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Post by Jango on Aug 21, 2018 15:43:16 GMT -6
I understand that a lot of people are salty after the announcements so emotional posts are expected. That said, if anyone thinks that the Bloodstained devs cancelled the Vita port for any reason besides them absolutely having to then you're a fool. There is 100% no way they would make such a decision and willingly welcome the backlash and PR bomb that goes with it. No. Their backs were clearly up against the wall here. Again, I know people are upset and disappointed but it's important to maintain a three-dimensional perspective here. The burden of proof is on them. They need to show us that it wasn't possible via a DEMO, video or at lease better technical explanations. Right now, there are too many contradictions on their reasoning behind the cancelation (which I said a few times in this topic). On a personal note, using the term "salty" in normally associated with trolling and mocking people. Would I be correct to assume that you didn't back this game for a Vita version? The Bloodstained dev team wanting to make a commercially successful and financially beneficial product needs no proof. They aren't any happier about plans changing and handing out refunds than the backers are. And they are far more unhappy about the bad PR and the hit to their supporter's morale than the supporters themselves are. The devs have much more to lose from these things than their supporters do. For us it's bad news about a game we've all been looking forward to receiving and all the disappointment that goes with that. But for the devs it's their livelihood. What's really sad is the irony that the biggest help to Iga getting to make another 'vania game could end up being the same thing that makes him unable to make any more in the future. Thanks, Kickstarter.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Aug 21, 2018 15:49:52 GMT -6
We were discussing "the last physical Vita game to exist" (your words) in regards to the possibility to publish physical vita games in 2019 or later. What you consider "official new game releases" is irrelevant to this. Fair enough I suppose. There will be games physically made later in some capacity, I'll give you that.
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Post by demiurgos on Aug 21, 2018 15:52:45 GMT -6
We were discussing "the last physical Vita game to exist" (your words) in regards to the possibility to publish physical vita games in 2019 or later. What you consider "official new game releases" is irrelevant to this. Fair enough I suppose. There will be games physically made later in some capacity, I'll give you that. Thank you.
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Post by ZeroSbr on Aug 21, 2018 18:10:56 GMT -6
I am definitely getting a refund. Curse of the Moon was a nice side, but RotN is the entree I paid for. Not only did IGA fail to deliver his promise about the Vita version, but he also failed to deliver his promise to get the game itself out on time, delaying it to 2019. This situation isn't much better than the MN9 fiasco at this point, and I will never trust any "legendary" developer who tries going indie and asks for donations ever again. This is the first and last Kickstarter project I will ever support. The $175 I will be getting refunded will be much better spent on classes for increasing my skill set for my career anyways. This will likely be my last post. RotN lost most of its appeal a while ago, but this is the final nail in the coffin. Goodbye everyone. Sorry, but I think they'll only refund you the game, you're still paying for the swag (until Fangamer replies to my e-mail saying otherwize). No, they've decided to give me a full refund. I'm going to put that refund money right into my savings where it will be better spent.
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Post by saberwolf94 on Aug 21, 2018 19:15:51 GMT -6
I understand that a lot of people are salty after the announcements so emotional posts are expected. That said, if anyone thinks that the Bloodstained devs cancelled the Vita port for any reason besides them absolutely having to then you're a fool. There is 100% no way they would make such a decision and willingly welcome the backlash and PR bomb that goes with it. No. Their backs were clearly up against the wall here. Again, I know people are upset and disappointed but it's important to maintain a three-dimensional perspective here. And in the spirit of maintaining that three-dimensional perspective, for all the people complaining about Kickstarter game development always disappointing in some capacity remember that Iga actually said he agrees with you. haha In traditional game development the public almost never learned a title existed until it was about 70% completed. Obviously that strategy circumvents almost all the problems most frequently plaguing Kickstarter games. The speedbumps Bloodstained has ran into are no different than the ones large publisher games face. Unfortunately, most consumers don't care to do their homework or understand the nature of the production they're investing in with Kickstarter. Getting a peek behind the curtain of game development comes with a price. Believe it or not it's not all fun and games.
I can't help but agree with you on the second part, it's true things can always pop up in game development they didn't plan for, but since we already got behind the curtains in this situation you can't help but wonder about what's going on behind the scenes multiple times until the game comes out. You're probably right about them possibly having no choice to cancel the Vita port for all we know they may have lost money and time as well on that but at the same time we don't have any evidence. Perhaps, they'd rather upset a few thousand people as the price for not going through the trouble releasing it on the vita maybe even saving money. The juice is not worth the squeeze saying. It's a speculation but it doesn't help that IGA made such a scripted and robotic video. Perhaps there wasn't any time for anything else, but I would have preferred for him to speak casually and from the heart, convince me with his own words how this is for the best.
