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Post by alialkhiro on Jul 17, 2015 5:49:08 GMT -6
I love puzzles but there is an inherent flaw in their concept that makes a good implementation of them very hard. If the puzzle is too easy it feels like an insult to the player's intelligence and no satisfaction is felt from solving it. If the puzzle is too difficult it feels like a time waste and the player will use the internet to find the solution without any satisfaction from the experience. Striking that middle ground when the player base is so large and their mental power varies so much is very difficult. Still, I would like to find documents with cryptic instructions on finding certain secrets or clues in item descriptions. I would love to see a huge uproar on the net over a very hard puzzle and everyone searching for the solution. And it is always fun when you tell your friend about the secret that you found and they missed. I love it when my attention to the small details is rewarded. And there are also those funny secrets like:  |
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Post by solomon on Jul 17, 2015 6:00:41 GMT -6
I love puzzles but there is an inherent flaw in their concept that makes a good implementation of them very hard. If the puzzle is too easy it feels like an insult to the player's intelligence and no satisfaction is felt from solving it. If the puzzle is too difficult it feels like a time waste and the player will use the internet to find the solution without any satisfaction from the experience. Striking that middle ground when the player base is so large and their mental power varies so much is very difficult. Still, I would like to find documents with cryptic instructions on finding certain secrets or clues in item descriptions. I would love to see a huge uproar on the net over a very hard puzzle and everyone searching for the solution. And it is always fun when you tell your friend about the secret that you found and they missed. I love it when my attention to the small details is rewarded. And there are also those funny secrets like: I always wondered why there were chicken and turkey in the walls in the first CV  |
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Motoko
Shardbinder
[TI0]Care to find out?
Posts: 1,082
inherit
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Motoko
[TI0]Care to find out?
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Post by Motoko on Jul 17, 2015 7:55:10 GMT -6
I love puzzles but there is an inherent flaw in their concept that makes a good implementation of them very hard. If the puzzle is too easy it feels like an insult to the player's intelligence and no satisfaction is felt from solving it. If the puzzle is too difficult it feels like a time waste and the player will use the internet to find the solution without any satisfaction from the experience. Striking that middle ground when the player base is so large and their mental power varies so much is very difficult. Still, I would like to find documents with cryptic instructions on finding certain secrets or clues in item descriptions. I would love to see a huge uproar on the net over a very hard puzzle and everyone searching for the solution. And it is always fun when you tell your friend about the secret that you found and they missed. I love it when my attention to the small details is rewarded. And there are also those funny secrets like: LOL! Hahahahaha Love it ≡^ˇ^≡ |
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緋月エリ
Ancient Legion 
[TI2] アルカード好き
Posts: 243
inherit
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0
Feb 14, 2018 15:32:11 GMT -6
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緋月エリ
[TI2] アルカード好き
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Post by 緋月エリ on Jul 17, 2015 8:40:02 GMT -6
I myself love puzzles, that doesn't mean I like puzzles in every game I play. They have to be clever, non-repetitive and have some meaning to why they exist. Certainly puzzles do come in mind when thinking about castles. So maybe they can have some hidden rooms that need puzzle solving. But the game has to make it clear that you need to solve some kind of puzzle to progress or to open a secret passage, not have you running around like a fool thinking there is something hidden. For example in SotN there is a confession room, I don't know if there is any meaning to it, since I am still in my first playthrough, but I spent hours thinking it was a puzzle of some kind, I still think I was missing something, and every once in a while I went back to see if I can make anything in it. I am going to be eaten alive I am criticising SotN. Just remember I have not played it before so I have no nostalgia for it. No, no, it's all good!! As I had said before, puzzles have to be intuitive to keep the game flowing, so we're not just sitting there for hours trying solve a puzzle, or something that is actually not a puzzle at all. If something is in fact a puzzle, there should be some indicator. Like Miriam thinking "something seems out of place"<-- something along those lines, so we KNOW it is something we have to solve. PS: Quattro ~<3 |
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kikumarukike
The Red Comet
Ancient Legion
[TI2]Hey Big Zam!
