy.
For context although I try to reply as much as possible online, my actual job as the brand manager is to lead all publishing efforts for the game, so if for whatever reason I don't reply or ask for clarification or something, that's not me blowing you off, rest assured.
I understand if you're unhappy with the Mac & Linux situation, however we've addressed your questions. Platform changes were offered, upgrade to a physical were offered, we're too close to launch to continue that offer anymore, but if you emailed Fangamer requesting either of these two solutions in the past, they will have that in their records and will honor the request.
Angel, how will import fees be handled for overseas backers like me now that the shipment has changed from 1 to 3 (physical game, backer collectables, amano poster separate from that).
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