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Post by saberwolf94 on Aug 21, 2018 19:25:56 GMT -6
What some people dont understand is that backing a Kickstarter project is a donation, not a pre-order. Of course when they promise something they should deliver but they're not on a contract with you. If things change they can and will change them and there's little to nothing you can do about it short of asking for a refund. There are risks and chaallenges when backing these projects and I'd be amazed if most of the Vita backers dont have at least one other viable current platform for gaming in 2019. Anyone who's hardcore enough to own a Vita is also hardcore enough to own at least one other platform, I remember reading somewhere that the vast majority of Vita users owned also a PS4 at least. I cant imagine there will be a significant amount of backers asking for a refund since most will probbaly just change the platform.
That's quite true, at the end of the day they're the ones in control but regarding having other platforms that's not a really professional thing to think. In my case I'm getting the physical release on PS4 and ordered the digital one for Vita and don't have any other current platforms to get it on. As luck would have I don't own a Nintendo Switch but plan to get one in late 2019 or 2020 so as long the code doesn't have an expiry date for redemption I can enter the NS as the other platform. But if it wasn't for that then I'd have no choice but to get the same game twice for the PS4. Fangamer replied to my message saying as far as they know NS codes don't expire so maybe it can work out like this.
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Post by saberwolf94 on Aug 21, 2018 19:32:10 GMT -6
Very interesting. Well, here's hoping I'll get that fangamer e-mail soon so I can get a refund, then. I like how quickly they changed the Pledge info back on the Kickstarter page! I only went with the $60 version to get the Vita physical release, not the super-high priced one, however, so I guess I'll have to see how this goes. I'm disappointed, but not really surprised other than the lack of a digital version (which I wouldn't want anyway, considering I want this thing on the Vita, and memory card space is a premium on this thing).I guess maybe since there's another delay by the time it comes out it won't be worth it anymore? I don't know, for me I always wondered if the Vita could handle the full game and run well since they're going all out on the consoles but I thought that if they announced it there they must know it's possible.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Aug 21, 2018 19:36:36 GMT -6
ZeroSbrAlthough i don't agree with you in some points, i completely understand your reasoning. It's unfortunate that things ended up they way they did. It's sad to see you, kinda parting due to that, but i respect that. I hope you come back one day when the game is out, if you decide on buy it, to talk to us about your impressions. I would be eager to know them after such disappointment. I hope we get to see you here once in a while, actually. After all, this community is still great, even if you got disapppinted by what happened
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Post by Waifu4Life on Aug 21, 2018 19:38:19 GMT -6
Sorry, but I think they'll only refund you the game, you're still paying for the swag (until Fangamer replies to my e-mail saying otherwize). No, they've decided to give me a full refund. I'm going to put that refund money right into my savings where it will be better spent. UPDATEYes my friend, I've also gotten a new reply from them saying that they've revised the situation and offered me a refund on collector's box. Not sure about the 2nd copy I've purchased after the Kickstarter, but I'm willing to keep this as a thank you gesture and compromised of this awkward situation. PS4 was not the way I planed on playing Bloostained, but it beats having to buy a Switch I guess. Still, if they change their mind on the Vita version down the road, I think I'll start crying 😭 JangoYou're seeing the game industry tinted rose glasses. It's not my friend, people like Jim Sterling make a living out of reporting their bad habits.
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Post by saberwolf94 on Aug 21, 2018 21:03:52 GMT -6
I've been reading a lot about people saying that the Vita wouldn't have been able to run this game. I get the feeling that these people haven't played a lot of games on the Vita to begin with. I have a large library of physical Vita games I can can say this, this systems works great with 2D and 2.5D. If I compare these games on a PS3 at 720p and PSTV at 720p: Rayman Origins, Rayman Legend (with a homebrew that allows gyromotions on PSTV) and Dragon's Crown, I can barely tell them apart. And yes I know, Bloodstained was never planned for the PS3, but can you serious say that this system wouldn't be able to handle that game? I doubt a major downgrade would have been required to run this game on the Vita, but I guess we'll never know now. I always didn't know what to think, with all the stretch goals and content I imagined how the finished product would be for the consoles and wondered if the vita would be able to handle it and handle it well. But I thought hey, if the said it's coming then it must be possible so I was happy at the prospect of playing this on a portable too like Dracula X Chronicles, the DS and GBA games. I can't help but think it that yeah, the Vita wouldn't be able to handle the game smoothly which is the important part, IGA did say on an interview that he wants the game to run the same for all platforms so maybe that's what happened. For all we know they might be having difficulty porting on the switch. I'm not a professional this is all speculation, but I too feel the "Sony dropped support for the Vita" doesn't seem like the real reason.
