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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 7:25:37 GMT -6
As a Switch backer, I knew from the beginning that it would be the worst version of the game tech-wise, it's a trade-off for the portabilty factor. I'm mostly disappointed by the fact the the video footage shown in the Nintendo Direct was not representative of the final product that the console will get, but again, it shouldn't come as a surprise since the PAX build was one of the very first Switch build and ran at 30fps and below.
Even if I'm a bit bummed about the 30fps cap, I wouldn't mind that much IF it's 30fps rock solid without frame pacing issues and with responsive controls.
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Post by hyugakojiro on Apr 27, 2019 8:00:41 GMT -6
Maybe i don't have a perfect eyesight (well, i wear glasses) but i can't see a difference between 30 and 60 FPS on that link Ciel just showed us. I mean, it just looks...faster. But that doesn't mean it looks and feels better. I would like to really see the difference in quality between 30FPS and 60FPS like @holyc can, but i just can't, i guess. Or maybe i can if the difference is obvious. That example, at least, all i could see it is that it spins faster, but that means nothing to me. Does anyone have any video or something that compares two games, running 30 and 60 FPS? I'm curious now. Maybe i'm not capable of seeing the difference between 30 and 60 FPS,like some people that can't see 3D effects on movies?
Here's a video comparing Sekiro on PS4 vs PS4 Pro that contains several FPS compares.
If PS4 users can beat and enjoy Sekiro at 30-40 FPS then I don't see why Switch users can't have a blast with Bloodstained at a solid 30 FPS.
As far as immersion goes it's much more of an issue when you have an unsteady frame-rate as can be seen below:
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Post by Pure Miriam on Apr 27, 2019 14:44:17 GMT -6
hyugakojiroWell, i can definitely can see the difference now, although it isn't that much. Maybe it is my eyes, so this is not a criticism, but TO ME, it feels like some people became "graphics / FPS sommelier"... Small details that (me, at least) can barely be seen.
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Post by freddythemonkey on Apr 27, 2019 15:41:26 GMT -6
The difference between 60 and 30FPS is hardly a "small detail" or something only brought out to play the role of some kind of elitist snob. It feels better at higher framerates, there's little to discuss there. Bloodstained is not the type of game which requires split second precision so stable 30FPS is perfectly fine, but nowadays I believe that 60 should become the standard, with the exception of slower and particularly graphics-heavy titles.
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Post by Arsenical on Apr 27, 2019 17:14:55 GMT -6
i know nothing about the impact and costs of developing a game when it comes to graphics and performance but if its money we are talking about its a little unfair to compare an indi game such as bloodstained to a AAA game developed by teams with loooots of experience and probably millions of bucks to throw away.
bloodstained got what? 5.5m from KS and who knows how much from others sources (505games, slacker backer, IGA'S personal wallet of dreams, other shady sources) but i still dont think that compares to the amount of $ and other resources dropped on games such as Mortal Kombat or Mario.
EDIT: holy mother of drakengard that video gave me flashbacks of the horrible FPS drops and screen tearing i had to face when i was playing resident evil 5. it gets very annoying and hard to get used to.
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Post by rav4ishing on Apr 28, 2019 0:08:52 GMT -6
The difference between 60 and 30FPS is hardly a "small detail" or something only brought out to play the role of some kind of elitist snob. It feels better at higher framerates, there's little to discuss there. Bloodstained is not the type of game which requires split second precision so stable 30FPS is perfectly fine, but nowadays I believe that 60 should become the standard, with the exception of slower and particularly graphics-heavy titles. I agree. It's definitely not a small detail. When you consider that games are remade in HD at 60 fps (i.e., DmC) and sold again, it's a big detail that entices consumers to spend money on the same game again. |
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Post by Pure Miriam on Apr 28, 2019 1:48:10 GMT -6
freddythemonkey rav4ishing I didn't said that in a offensive tone. I let it very clearly that I CAN'T see such a big difference. But that's just me, of course. Maybe the difference is more obvious to all of you than it is for me, or something.
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Post by gunlord500 on Apr 28, 2019 2:30:03 GMT -6
It's OK, Pure Miriam, we know you weren't trying to be offensive or confrontational. It is true, drops in FPS may be more noticeable for more people, as everyone's eyesight is different. It's certainly pretty complex, actually--'eyesight' can actually be divided up into a variety of different tasks (acuity--discerning shapes, color vision, obviously, and motion perception, which is what's relevant to fps), and some folks have different capabilities in each of those areas. But we can all come together to enjoy the game 
As an aside, differences in motion perception occur across species naturally. I've heard that 60 frames per second is enough for most people, and that people with very strong motion perception can see a difference in movies up to 100 fps, but many birds can see more than that--it's important for both predators and prey.
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Post by spideryfingers on Apr 28, 2019 5:21:19 GMT -6
I'm currently playing Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS (brilliant game btw) but there's been some debate whether or not it plays at 30fps or 60fps. Personally, whatever the frame rate, I think the game plays with a seamless fluidity and is a joy to behold. If Bloodstained plays like Samus Returns, then there'll certainly be no complains on my part.