Posts: 51
inherit
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Jul 22, 2015 10:02:06 GMT -6
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kikumarukike
[TI2]Hey Big Zam!
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Post by kikumarukike on Jul 17, 2015 10:09:14 GMT -6
Yeah, I hate when that happens that I am sitting around thinking how to solve something that is not there.
You are right, some indication that something is odd, I like the idea of Miriam thinking to herself. That's totally I thing i'd like to see
I have found some people in this forum that know my avatar or some reference that I make. That makes me happy. And totally Quattro is by far the best mobile suit pilot.
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緋月エリ
Ancient Legion
[TI2] アルカード好き
Posts: 243
inherit
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0
Feb 14, 2018 15:32:11 GMT -6
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緋月エリ
[TI2] アルカード好き
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Jun 12, 2015 12:20:58 GMT -6
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Post by 緋月エリ on Jul 17, 2015 10:39:20 GMT -6
Yeah, I hate when that happens that I am sitting around thinking how to solve something that is not there. You are right, some indication that something is odd, I like the idea of Miriam thinking to herself. That's totally I thing i'd like to see I have found some people in this forum that know my avatar or some reference that I make. That makes me happy. And totally Quattro is by far the best mobile suit pilot. Heh heh, Quattro is one of my favourites!! =) I think in SoTN, Alucard's demon familiar does something similar: he tells Alucard that there is a switch. Maybe Miriam's familiar would tell her that a puzzle in the vicinity. |
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kikumarukike
The Red Comet
Ancient Legion
[TI2]Hey Big Zam!
Posts: 51
inherit
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kikumarukike
[TI2]Hey Big Zam!
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Post by kikumarukike on Jul 17, 2015 12:14:00 GMT -6
Heh heh, Quattro is one of my favourites!! =) I think in SoTN, Alucard's demon familiar does something similar: he tells Alucard that there is a switch. Maybe Miriam's familiar would tell her that a puzzle in the vicinity. I didn't know, but I was thinking something more like a monologue. The familiar idea is good though. |
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Post by alialkhiro on Jul 17, 2015 15:51:07 GMT -6
I think the fairy familiar in SotN said something like "There's something funny about this wall." to reveal secret walls and had more puzzle solving abilities in Curse of Darkness.
I hope they keep something like that in Bloodstained but make the fairy's final form reveal secrets and put that at late game so that completionists can back track for secrets.
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bloodstainedmiriam
Ancient Legion
[TI0]Hear me, Dracula! I am the morning sun coming to vanquish this horrible night!
Posts: 318
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bloodstainedmiriam
[TI0]Hear me, Dracula! I am the morning sun coming to vanquish this horrible night!
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Post by bloodstainedmiriam on Jul 17, 2015 15:55:20 GMT -6
I support puzzles in the game, as long as they aren't too vague in what they expect you to do. I don't want to endlessly run around the castle to try and solve a single puzzle. Keeping it basic is better I think
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ghaleon
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Post by ghaleon on Jul 17, 2015 20:21:03 GMT -6
'push the block', 'find the correct switch pattern', etc type puzzles generally don't interest me much, and I wouldn't want to really have them if I had a choice. But I will admit there was ONE game where they kinda appealed to me for some reason. Lufia 2: rise of the sinistrals (on the SNES, not that god-awful DS parod.... oh.. 'remake').
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lod7
New Blood
Posts: 87
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Apr 3, 2018 9:55:35 GMT -6
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Post by lod7 on Jul 17, 2015 20:33:40 GMT -6
I don't know if it is really considered a puzzle but in SotN the entire sequence of events that led you to the inverted castle. Finding the Sonar, spike boots, silver ring, gold ring, and the magical glasses.
Also another one was the powers of dracula to access the true ending in Aria of sorrow.