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Post by saberwolf94 on Aug 21, 2018 21:07:36 GMT -6
.....Armature has been working on this for quite some time, right? What about their work on the engine adaptation for vita? WTF, etc.? Have you seen any screenshot of gameplay video of the Vita or Wii U? No? Well that's because they haven't done anything up to this point. The main platforms were always PS4, XBONE and PC, the "plan" was to have Armature port them to the Vita and Wii U. When the Wii U version was scrapped in favor of the Switch, I jumped on the forums to ask about the Vita version, people said that everything was still on track for that port. but it was then I realised that we had yet to see any proof that it was in development. I asked a few more time as the months passed about news, screenshot and videos, but no, nothing. A few months later and now here we are 😠 Isn't this how porting works though? Am no professional but doesn't the game get finished entirely first and then the porting happens?
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Post by silentsanctum on Aug 21, 2018 21:54:14 GMT -6
Isn't this how porting works though? Am no professional but doesn't the game get finished entirely first and then the porting happens? Yeah, usually. But I've worked on projects where the weekly build was sent to Asia for a different team to add Asian-market specific features to the game. There was also a port for the Xperia Play being developed at one point. But both of these were done very close to the end of development and any changes were usually just bug fixes or cosmetic adjustments. When it came to porting between handheld and desktop versions though, that was a complete fork of the project done after the main version was completed.
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Post by gunlord500 on Aug 21, 2018 22:16:30 GMT -6
ZeroSbr Although i don't agree with you in some points, i completely understand your reasoning. It's unfortunate that things ended up they way they did. It's sad to see you, kinda parting due to that, but i respect that. I hope you come back one day when the game is out, if you decide on buy it, to talk to us about your impressions. I would be eager to know them after such disappointment. I hope we get to see you here once in a while, actually. After all, this community is still great, even if you got disapppinted by what happened Yeah, I agree with this. And even though I haven't lost faith in the project, I do understand how ZeroSbr feels. Many Vita backers were the most loyal and enthusiastic members of our community, and it's a shame to see them hard done by like this. I will repeat what I mentioned earlier, though--the delay and the dropped port are a terrible one-two punch, but there's also another saying: "It's darkest before dawn." It may be the case that a few months could be just what IGA needs to clear up all the complaints and implement all the suggestions people had for the demo, which will result in a game that succeeds or even surpasses SoTN. Although it may be hard to believe now, and it would be a cold comfort to folks like Zero, if in a few months time we've received a truly fantastic game, one which recaptures the magic of the old ones, it may be at least some recompense for all the stress and trouble they've endured. And if it truly is the case and the game is so good it wins back even disappointed Vita fans, then folks like Zero will be welcome to return here and enjoy it with the rest of us. So in the meantime, I wish Zero and any others who may have refunded the best of luck wherever they go from here.
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Post by saberwolf94 on Aug 21, 2018 22:28:21 GMT -6
Isn't this how porting works though? Am no professional but doesn't the game get finished entirely first and then the porting happens? Yeah, usually. But I've worked on projects where the weekly build was sent to Asia for a different team to add Asian-market specific features to the game. There was also a port for the Xperia Play being developed at one point. But both of these were done very close to the end of development and any changes were usually just bug fixes or cosmetic adjustments. When it came to porting between handheld and desktop versions though, that was a complete fork of the project done after the main version was completed. I thought so, maybe that's why they're thinking it's too much trouble at this point.
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Post by demiurgos on Aug 22, 2018 3:33:34 GMT -6
It seems like I'll be sitting with two switch copies, then... as I want the game for a non disc based portable system. Now I somehow need to find the funds to buy a switch. Not very convenient, but at least I'll (eventually?) be able to play the game on a Nintendo system.