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Post by ovenkitty on Apr 28, 2019 22:54:58 GMT -6
The differences between 30 and 60 fps also depend on stability. If a game plays at a steady 30fps you may find it more pleasing than a targeted 60 fps if it's unstable. So when a dev says a game runs at Xfps it doesn't necessarily tell you too much, it depends on overall performance. A game could run at a locked 60fps and look like crap because of lag/slow-down.
@pure Miriam , I also used to think it was sort of elitist, until I really started testing it. I've played the crap out of SotN, (I'm sure most of us have). SotN runs at a pretty stable 60fps on the psx, psp, and ps4 pro. Try that game out on an emulator or something at a reduced frame-rate and you'll be able to tell the difference... or try out the Saturn version. The differences are most notable when you have a basis of comparison.
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Post by ReySol on Apr 29, 2019 1:54:37 GMT -6
I agree 60 fps should standard for today`s games. I guess for Bloodstained on Switch there are too limiting factors, specs of Switch and money/time for making a port.
Anyway, I will be happy with Bloodstained on Switch as long as it looks and plays fine. We get so much more form this project, like art, music and all the excitement that has been building up for the last few years.
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Post by rav4ishing on Apr 29, 2019 8:22:21 GMT -6
freddythemonkey rav4ishing I didn't said that in a offensive tone. I let it very clearly that I CAN'T see such a big difference. But that's just me, of course. Maybe the difference is more obvious to all of you than it is for me, or something. Hello there :-) It never crossed my mind it was offensive. No worries! |
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Post by Pure Miriam on Apr 29, 2019 16:42:17 GMT -6
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Post by gunlord500 on Apr 29, 2019 18:21:40 GMT -6
But man, you know, higher fps isn't always better, some things look really weird at 60 fps. Check this out:
It seems like classic cartoons relied on lower framerates to keep the energy and appeal of the animation.
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Post by crocodile on Apr 29, 2019 21:01:39 GMT -6
Trying to compare cartoons to video game FPS are an apple to oranges comparison. Video games are an interactive medium, cartoons are not. They have different needs and have different goals. To say nothing of the fact comparing 2D Cell art to 3D model animation is going to be tough. 30 v 60 FPS isn't just a graphical issue but has gameplay implications for responsiveness, timing, feel, etc. That is not to say 30 FPS is a dealbreaker or anything but people (not everybody but not an insignificant number) are going to notice and not just from how the game looks.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 1, 2019 11:58:50 GMT -6
Hey all, please be advised the the update will arrive tomorrow instead
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Post by rav4ishing on May 1, 2019 12:33:34 GMT -6
Hey all, please be advised the the update will arrive tomorrow instead Bummer!!!! |
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Post by Dragon_of_Dojima on May 2, 2019 9:59:37 GMT -6
But man, you know, higher fps isn't always better, some things look really weird at 60 fps. Check this out: It seems like classic cartoons relied on lower framerates to keep the energy and appeal of the animation. I must be crazy then, because that looks fantastic. Hell, it looks like Cuphead running at that speed. But yeah, the apples and oranges analogy is more than apt. Too different to compare. As far as the Switch running at 30, it's a pity for a 2D game(2.5, whatever). Though I'm getting it on PC, so it doesn't affect me at all. Frame pacing and being steady(as well as camera in the case of The Last of Us on PS4) are just as important. Bloodborne would have been a lot better at 30 with steady frames and better frame pacing...but that didn't happen. It's weird with From Software. |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on May 2, 2019 11:05:59 GMT -6
Bloodborne doesn't suffer at all from it, I'd say, and somehow or another often looks/feels like it's higher than 30, must be the cloth physics or something. That game and Dark Souls 1 were designed to be/run 30 and those are definitely games you need precise control/quick decisions in.
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Post by Hertzila on May 2, 2019 15:29:44 GMT -6
It's too bad that the Switch version couldn't play at 60fps, but oh well. That's the price to pay on a portable console. Ultimately, Bloodstained is not the lightest game, full 3D rendering takes its toll and the team doesn't have the resources and time to focus on just the Switch port at a low-level like exclusives can, to say nothing of what Nintendo themselves can do.
Framerate is one of those things that are harder to notice without having something to compare it to, but once you get used to higher rates, lower rate feels very sluggish afterwards. Higher framerate makes basically everything feel better to use. Windows feels better to use at a high framerate. Something like Crash feels quite a bit better on PC with a higher framerate.
However, a stable framerate is still at least workable. Even if I would really prefer a minimum framerate of 60 (it just feels so much better!), a stable 30 is still perfectly functional, at least if the game doesn't require precise input. Even somewhat variable framerate, while bad on ordinary monitors (either suffer from screen tearing or v-sync lag), could be pretty much fixed with variable refresh rate tech (G-Sync or FreeSync). But then there are the massive framerate drops that just destroy the smooth feeling of any framerate. Even at lower framerates, going from 30 to 10 is just awful.
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