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Post by ghaleon on Jul 17, 2015 22:22:56 GMT -6
SoTn's 'find the inverted castle' puzzle wasn't much more than explore every room in the castle and you'll find it eventually was it? The only thing about it that might be puzzling that I can think of is finding maria in that not-inverted dracula room. IIRC the room was just kinda empty if you go there without all the prerequisites, and somehow you're supposed to magically know to go there after obtaining certain items. Maybe I'm wrong. But that's not really good puzzle design if I'm right IMO.
I mean encouraging the player to explore as much as possible and get key items to unlock somethign isn't bad, but knowing you have to goto an arbitrary room you likely went to before that had no clues about going there that was empty before isn't great.
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Thomas
Ancient Legion
[TI0] Real Time VFX all day long!
Posts: 370
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0
May 12, 2022 10:35:19 GMT -6
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Thomas
[TI0] Real Time VFX all day long!
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Post by Thomas on Jul 18, 2015 4:29:23 GMT -6
SotN had one puzzled IMO that even recently stumped me until I remembered, and that is the key to opening the locked magical blue doors... I think it's an example of a poor puzzle instead of the kind we should hope for.
They're is no logical reason to the solution other than "making you use the store". Which you never need to do again after that, but also it's very easy to overlook the required item the first time you visit. I've spent far too long backtracking looking for the next open path before returning to the store and having that "oohhh stupid me" moment.
Hopefully Bloodstained has better puzzles.
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Maker
Loyal Familiar
[TI1]
Posts: 109
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Jun 2, 2018 15:27:49 GMT -6
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Maker
[TI1]
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Jul 11, 2015 12:33:30 GMT -6
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Post by Maker on Jul 18, 2015 8:52:36 GMT -6
The store could be a place to throw stuff that got developed but never placed in game and could be unlocked in after a certain point as to not overpower something early on. No idea if it were the case with SotN but it certainly felt like that.
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lod7
New Blood
Posts: 87
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lod7
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Post by lod7 on Jul 18, 2015 9:35:38 GMT -6
Unless you glitch the game you can't get to the regular castle dracula room without obtaining the items I listed above in order. Maria will always be there.
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XombieMike
Administrator
Fifty Storms 
Posts: 4,009
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Nov 24, 2024 5:22:12 GMT -6
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Post by XombieMike on Jul 25, 2015 10:40:53 GMT -6
SotN did have puzzles, but they were subtle. The clock room required using or equipping certain items, as did an important boss battle. The hints for the puzzles were in the item descriptions. I think those would be good to have in Bloodstained, but perhaps not be so cryptic and chance some people not getting to play half the game.
There was this giant piano you could jump around on in one of the Sorrow games and I never figured out if you were to play a certain tune to unlock a secret. I think for the most part puzzles should be optional and rewards for completion should be non-critical items or simply hidden cool things.
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Post by nekurors on Jul 26, 2015 15:06:52 GMT -6
I just hope they have different dificult levels for them, easy and normal for required puzzles to complete the game, hard and v.hard for extras and secret areas, i am hoping for at least 1 v.hard and clever puzzle that could give you certain equipment/weapon and/or acess to secret areas, i mean i am sure there are people who appreciate a good puzzle, so to prevent people who dislike it it should be just for extras and secrets, it's fair.
I don't recall any REALLY hard puzzle from previous games, usually they are made for average people to complete (there are exceptions, but nothing particular hard), so i would like to see it on the game, at least 1.
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Rigel
Skull Knight
Loyal Familiar
Posts: 227
inherit
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Oct 7, 2017 9:30:22 GMT -6
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Rigel
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Post by Rigel on Jul 26, 2015 23:44:52 GMT -6
I think fast paced puzzles which doesnt break the exploration sense could work great, maybe one to open a secret passage to a secret area.
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Yakuza
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May 20, 2020 18:57:27 GMT -6
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Dragon_of_Dojima
[TI1]Rip and Tear
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Post by Dragon_of_Dojima on Aug 5, 2015 20:49:32 GMT -6
Puzzles, in my Igavania?! Well...call me Layton and consider those puzzles solved.  |
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