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Post by spideryfingers on Aug 22, 2018 16:03:56 GMT -6
I've always favoured the handheld because it ties in seamlessly into my lifestyle. My PS Vita was actually a birthday gift that my brother bought me a few years ago. While the games for this underrated yet beautiful handheld were somewhat patchy, my general impression was that platformers seemed tailor-made for it. I find it deeply saddening that more wasn't done by Sony to maintain standards to keep the Vita afloat. Part of me was hoping that Bloodstained was gonna be the game to revitalize or provide some kind of lifeline for the Vita My only other option now is to buy a Nintendo Switch. However, I'm having grave doubts about the games that Nintendo produce
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Post by ovenkitty on Aug 22, 2018 17:19:34 GMT -6
I'd imagine they can't do it digitally because of Sony. There are, possibly, servers specifically for the Vita. Some that hold the games and some that allow for online play to be possible. Perhaps others that perform other tasks aside from login authentication and security. So it would be Sony's call to stop spending money on these servers and this would be why digital release isn't a possibility. Perhaps I should set the record straight, the Vita store is not going anywhere. People will still be able to bring indie games to it, SONY will simply not make any more physical cards. You can still buy PSP & PS1 games for your PSP from your PS3, Mac or PC. Only reason the PSP store is gone is because it was using a different architecture then the PS3, Vita and PS4 store, so there was no reason to keep it just for the PSP. So far, SONY wins over Nintendo when it comes to keeping digital goods alive for new sales and re-downloads. As for the online play aspect, yes, this will eventually be removed for both Vita and PS3. The solution to all of this was simple: 1- Don't include online play on the Vita, who cares, it's a handheld that people mostly play offline anyway 2- Release the game digitally for backers and future buyers 3- Pre-order physical copies from SONY for backers before the Vita order deadline (about 4000 should have done the trick) But as I stated earlier, I'm willing to bet that they never started development on it. Pretty sure they were just biting their time to see where the Vita would be in a few years before dropping it, they just used their stated reasons as an excuse to drop a port. Ah Kickstarter, the only time Bait & Switch can be legal. You can actually still use the PSP store. The graphcs don't all display, but you can search content and download games straight off of your PSP.
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Post by akahige on Aug 23, 2018 16:41:37 GMT -6
I too was a Vita backer. Believe It or not, It's the only system I have which could play the game.
... To be completely honest, i don't own a Vita, but a PSTV. Talk about niche!
So yeah... I really hoped in it. Now I'll have to buy new hardware Just for this game.
I cannot really condemn them, though. 2015 and 2016 were one thing. 2018 is another matter. Surely... Retro city rampage did receive a PSP release years after the console was in pure retrogaming class. And its sequel is getting a physical vita release... But let's be honest here, I backed this knowing that IGA is not this type of guy. I mean, if this was his line of reasoning to begin with, we wouldn't have seen the stubborn Unreal engine mentality. If he was that kind of guy, bloodstained would be a lot more similar to shovel knight i guess.
But all this is not even the First of my concerns... They released a demo, and disappointment flocked about actual graphics downgrade. What i mean is: they are having some serious trouble going on, and bigger fishes to fry.
I wanted vita? Sure. But it's four years and demo still get lots of criticism, so I'll settle for much less: Just pray that the game is eventually released at some point, and is good. I'd focus on that.
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Post by akahige on Aug 23, 2018 17:00:59 GMT -6
I'll add this: of course Armature was out of the picture very soon, and of course there's not a single line of code for the vita or wiiu versions anywhere, let alone screenshots.
It tantamounts to vapourware, in effect. Sony made that announcement on vita cards and they jumped over It, It was just too tempting. I can't really blame them for this. In fact, i had lost hopes in a Vita release at the end of last year. What i found especially cruel was when they sent out the "survey deadline" months ago. That was supposed to be a set milestone, and It still had all the selectable Vita options in it. I blame that survey to deceive me into believing that, maybe, after all, they would have seen through the end no matter what, despite how unreasonable It did sound.
Instead, a couple months of seaside nice weather holidays and -bam- "port cancelled due to bad evil sony", yeah... It would have been more honorable to say things straight before the survey. That hurts.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Aug 23, 2018 21:04:19 GMT -6
I can see where you're coming from with that logic akahige, but I don't believe it is correct. The first point I want to address is that we haven't seen screen shots specific to any console, so that situation isn't unique to the Vita. The most seen is a gif Angel put up a while back of a Switch with the title screen, but coming from a similar viewpoint to yours, that would only prove it runs the title screen ;p Anyway, they have talked previously about the Vita version, and even way back to October 2017 I put together a post about a couple of those. bloodstainedfanforums.com/post/48479There were/have been others, but randomly sparsed in interviews etc. Those two probably would be most topical for you anyway. In the AppTrigger interview's context specifically, this is how it goes - This was E3 2017. As you can see, he wasn't even pointedly asked about the Vita's development, but shifted to it purposely to mention how it had been going so far. Couple that with Mana's post, and I would not say "Vita never existed" unless I was a firm believer that they are both outright liars for no reason, which I know them to not be.
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