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Post by Pure Miriam on Jun 3, 2018 3:21:54 GMT -6
I posted this at the OTHER THREAD but due to other discussions, it ended up vanishing in limbo. The thing is, since the reveal of the Shard System, the Effective Shard was never shown. We had examples of all Shard types, and at 2017 the sixth type of Shard was revealed, and still no example of the Effective Shard. To this day, we don't know how they are, how to use them and even what command you use for them. They were a complete mystery. After Update #68, i believe we finally have an answer. First, let's remember what the six types of Shards are, considering the examples we have so far: TRIGGER SHARD (RED): instant attacks and effects. Simple projectile magic and expy of sub-weapons. Summoned demons that instantly attacks and vanishes. EFFECTIVE SHARD (BLUE): unknown. DIRECTIONAL SHARD (PURPLE): magic and gimmicks capable of being aimed at a 360° angle. ENCHANT SHARD (YELLOW): passive effects and stats bonuses applied automatically by attaching a shard. FAMILIAR SHARD (GREEN): summoned demons that fight alongside Miriam. SKILL SHARD (WHITE): progression abilities, aimed towards the completion of the game.  Effective Shard? Now, let's think a bit about the new shard revealed, Detective Eye, pictured above. It doesn't seem to fit in all types we known so far: It can't be Trigger Shard, because all trigger shards so far has been "instant" effects and attacks. It isn't Directional Shard, you can clearly see it can't be aimed. It could be Enchant Shard, since Enchant Shard automatically works when you equip it, but i'm guessing Enchant Shards are more like stats bonuses and gameplay changes, without visual effects. It isn't a Familiar Shard, because, as far as we know, Familiars are the only Shard type whose name is the same of the demon itself. (Dullahammer Head demon gives the Familiar Shard named "Dullahammer Head"). Unless the demon is really called "Detective Eye" (a expy of Peeping Eye?) and the Blue Aura is actually the demon itself, maybe a ethereal creature that is amplyfing Miriam's visual capacities (that would be cool, actually, in concept). It isn't Skill Shard. I believe they are way more focused on game progress, such as Double Jump, High Jump and such. So, it could be Effective Shard. Most of us had guessed that Effective Shards would work by toggling effects or holding effects, a bit like Guardian Souls from Aria/Dawn of Sorrow. I may be wrong, but i believe we just saw the first Effective Shard revealed in the game. Any thoughts if i am right on that, and any thoughts over Shard system overall? |
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 3, 2018 3:24:21 GMT -6
I mentioned in Shoutbox but I do believe this to be the case.
It's what I assumed Effective Shards to be since the demo due to its blue color, and the red color matching Trigger Shard/Bullet Souls, yellow matching Enchant Shard/Enchanted Souls, and white/grey matching Skill Shards/Souls
Guardian Souls were blue and we haven't seen anything like Guardian Souls in the game yet, so I figured the blue Effective Shards were going to be the new Guardian Souls
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 3, 2018 17:06:07 GMT -6
I like your idea about the possibility of it being an Effective Shard.
However, I'd also like to post a reminder that the "Peeping Eye" Soul in both Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow was an Enchantment Soul. It had the same effect of passively identifying breakable walls.
Perhaps Effective Shards will indeed have passive effects, separating them from [almost-exclusively] stat boosts that Enchant Shards may provide. We shall see!
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 3, 2018 17:11:22 GMT -6
I still hope Effective is something else, like command moves or something. This seems pretty likely though.
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Post by lovelydumpling on Jun 3, 2018 17:16:55 GMT -6
I still hope Effective is something else, like command moves or something. This seems pretty likely though. Personally I'd prefer there to be a set of command moves completely independent of the Shard system. It doesn't make so much sense to me to "equip" a command move when one of the largest benefits to complicated inputs like command moves is that you can make many commands for different moves, a la Alucard's Spells. Having them restrained to an equip slot where you can only do one command at a time removes the benefit of being able to have multiple at your disposal at any time. |
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 3, 2018 18:55:35 GMT -6
I still hope Effective is something else, like command moves or something. This seems pretty likely though. Personally I'd prefer there to be a set of command moves completely independent of the Shard system. It doesn't make so much sense to me to "equip" a command move when one of the largest benefits to complicated inputs like command moves is that you can make many commands for different moves, a la Alucard's Spells. Having them restrained to an equip slot where you can only do one command at a time removes the benefit of being able to have multiple at your disposal at any time. I remember once suggesting that Effective Shard abilities could just be pulled off by holding Up + Attack (like the classic subweapon command in past 'vanias). If "Detective Eye" is an Effective Shard, and I miraculously turn out to be right about how they're executed... then I'd surmise that some Effective Shards are the "fire & forget" type. The rest could easily just be similar to Guardian Souls; either hold the button to keep it active... or tap once to activate (steadily draining MP), and tap again to dispel. |
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 3, 2018 19:00:42 GMT -6
I'd prefer them completely independent too, though granted we've not seen any of them yet and not thus far for sure any Effective shards, it was just me being hopeful that they were one and the same and a reason we'd not seen them. It would definitely make more sense for them to be independent too unless they were like the skill shards (always on unless toggled, i.e. relics).
Equipping one specifically would only make sense if that command overlapped with potentially other things or there were different categories.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 3, 2018 19:13:31 GMT -6
purifyweirdshard That reminds me of the "Seventh" Abilities, concepts of which were shown way back in Update #15. (EDIT: Now that I look back at it, the only one explicitly listed as a "seventh" ability is Voltic Chain.)^ Though I realize talking further about them would mean I'm veering off-topic. I do admit that I'd like to see some Shards have secret input commands, too.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jun 4, 2018 4:04:01 GMT -6
Yes, i do remember that Peeping Eye was a Enchant Soul, i just think that Detective Eye seems like it could be some kind of ON / OFF feature.
Imagine if it has a constant MP consumption? it would make more sense to be Effective and not Enchant, if i'm right on what i'm guessing.
Considering the main games where "let's take skills from enemies" concept worked (Aria / Dawn of Sorrow and Order of Ecclesia), the Shard system seems to be a greatly updated idea on such concept.
Aria and Dawn had Familiars stuck on the same slot as barriers / long lasting effects on Guardian Souls.
Dawn decided to put some progression abilities that originally where on Guardian or Enchant, inside Ability souls, to free such slots.
Order of Ecclesia returned with relics to free it's own Glyph slots from such progression abilities.
Bloodstained decided to create a dedicated slot only to familiars (The Familiar Shard) and basically has, at least four potential offensive slots at the same time (Trigger, Directional, Effective and Familiar).
Considering all that, it makes more sense to me that Effective Shard will be reserved to what Guardian Souls was on Aria / Dawn, since they have even more slots now to play around with such concepts.
About Command moves, i still believe they will be in the game, at some form, but completely separated from Shards (unless you have some special shards, Enchant, for instance, that changes or effects the use of command moves somehow).
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Post by Squirrel Taskmaster on Jun 4, 2018 9:48:39 GMT -6
Given the name and the screenshots, I'd say any sort of passive but not baked-in player modification is fair game. Showing cracked walls with the Eye on the one hand, while others might add on-hit effects to your attacks.
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