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Post by yulia11 on Jun 30, 2018 21:39:42 GMT -6
Think Alucard shield and that sword that was dropped in the reversed gallery in SOTN, red Monituar soul and Dracula combo in AOS, and many others that will obliterate bosses in seconds. They are more terrifying than backstep attack if everything connects.
Right now both bat and arrows are broken (got behind Zengetsu's back and shot 9 arrows at once, each dealing 34 damages) (poison Kurui and stinger add poison to arrow, I believe), though not everyone will grind that hard. (of course the cost could be rebalanced in the full game)
To those unaware of Alducard shield + shield rod, there is a spell that activates dealing 255 collision damage to whoever touches you, heals 8 health and 1 heart per tick, and grants 3 seconds of invincibility per tick while draining your mp. It will obliterate Dracula in a few seconds.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 1, 2018 0:13:18 GMT -6
You could do these threads with polls for ease of collecting data on it.
Me personally, I like strong options, but not per se broken ones.
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Post by caer on Jul 1, 2018 2:36:23 GMT -6
I like broken things, but they should only be available in the end-game or through unreasonable levels of early grinding. Having the broken things as a reward for meticulous exploration or grinding feels good, but it is very important not to allow players to ruin the game for themselves through the "optimal strategy" pattern (where you make use of the most powerful/easiest strategy available even if it makes the game less fun.)
For example, bat and arrow have really cool upgrade paths, and I like that they are in the game. But maybe higher upgrades should require end-game materials? Or maybe the mana cost should rise with each iteration, so you can't spam it until you have a really high mana pool? Or you could treat the upgrades as a utility upgrade in the beginning, more arrows but much less damage for each. Maybe let the damage come back with higher upgrade levels. Or some combination of the above.
Point is, early game balance is super important. Late-game balance is pretty important too, but end-game balance thrives on being able to find the really weird super powerful options.
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Post by freddythemonkey on Jul 1, 2018 3:35:16 GMT -6
I hate broken options unless they're acquired at the end of the game or as a reward for completion/bonus modes.
The red minotaur soul was truly broken only with the Chaos Ring and that worked fine.
Order of Ecclesia had the death ring/nitesco union combo but both were late game things and the ring added a risk that doesn't completely balance the benefits but makes it not 100% broken.
But Symphony is a terrible example of balancing. Even taking the Crissaegrim out of the picture, there are many options so incredibly stronger than everything else (cough cough shield rod) that it kills the weapon variety and it undermines the creativity in the special moves. Symphony has abysmal balancing and I really hate that part of it.
So I'm fine with such options im the very late game but balancing is important. Some shards here were way too powerful. Even just the Vepar shards does high damage for a completely affordable cost and it covers 85% of the screen. It's overpowered. Don't have very powerful stuff so early in the game.
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Post by Busterific on Jul 1, 2018 9:02:29 GMT -6
I'm wondering if the shard power scaling with your level to a degree would help with some of the excessively powerful shards.
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Post by ovenkitty on Jul 1, 2018 10:06:32 GMT -6
But Symphony is a terrible example of balancing. Even taking the Crissaegrim out of the picture, there are many options so incredibly stronger than everything else (cough cough shield rod) that it kills the weapon variety and it undermines the creativity in the special moves. Symphony has abysmal balancing and I really hate that part of it. This here. At least in subsequent games you didn't simply stumble upon OP weapons and techniques like in Sotn. I'm not overly worried about balancing for Rotn if IGA and co. continue trends from previous Vania installments.
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Post by saberwolf94 on Jul 1, 2018 12:13:15 GMT -6
If I get a super broken weapon like that I want to really earn it, but then there's the multiplayer stuff and competitive PVP perhaps, so maybe it's not a good idea.
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Post by Time 4 Tea on Jul 1, 2018 15:39:52 GMT -6
The "Claimh Solais" from Aria of Sorrow seemed just right in my opinion. It was very powerful with a wide arc but was balanced by being somewhat slow and you needed to find a secret area to claim it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 15:52:52 GMT -6
A part of me's tempted to say "absolutely no Crissaegrims," but then again, I would have never known the Crissaegrim even existed if I hadn't heard about it elsewhere, and even then, I've never done enough grinding to get one. I'd be lying if I said the existence of the Crissaegrim negatively impacted my experience.
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Post by yulia11 on Jul 1, 2018 17:37:00 GMT -6
A part of me's tempted to say "absolutely no Crissaegrims," but then again, I would have never known the Crissaegrim even existed if I hadn't heard about it elsewhere, and even then, I've never done enough grinding to get one. I'd be lying if I said the existence of the Crissaegrim negatively impacted my experience. Fought with Alucard set first. Then obliterated Dracula with the Crissaegrims once, then Alucard shield several times. Good thing it got nurfed in later games. Still broken with succubus soul in Aria of sorrow.
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Post by Nezuto on Jul 1, 2018 19:45:00 GMT -6
Personally, late game type of reward, as others have said. I really liked how Aria did with its 'broken balance' if that makes sense. I mean, there were things/areas you could access and gain some awesome stuff or certain gear, like Claimh, but you still had to earn nearly every bit of it.
I guess I'm trying to say, give us some neat broken stuff to toy with, but make us earn it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 7:52:59 GMT -6
Shield Rod and Power of the Sire/Duplicator (like tricks)! YES, PLEASE!!!
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Post by omega780 on Jul 5, 2018 15:50:37 GMT -6
I would love some broken abilities/mechanics/weapons which are unlocked after doing some harder modes. For example the max level 255 unlock in OoE. Its fun to get so overpowered that you can DESTROY screens of anything within seconds. I would like to see something similar to the affinities from OoE implemented so you would have incentives to use all sorts of abilities. Lots of enemies having shards and drops gives you incentives to murder anything you find. I would hope that beating harder modes would unlock higher caps on shard upgrades, so you can keep improving things (make higher item requirements per level so it gets harder and harder to upgrade).
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Cale
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Post by Cale on Jul 7, 2018 20:01:38 GMT -6
I would like to see broken items that are only acquired through inversely proportional means.
"Wow! That item attacks all enemies on screen at once? How get, bro!?"
"Ah, it was nothing, just had to beat the game at level 1 without being hit or saving the game."
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Post by sylver on Jul 8, 2018 3:29:33 GMT -6
Of course, gimme me the broken stuff! Crissaegrim ftw! That‘s the Stuff, which makes re-re-re-re-replaying worth it.
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Post by Astaroth on Jul 8, 2018 10:41:14 GMT -6
see heres the thing, i love all the op combos, and most of these are in the late game so thats fine (shield rod is i think the earliest and it has uses outside alucard shield), and duplicator/ring of varda is entirely a ng+ item, getting fist and mirror mail in sotn can be done early if you defeat a very powerful enemy and know the trick to get in the room (op super early game but its not gamebreaking), claimh is very well hidden and the rpg is a bossrush reward the shard system has way more potential to be early game breaking by upgrading a couple choice shards and farming said shard to 9 (why id suggest the team move shard delevelling from a lvl 9 only option to its own button, that gives the individual player more agency on their difficulty) the greatest thing i think about difficulty in IGAvanias is a large portion of that difficulty is choosable by the player through their actions, you dont get an op weapon and are then forced to use it, you can beat every IGA game naked using the weakest weapon, if we were to get a no xp item early in the game that would give us one more way to tailor that difficulty
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Post by neff on Jul 10, 2018 16:11:08 GMT -6
Ah...I wouldn't use them personally, but so long as it isn't the alucard shield rod combo or crissigrim I think it would be ok. Those were a whole 'nother level of busted...
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Post by Overlord on Jul 10, 2018 18:01:19 GMT -6
The "Claimh Solais" from Aria of Sorrow seemed just right in my opinion. It was very powerful with a wide arc but was balanced by being somewhat slow and you needed to find a secret area to claim it. It was slow in Dawn of Sorrow, but certainly not in Aria of Sorrow. That's a huge reason as to why it was so good.
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Post by yulia11 on Jul 10, 2018 21:01:04 GMT -6
The "Claimh Solais" from Aria of Sorrow seemed just right in my opinion. It was very powerful with a wide arc but was balanced by being somewhat slow and you needed to find a secret area to claim it. It was slow in Dawn of Sorrow, but certainly not in Aria of Sorrow. That's a huge reason as to why it was so good. Why did they change great sword animation?
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Post by Overlord on Jul 11, 2018 5:24:01 GMT -6
It was slow in Dawn of Sorrow, but certainly not in Aria of Sorrow. That's a huge reason as to why it was so good. Why did they change great sword animation? My guess is exactly because of the claimh solais. There wasn't much of a point in using anything else, as it was clearly the best weapon, so that was probably their way of balancing it.
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